Post-Seconday Education

[Jay]

Re: RE: Post-Seconday Education

RB,

I'm certainly open to modifications but I'm sure you aware of the number of university grads in medicine, nursing and others that immediately leave the province upon graduation. I feel strongly that we need to do something to try to keep these young people here and help repay this province for the education that we all have paid for them.

This is how gullible we Canadians really are.

Think of the seriously unfair advantage you have as a med student. Canadian Government pays 75% of your education, you in turn move to the States and compete with ppl who actually have to pay for their education and reap the pay of an American doctor. Go figure. Easy way to fix it. Don't fund their education. They have entitlement to the loans but not the hand out. What are we doing paying for ppl's education when they will be earning 300 thousand a year when they are done? It’s like funding a lawyers education or a businessman’s education. I think they can afford it themselves.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Post-Seconday Education

RB,

I'm certainly open to modifications but I'm sure you aware of the number of university grads in medicine, nursing and others that immediately leave the province upon graduation. I feel strongly that we need to do something to try to keep these young people here and help repay this province for the education that we all have paid for them.

This is how gullible we Canadians really are.

Think of the seriously unfair advantage you have as a med student. Canadian Government pays 75% of your education, you in turn move to the States and compete with ppl who actually have to pay for their education and reap the pay of an American doctor. Go figure. Easy way to fix it. Don't fund their education. They have entitlement to the loans but not the hand out. What are we doing paying for ppl's education when they will be earning 300 thousand a year when they are done? It’s like funding a lawyers education or a businessman’s education. I think they can afford it themselves.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Post-Seconday Education

RB,

I'm certainly open to modifications but I'm sure you aware of the number of university grads in medicine, nursing and others that immediately leave the province upon graduation. I feel strongly that we need to do something to try to keep these young people here and help repay this province for the education that we all have paid for them.

This is how gullible we Canadians really are.

Think of the seriously unfair advantage you have as a med student. Canadian Government pays 75% of your education, you in turn move to the States and compete with ppl who actually have to pay for their education and reap the pay of an American doctor. Go figure. Easy way to fix it. Don't fund their education. They have entitlement to the loans but not the hand out. What are we doing paying for ppl's education when they will be earning 300 thousand a year when they are done? It’s like funding a lawyers education or a businessman’s education. I think they can afford it themselves.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Both are choices ppl make both are self imposed. It’s simple.

No it isn't simple. That $50k SUV you drive to get your groceries does nothing to further society, in fact it causes harm. That $50k education in science could well serve to mitigate the damage caused by the SUV though. The person with that education can then pay taxes, educate others, buy a smart car, vote for a government that doesn't put a high school drop out in charge of education, and just generally make a positive contribution to society. Understand yet?

They can get an education, they can just stop wining about it while they do it, and pay for it themselves to boot.

We've seen, throughout history, that when education has to be paid for by the student fewer people get educated. Those that do get educated tend to wealthy. You can try to deny the lessons of history, but your denials won't change fact.

Of coarse we need these ppl, and I doubt under any system they would just disappear. We just don't need to have the system the way it is.

Doubt all you want. If the cost of the education exceeds the ability to pay for that education, then people will not enter those professions.

I don't fall for it. Soon ppl like me will be considered insane because we just don't understand the cause of the common good.

I already consider people like you to be insane.

I suppose you really mean “stealing away from ppl the tools they need to succeed in life would go so far to curing the problems we radical left types have with freedom and self determination."

No, I mean exactly what I said. An education is a tool that allows people to earn a living. In today's economy an education is more critical than ever. We already have people not going to university because they cannot afford it. They end up in low-paying jobs or on social assistance. Then people like you bitch about them and call them lazy.

No they should send in an auditor. The waste in the Ed system in Ontario is beyond belief.

And privatising it would solve that how, exactly?

 

[Reverend Blair]

Both are choices ppl make both are self imposed. It’s simple.

No it isn't simple. That $50k SUV you drive to get your groceries does nothing to further society, in fact it causes harm. That $50k education in science could well serve to mitigate the damage caused by the SUV though. The person with that education can then pay taxes, educate others, buy a smart car, vote for a government that doesn't put a high school drop out in charge of education, and just generally make a positive contribution to society. Understand yet?

They can get an education, they can just stop wining about it while they do it, and pay for it themselves to boot.

We've seen, throughout history, that when education has to be paid for by the student fewer people get educated. Those that do get educated tend to wealthy. You can try to deny the lessons of history, but your denials won't change fact.

Of coarse we need these ppl, and I doubt under any system they would just disappear. We just don't need to have the system the way it is.

Doubt all you want. If the cost of the education exceeds the ability to pay for that education, then people will not enter those professions.

I don't fall for it. Soon ppl like me will be considered insane because we just don't understand the cause of the common good.

I already consider people like you to be insane.

I suppose you really mean “stealing away from ppl the tools they need to succeed in life would go so far to curing the problems we radical left types have with freedom and self determination."

No, I mean exactly what I said. An education is a tool that allows people to earn a living. In today's economy an education is more critical than ever. We already have people not going to university because they cannot afford it. They end up in low-paying jobs or on social assistance. Then people like you bitch about them and call them lazy.

No they should send in an auditor. The waste in the Ed system in Ontario is beyond belief.

And privatising it would solve that how, exactly?

 

[Reverend Blair]

Both are choices ppl make both are self imposed. It’s simple.

No it isn't simple. That $50k SUV you drive to get your groceries does nothing to further society, in fact it causes harm. That $50k education in science could well serve to mitigate the damage caused by the SUV though. The person with that education can then pay taxes, educate others, buy a smart car, vote for a government that doesn't put a high school drop out in charge of education, and just generally make a positive contribution to society. Understand yet?

They can get an education, they can just stop wining about it while they do it, and pay for it themselves to boot.

We've seen, throughout history, that when education has to be paid for by the student fewer people get educated. Those that do get educated tend to wealthy. You can try to deny the lessons of history, but your denials won't change fact.

Of coarse we need these ppl, and I doubt under any system they would just disappear. We just don't need to have the system the way it is.

Doubt all you want. If the cost of the education exceeds the ability to pay for that education, then people will not enter those professions.

I don't fall for it. Soon ppl like me will be considered insane because we just don't understand the cause of the common good.

I already consider people like you to be insane.

I suppose you really mean “stealing away from ppl the tools they need to succeed in life would go so far to curing the problems we radical left types have with freedom and self determination."

No, I mean exactly what I said. An education is a tool that allows people to earn a living. In today's economy an education is more critical than ever. We already have people not going to university because they cannot afford it. They end up in low-paying jobs or on social assistance. Then people like you bitch about them and call them lazy.

No they should send in an auditor. The waste in the Ed system in Ontario is beyond belief.

And privatising it would solve that how, exactly?

 

[Jay]

No it isn't simple. That $50k SUV you drive to get your groceries does nothing to further society, in fact it causes harm. That $50k education in science could well serve to mitigate the damage caused by the SUV though.

I don't drive a 50$k SUV. We drive a 2001 Chrysler Seabring that I bought second hand for $14k. It had under 45K on it and I considered it a hell of a deal. This car does lots to further society. It takes my wife out of the city thirty minutes to teach English at a high school. It's broader and I feel a lot better knowing she's in that rather than some little Civic or something. This is me doing the responsibility part that you suggest ppl like me don't do. You just have an (judgmental) image of ppl like me; we all have earth-destroying machines we carry around with us. We don't. Funny though I see lots of my wife's teacher friends have them...their lefties though, so it's probably OK.

That $50k YOU would spend on education is a great idea. I wish you all the luck with YOUR $50k, not mine. I wish for you to leave my $50k with me and I might do something similar with it, but thanks for asking. I have all faith that YOUR $50k, spent on science education for YOUR children will produce Chrysler Seabrings of a far superior standard than we have today. I might buy one. Understand yet?

The person with that education can then pay taxes, educate others, buy a smart car, vote for a government that doesn't put a high school drop out in charge of education, and just generally make a positive contribution to society. Understand yet?

The person who has that education (your child) can do what ever their heart’s desire, and they can vote for who ever they want to.

As for the high school drop out comment, I wonder how much faith do you really put into that document anyway? Have you talked to many high school grads lately? The document is a formality.

We've seen, throughout history, that when education has to be paid for by the student fewer people get educated. Those that do get educated tend to wealthy. You can try to deny the lessons of history, but your denials won't change fact.

I'm not denying anything. I fully appreciate the fact that if you have no money, you can't afford an education. Further education is then reserved for the ppl who have means to obtain one.

It is a simple matter of priorities and responsibility.
First of all parents who have children need to do so in proportion to their means.
Second they need to invest in their children’s futures.
Thirdly parents and children have to realize a practical path for themselves, and be prepared to pay for it through loans, jobs, scholarships etc. Simple.

By artificially holding the market value for a degree much lower than its worth isn't providing a means to obtaining the degree, it is allowing for less practicality in the system. I've heard plenty of times" there are ppl in university who shouldn't be there". These ppl are offered something that they don't need, an almost free university education and they take it (and they don’t do well). They need to go to collage. A far cheaper alternative to the almighty university and a very good investment. It's not uncommon to pay say $25k (I think its way cheaper than that) to be an electrician and walk out of school into a trades job that pays $30/hour to start. It’s a good idea and you don’t need to know a thing about Shakespeare.

Or perhaps get a philosophy degree paid for by the gracious ppl of Ontario and cause shit in the political field all your life, on the taxpayer’s bill.

Doubt all you want. If the cost of the education exceeds the ability to pay for that education, then people will not enter those professions.

As long as loans and investment plans are available ppl will get into these professions, and they always will.
All ppl really need is a solid loans and investment plan. Accessibility to loans and creating special investment policies should be were the government plays a key role.
Not funding it.

I already consider people like you to be insane.

And I suppose that’s why left wing radicals like you’re self don’t get elected. When they do lie and cheat their way to power, they kill millions of ppl, or they turn out like Cuba. Lets not get nasty.

And privatizing it would solve that how, exactly?

Somehow I don't think I have to expound to you the inherent qualities of the free enterprise system.

Allowing governments the ability to waste money and create debt over systems they have no business performing (like running universities) leads to chaos. This debt should be of the consumer kind, not the public. The sort of debt that the Ontario government is carrying is unstable. In Ontario especially, provincial debts can make and break the value of the Loonie. The Ontario government’s annual budget is now almost half consumed by health care. How much more can we take at the provincial level?

The improved efficiency of a system that allows for consumers to control the price of education and what curriculum is offered, (rather than it hidden in government budgets), will provide for much needed capital. Ever worked with a university around budget time? We have a nice one here In London. Just the money wasted on computer products spent to maximize budget allowances and forecasts for departments is incredible. Nobody gives a shit; it’s government money. It’s kind of like insurance money. People aren’t to stingy when they’re spending it.

There is no accountability to the consumer with the current system.

The devalued degree is just that; devalued. The current market conditions make it far more worthwhile to fart around in university. A lot more ppl should be in collages pursuing trades careers. It is a known problem in Ontario that the government spills far more money into the universities coffers per capita, then the collages. Politics has far more at stake in a university setting, these ppl will probably be working for the government in the near future, where as collage ppl are more likely to pursue fields where politics isn’t a primary concern. In all I mean the government is meddling with the strings it shouldn’t be using.
I say the socialists need to hide in those government budgets.

Socialism of this sort my have had its time in a young fledgling Ontario. Same for other Socialist aspects of Canada, but gone are the days of ppl can’t afford education of there own means. It is now political and must stop.

 

[Jay]

No it isn't simple. That $50k SUV you drive to get your groceries does nothing to further society, in fact it causes harm. That $50k education in science could well serve to mitigate the damage caused by the SUV though.

I don't drive a 50$k SUV. We drive a 2001 Chrysler Seabring that I bought second hand for $14k. It had under 45K on it and I considered it a hell of a deal. This car does lots to further society. It takes my wife out of the city thirty minutes to teach English at a high school. It's broader and I feel a lot better knowing she's in that rather than some little Civic or something. This is me doing the responsibility part that you suggest ppl like me don't do. You just have an (judgmental) image of ppl like me; we all have earth-destroying machines we carry around with us. We don't. Funny though I see lots of my wife's teacher friends have them...their lefties though, so it's probably OK.

That $50k YOU would spend on education is a great idea. I wish you all the luck with YOUR $50k, not mine. I wish for you to leave my $50k with me and I might do something similar with it, but thanks for asking. I have all faith that YOUR $50k, spent on science education for YOUR children will produce Chrysler Seabrings of a far superior standard than we have today. I might buy one. Understand yet?

The person with that education can then pay taxes, educate others, buy a smart car, vote for a government that doesn't put a high school drop out in charge of education, and just generally make a positive contribution to society. Understand yet?

The person who has that education (your child) can do what ever their heart’s desire, and they can vote for who ever they want to.

As for the high school drop out comment, I wonder how much faith do you really put into that document anyway? Have you talked to many high school grads lately? The document is a formality.

We've seen, throughout history, that when education has to be paid for by the student fewer people get educated. Those that do get educated tend to wealthy. You can try to deny the lessons of history, but your denials won't change fact.

I'm not denying anything. I fully appreciate the fact that if you have no money, you can't afford an education. Further education is then reserved for the ppl who have means to obtain one.

It is a simple matter of priorities and responsibility.
First of all parents who have children need to do so in proportion to their means.
Second they need to invest in their children’s futures.
Thirdly parents and children have to realize a practical path for themselves, and be prepared to pay for it through loans, jobs, scholarships etc. Simple.

By artificially holding the market value for a degree much lower than its worth isn't providing a means to obtaining the degree, it is allowing for less practicality in the system. I've heard plenty of times" there are ppl in university who shouldn't be there". These ppl are offered something that they don't need, an almost free university education and they take it (and they don’t do well). They need to go to collage. A far cheaper alternative to the almighty university and a very good investment. It's not uncommon to pay say $25k (I think its way cheaper than that) to be an electrician and walk out of school into a trades job that pays $30/hour to start. It’s a good idea and you don’t need to know a thing about Shakespeare.

Or perhaps get a philosophy degree paid for by the gracious ppl of Ontario and cause shit in the political field all your life, on the taxpayer’s bill.

Doubt all you want. If the cost of the education exceeds the ability to pay for that education, then people will not enter those professions.

As long as loans and investment plans are available ppl will get into these professions, and they always will.
All ppl really need is a solid loans and investment plan. Accessibility to loans and creating special investment policies should be were the government plays a key role.
Not funding it.

I already consider people like you to be insane.

And I suppose that’s why left wing radicals like you’re self don’t get elected. When they do lie and cheat their way to power, they kill millions of ppl, or they turn out like Cuba. Lets not get nasty.

And privatizing it would solve that how, exactly?

Somehow I don't think I have to expound to you the inherent qualities of the free enterprise system.

Allowing governments the ability to waste money and create debt over systems they have no business performing (like running universities) leads to chaos. This debt should be of the consumer kind, not the public. The sort of debt that the Ontario government is carrying is unstable. In Ontario especially, provincial debts can make and break the value of the Loonie. The Ontario government’s annual budget is now almost half consumed by health care. How much more can we take at the provincial level?

The improved efficiency of a system that allows for consumers to control the price of education and what curriculum is offered, (rather than it hidden in government budgets), will provide for much needed capital. Ever worked with a university around budget time? We have a nice one here In London. Just the money wasted on computer products spent to maximize budget allowances and forecasts for departments is incredible. Nobody gives a shit; it’s government money. It’s kind of like insurance money. People aren’t to stingy when they’re spending it.

There is no accountability to the consumer with the current system.

The devalued degree is just that; devalued. The current market conditions make it far more worthwhile to fart around in university. A lot more ppl should be in collages pursuing trades careers. It is a known problem in Ontario that the government spills far more money into the universities coffers per capita, then the collages. Politics has far more at stake in a university setting, these ppl will probably be working for the government in the near future, where as collage ppl are more likely to pursue fields where politics isn’t a primary concern. In all I mean the government is meddling with the strings it shouldn’t be using.
I say the socialists need to hide in those government budgets.

Socialism of this sort my have had its time in a young fledgling Ontario. Same for other Socialist aspects of Canada, but gone are the days of ppl can’t afford education of there own means. It is now political and must stop.

 

[Jay]

No it isn't simple. That $50k SUV you drive to get your groceries does nothing to further society, in fact it causes harm. That $50k education in science could well serve to mitigate the damage caused by the SUV though.

I don't drive a 50$k SUV. We drive a 2001 Chrysler Seabring that I bought second hand for $14k. It had under 45K on it and I considered it a hell of a deal. This car does lots to further society. It takes my wife out of the city thirty minutes to teach English at a high school. It's broader and I feel a lot better knowing she's in that rather than some little Civic or something. This is me doing the responsibility part that you suggest ppl like me don't do. You just have an (judgmental) image of ppl like me; we all have earth-destroying machines we carry around with us. We don't. Funny though I see lots of my wife's teacher friends have them...their lefties though, so it's probably OK.

That $50k YOU would spend on education is a great idea. I wish you all the luck with YOUR $50k, not mine. I wish for you to leave my $50k with me and I might do something similar with it, but thanks for asking. I have all faith that YOUR $50k, spent on science education for YOUR children will produce Chrysler Seabrings of a far superior standard than we have today. I might buy one. Understand yet?

The person with that education can then pay taxes, educate others, buy a smart car, vote for a government that doesn't put a high school drop out in charge of education, and just generally make a positive contribution to society. Understand yet?

The person who has that education (your child) can do what ever their heart’s desire, and they can vote for who ever they want to.

As for the high school drop out comment, I wonder how much faith do you really put into that document anyway? Have you talked to many high school grads lately? The document is a formality.

We've seen, throughout history, that when education has to be paid for by the student fewer people get educated. Those that do get educated tend to wealthy. You can try to deny the lessons of history, but your denials won't change fact.

I'm not denying anything. I fully appreciate the fact that if you have no money, you can't afford an education. Further education is then reserved for the ppl who have means to obtain one.

It is a simple matter of priorities and responsibility.
First of all parents who have children need to do so in proportion to their means.
Second they need to invest in their children’s futures.
Thirdly parents and children have to realize a practical path for themselves, and be prepared to pay for it through loans, jobs, scholarships etc. Simple.

By artificially holding the market value for a degree much lower than its worth isn't providing a means to obtaining the degree, it is allowing for less practicality in the system. I've heard plenty of times" there are ppl in university who shouldn't be there". These ppl are offered something that they don't need, an almost free university education and they take it (and they don’t do well). They need to go to collage. A far cheaper alternative to the almighty university and a very good investment. It's not uncommon to pay say $25k (I think its way cheaper than that) to be an electrician and walk out of school into a trades job that pays $30/hour to start. It’s a good idea and you don’t need to know a thing about Shakespeare.

Or perhaps get a philosophy degree paid for by the gracious ppl of Ontario and cause shit in the political field all your life, on the taxpayer’s bill.

Doubt all you want. If the cost of the education exceeds the ability to pay for that education, then people will not enter those professions.

As long as loans and investment plans are available ppl will get into these professions, and they always will.
All ppl really need is a solid loans and investment plan. Accessibility to loans and creating special investment policies should be were the government plays a key role.
Not funding it.

I already consider people like you to be insane.

And I suppose that’s why left wing radicals like you’re self don’t get elected. When they do lie and cheat their way to power, they kill millions of ppl, or they turn out like Cuba. Lets not get nasty.

And privatizing it would solve that how, exactly?

Somehow I don't think I have to expound to you the inherent qualities of the free enterprise system.

Allowing governments the ability to waste money and create debt over systems they have no business performing (like running universities) leads to chaos. This debt should be of the consumer kind, not the public. The sort of debt that the Ontario government is carrying is unstable. In Ontario especially, provincial debts can make and break the value of the Loonie. The Ontario government’s annual budget is now almost half consumed by health care. How much more can we take at the provincial level?

The improved efficiency of a system that allows for consumers to control the price of education and what curriculum is offered, (rather than it hidden in government budgets), will provide for much needed capital. Ever worked with a university around budget time? We have a nice one here In London. Just the money wasted on computer products spent to maximize budget allowances and forecasts for departments is incredible. Nobody gives a shit; it’s government money. It’s kind of like insurance money. People aren’t to stingy when they’re spending it.

There is no accountability to the consumer with the current system.

The devalued degree is just that; devalued. The current market conditions make it far more worthwhile to fart around in university. A lot more ppl should be in collages pursuing trades careers. It is a known problem in Ontario that the government spills far more money into the universities coffers per capita, then the collages. Politics has far more at stake in a university setting, these ppl will probably be working for the government in the near future, where as collage ppl are more likely to pursue fields where politics isn’t a primary concern. In all I mean the government is meddling with the strings it shouldn’t be using.
I say the socialists need to hide in those government budgets.

Socialism of this sort my have had its time in a young fledgling Ontario. Same for other Socialist aspects of Canada, but gone are the days of ppl can’t afford education of there own means. It is now political and must stop.

 

[passpatoo]

Free post-secondary education is something that has made alot of sense to me for a long time. Seven years seems a long time though. I've thought that 4 years would be a more likely number. As far a requireing students to stay in the province that they recieved thier education in, good idea but waving that requirement if the job prospects for that profession a low may answer some of the problems. Sort of how it works with employment insurance, (in fact it could be tied in with it). If a person on EI want to apply for a job in another area, they are given assistance only if the area they are applying to has recognized shortage of that skill set being applied to.

I was in Mexico in the early 90's . At that time post secondary education was free. Student had to cover the costs of their own books, travel, housing etc. Having just graduated from college myself I was impressed that a third world country could provide this to thier citizens, and Canada, a first world country could not. Definitely shows where thier priorities were/are compared to ours.

But then again, I'm one of those radical leftie socialists! :lol:

 

[passpatoo]

Free post-secondary education is something that has made alot of sense to me for a long time. Seven years seems a long time though. I've thought that 4 years would be a more likely number. As far a requireing students to stay in the province that they recieved thier education in, good idea but waving that requirement if the job prospects for that profession a low may answer some of the problems. Sort of how it works with employment insurance, (in fact it could be tied in with it). If a person on EI want to apply for a job in another area, they are given assistance only if the area they are applying to has recognized shortage of that skill set being applied to.

I was in Mexico in the early 90's . At that time post secondary education was free. Student had to cover the costs of their own books, travel, housing etc. Having just graduated from college myself I was impressed that a third world country could provide this to thier citizens, and Canada, a first world country could not. Definitely shows where thier priorities were/are compared to ours.

But then again, I'm one of those radical leftie socialists! :lol:

 

[passpatoo]

Free post-secondary education is something that has made alot of sense to me for a long time. Seven years seems a long time though. I've thought that 4 years would be a more likely number. As far a requireing students to stay in the province that they recieved thier education in, good idea but waving that requirement if the job prospects for that profession a low may answer some of the problems. Sort of how it works with employment insurance, (in fact it could be tied in with it). If a person on EI want to apply for a job in another area, they are given assistance only if the area they are applying to has recognized shortage of that skill set being applied to.

I was in Mexico in the early 90's . At that time post secondary education was free. Student had to cover the costs of their own books, travel, housing etc. Having just graduated from college myself I was impressed that a third world country could provide this to thier citizens, and Canada, a first world country could not. Definitely shows where thier priorities were/are compared to ours.

But then again, I'm one of those radical leftie socialists! :lol:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Post-Seconday Educati

The free education system has served Mexico well, Passpatoo. Free and heavily subsidised education programs have actually worked well in every country they have been instituted in.

Where there are fewer subsidies, and the US is a good example of this, there are more social problems; less upward mobility; a wider gap between rich and poor; and more problems between the classes.

Jay, your hatred of anything you deem "socialist" makes it impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you about anything that the government funds. If you want to see the benefits of state-sponsored education you need only look at Europe or any of several Asian countries. If you want to see unfettered capitalism failing, you need only look south.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Post-Seconday Educati

The free education system has served Mexico well, Passpatoo. Free and heavily subsidised education programs have actually worked well in every country they have been instituted in.

Where there are fewer subsidies, and the US is a good example of this, there are more social problems; less upward mobility; a wider gap between rich and poor; and more problems between the classes.

Jay, your hatred of anything you deem "socialist" makes it impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you about anything that the government funds. If you want to see the benefits of state-sponsored education you need only look at Europe or any of several Asian countries. If you want to see unfettered capitalism failing, you need only look south.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Post-Seconday Educati

The free education system has served Mexico well, Passpatoo. Free and heavily subsidised education programs have actually worked well in every country they have been instituted in.

Where there are fewer subsidies, and the US is a good example of this, there are more social problems; less upward mobility; a wider gap between rich and poor; and more problems between the classes.

Jay, your hatred of anything you deem "socialist" makes it impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you about anything that the government funds. If you want to see the benefits of state-sponsored education you need only look at Europe or any of several Asian countries. If you want to see unfettered capitalism failing, you need only look south.

 

[Jay]

Yes Mexico is a great example of all things good. Just like Cuba. :roll: And America is “unfettered capitalism" sure of coarse it is.

RB your hatred of right wing thinkers is clear an obvious, you think their insane and I find it hard to have an intelligent conversation with ppl like that, but hey I'm Canadian; I'm up for a challenge. I can handle a little diversity in thinking. You can't. So be it.

The insistence that we need only look to other countries to see the benefits of socialism is a mute point. I don't care about other countries. Socialism works well for Germany, doesn’t work well for America its called diversity in the world. I'm not one of these Canadians who are doing every thing in their power to make us a European country. I don't want us to be the States either. I do believe their is more actual freedom there, but that’s a different thought.

I can understand your bowing out of this debate. You don't have a leg to stand on. The idea that everyone is rooked in Canada without the almighty socialist dollar is a myth that is fading fast, and the left is doing everything it can to solidify its strong hold on people’s wallets. They are patching up the old failing systems with more money (no new ideas) and introducing new ones (think child care) so when we finally decide to throw these chains off of us, they will be too heavy to do so completely. Simply put they are using scare tactics to develop funds they don’t need.

I hear far too often around here that the “radical right is pushing its morality on us.”

This isn’t true, because it is in fact the opposite that is true. It is the radical left that has pushed and is still pushing its morality on us. This actually has an effect on ppl and the economy, because the radical left doesn’t believe in things like private property and such. They believe first and for most my money is their money. They don’t believe in freedom and self determination, so they take my money without consideration of my children’s future. And that is the truth. So now that we all know this, stop blaming the radical right for your problems, when you the radical left create your own problems. And when people start to figure this out, don’t call them greedy for realizing their in charge of their own destiny, and not you.

 

[Jay]

Yes Mexico is a great example of all things good. Just like Cuba. :roll: And America is “unfettered capitalism" sure of coarse it is.

RB your hatred of right wing thinkers is clear an obvious, you think their insane and I find it hard to have an intelligent conversation with ppl like that, but hey I'm Canadian; I'm up for a challenge. I can handle a little diversity in thinking. You can't. So be it.

The insistence that we need only look to other countries to see the benefits of socialism is a mute point. I don't care about other countries. Socialism works well for Germany, doesn’t work well for America its called diversity in the world. I'm not one of these Canadians who are doing every thing in their power to make us a European country. I don't want us to be the States either. I do believe their is more actual freedom there, but that’s a different thought.

I can understand your bowing out of this debate. You don't have a leg to stand on. The idea that everyone is rooked in Canada without the almighty socialist dollar is a myth that is fading fast, and the left is doing everything it can to solidify its strong hold on people’s wallets. They are patching up the old failing systems with more money (no new ideas) and introducing new ones (think child care) so when we finally decide to throw these chains off of us, they will be too heavy to do so completely. Simply put they are using scare tactics to develop funds they don’t need.

I hear far too often around here that the “radical right is pushing its morality on us.”

This isn’t true, because it is in fact the opposite that is true. It is the radical left that has pushed and is still pushing its morality on us. This actually has an effect on ppl and the economy, because the radical left doesn’t believe in things like private property and such. They believe first and for most my money is their money. They don’t believe in freedom and self determination, so they take my money without consideration of my children’s future. And that is the truth. So now that we all know this, stop blaming the radical right for your problems, when you the radical left create your own problems. And when people start to figure this out, don’t call them greedy for realizing their in charge of their own destiny, and not you.

 

[Jay]

Yes Mexico is a great example of all things good. Just like Cuba. :roll: And America is “unfettered capitalism" sure of coarse it is.

RB your hatred of right wing thinkers is clear an obvious, you think their insane and I find it hard to have an intelligent conversation with ppl like that, but hey I'm Canadian; I'm up for a challenge. I can handle a little diversity in thinking. You can't. So be it.

The insistence that we need only look to other countries to see the benefits of socialism is a mute point. I don't care about other countries. Socialism works well for Germany, doesn’t work well for America its called diversity in the world. I'm not one of these Canadians who are doing every thing in their power to make us a European country. I don't want us to be the States either. I do believe their is more actual freedom there, but that’s a different thought.

I can understand your bowing out of this debate. You don't have a leg to stand on. The idea that everyone is rooked in Canada without the almighty socialist dollar is a myth that is fading fast, and the left is doing everything it can to solidify its strong hold on people’s wallets. They are patching up the old failing systems with more money (no new ideas) and introducing new ones (think child care) so when we finally decide to throw these chains off of us, they will be too heavy to do so completely. Simply put they are using scare tactics to develop funds they don’t need.

I hear far too often around here that the “radical right is pushing its morality on us.”

This isn’t true, because it is in fact the opposite that is true. It is the radical left that has pushed and is still pushing its morality on us. This actually has an effect on ppl and the economy, because the radical left doesn’t believe in things like private property and such. They believe first and for most my money is their money. They don’t believe in freedom and self determination, so they take my money without consideration of my children’s future. And that is the truth. So now that we all know this, stop blaming the radical right for your problems, when you the radical left create your own problems. And when people start to figure this out, don’t call them greedy for realizing their in charge of their own destiny, and not you.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Yes Mexico is a great example of all things good. Just like Cuba. Rolling Eyes And America is “unfettered capitalism" sure of coarse (sic) it is.

I never said that, Jay. Don't put words in mouth.

What I did say is that state-sponsored education has served Mexico well. It has, the evidence is there.

RB your hatred of right wing thinkers is clear an (sic) obvious, you think their (sic) insane and I find it hard to have an intelligent conversation with ppl like that, but hey I'm Canadian; I'm up for a challenge. I can handle a little diversity in thinking. You can't. So be it.

I can handle diversity just fine, Jay. I just get very tired of extremists who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

The insistence that we need only look to other countries to see the benefits of socialism is a mute (sic) point. I don't care about other countries.

It isn't a moot point though. We do not live in a vacuum and there is no reason why we shouldn't draw on successful models to improve our country.

Socialism works well for Germany, doesn’t work well for America its called diversity in the world.

Are you sure it doesn;t work well for America? It helped to pull the US out of the Great Depression, after all. It also led to the public school system, which was largely successful until recently and many of its failures can be traced to underfunding.

I'm not one of these Canadians who are doing every thing in their power to make us a European country. I don't want us to be the States either. I do believe their (sic) is more actual freedom there, but that’s a different thought.

I don't want us to be anything but Canada, Jay. Peace, order and good government. You know, our national motto. Most surveys show that Americans have less freedom than Canadians, btw. Less freedom of of the press, less freedom of expression, less chance of upward class mobility.

I can understand your bowing out of this debate.

I'm not bowing out at all. I am saying that if all you want to do is yell and scream that I'm stealing money from you, then you aren't worth talking to.

The idea that everyone is rooked in Canada without the almighty socialist dollar is a myth that is fading fast, and the left is doing everything it can to solidify its strong hold on people’s wallets.

Actually the country has moved to the left in last decade according to most polls. People want social programs, people want to address poverty. They see that there is a long-term benefit there. It is your ideology of greed that is falling out of favour because it is short sighted and we've been seeing it not work since about 1980.

I hear far too often around here that the “radical right is pushing its morality on us.”

This isn’t true, because it is in fact the opposite that is true. It is the radical left that has pushed and is still pushing its morality on us.

Not true at all.

This actually has an effect on ppl and the economy, because the radical left doesn’t believe in things like private property and such. They believe first and for most (sic) my money is their money.

Again, a complete and total fallacy. If you actually knew anything about the left you would understand that what you are saying makes absolutely no sense.

They don’t believe in freedom and self determination, so they take my money without consideration of my children’s future.

Actually it has consistently been the left, especially the NDP that has consistently stood up for individual rights and freedoms. Check Hansard from the last twenty years.

And that is the truth.

No, it's an outright, bald-faced lie. I'm surprised that you believe it and saddened that you would try to perpetuate it.

So now that we all know this, stop blaming the radical right for your problems, when you the radical left create your own problems.

We try to address problems, Jay. The radical right just tries to profit from them.

And when people start to figure this out, don’t call them greedy for realizing their in charge of their own destiny, and not you.

I call 'em as I see 'em. Anybody who wants to profit from society without giving anything back is greedy. I can't help that.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Yes Mexico is a great example of all things good. Just like Cuba. Rolling Eyes And America is “unfettered capitalism" sure of coarse (sic) it is.

I never said that, Jay. Don't put words in mouth.

What I did say is that state-sponsored education has served Mexico well. It has, the evidence is there.

RB your hatred of right wing thinkers is clear an (sic) obvious, you think their (sic) insane and I find it hard to have an intelligent conversation with ppl like that, but hey I'm Canadian; I'm up for a challenge. I can handle a little diversity in thinking. You can't. So be it.

I can handle diversity just fine, Jay. I just get very tired of extremists who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

The insistence that we need only look to other countries to see the benefits of socialism is a mute (sic) point. I don't care about other countries.

It isn't a moot point though. We do not live in a vacuum and there is no reason why we shouldn't draw on successful models to improve our country.

Socialism works well for Germany, doesn’t work well for America its called diversity in the world.

Are you sure it doesn;t work well for America? It helped to pull the US out of the Great Depression, after all. It also led to the public school system, which was largely successful until recently and many of its failures can be traced to underfunding.

I'm not one of these Canadians who are doing every thing in their power to make us a European country. I don't want us to be the States either. I do believe their (sic) is more actual freedom there, but that’s a different thought.

I don't want us to be anything but Canada, Jay. Peace, order and good government. You know, our national motto. Most surveys show that Americans have less freedom than Canadians, btw. Less freedom of of the press, less freedom of expression, less chance of upward class mobility.

I can understand your bowing out of this debate.

I'm not bowing out at all. I am saying that if all you want to do is yell and scream that I'm stealing money from you, then you aren't worth talking to.

The idea that everyone is rooked in Canada without the almighty socialist dollar is a myth that is fading fast, and the left is doing everything it can to solidify its strong hold on people’s wallets.

Actually the country has moved to the left in last decade according to most polls. People want social programs, people want to address poverty. They see that there is a long-term benefit there. It is your ideology of greed that is falling out of favour because it is short sighted and we've been seeing it not work since about 1980.

I hear far too often around here that the “radical right is pushing its morality on us.”

This isn’t true, because it is in fact the opposite that is true. It is the radical left that has pushed and is still pushing its morality on us.

Not true at all.

This actually has an effect on ppl and the economy, because the radical left doesn’t believe in things like private property and such. They believe first and for most (sic) my money is their money.

Again, a complete and total fallacy. If you actually knew anything about the left you would understand that what you are saying makes absolutely no sense.

They don’t believe in freedom and self determination, so they take my money without consideration of my children’s future.

Actually it has consistently been the left, especially the NDP that has consistently stood up for individual rights and freedoms. Check Hansard from the last twenty years.

And that is the truth.

No, it's an outright, bald-faced lie. I'm surprised that you believe it and saddened that you would try to perpetuate it.

So now that we all know this, stop blaming the radical right for your problems, when you the radical left create your own problems.

We try to address problems, Jay. The radical right just tries to profit from them.

And when people start to figure this out, don’t call them greedy for realizing their in charge of their own destiny, and not you.

I call 'em as I see 'em. Anybody who wants to profit from society without giving anything back is greedy. I can't help that.