Political Leanings
- Thread starter Jersay
- Start date
You guys are actually discussing the same exact thing. Colpy is just saying that it is against human nature to have social equality. If I got that correctly. Which I know is hard for some people but I believe people can do. And that is what I was discussing about Bit.
Jersay said:
Left, Center and Right are all relative terms. The liberals are to the right of the NDP and to the left of the conservatives, so relatively speaking they are a centralist party. There are a lot of differences between the conservatives policies and the liberals policies.
No this is not about the party. This is about you personally. If you view yourself on the left-center-or right of the four parties listed.
So if you are a Liberal, are you a lefty liberal or center or righty.
So if you are a Liberal, are you a lefty liberal or center or righty.
Re: RE: Political Leanings
It depends on what you are comparing Canada to. You can't say that Canada is a left-wing country or a right-wing country without a comparison. If you compare Canada to the U.S., then Canada is a left-wing country. Canadian federal politics were dominated by the liberals for the past 13 years. The republican party tends to be more dominant than the democrats in the U.S., and the democrats are probably more right wing than the liberals. I agree with your comment about Mulroney though, he was either a red tory (compared to the current reform dominated conservatives) or a blue liberal.
Colpy said:
It depends on what you are comparing Canada to. You can't say that Canada is a left-wing country or a right-wing country without a comparison. If you compare Canada to the U.S., then Canada is a left-wing country. Canadian federal politics were dominated by the liberals for the past 13 years. The republican party tends to be more dominant than the democrats in the U.S., and the democrats are probably more right wing than the liberals. I agree with your comment about Mulroney though, he was either a red tory (compared to the current reform dominated conservatives) or a blue liberal.
Jersay said:
And you're right, that is what I was saying. The Russians used to have a saying in the old Soviet Union, "I pretend to work, and they pretend to pay me." A system that curtails radically the ability of humans to claw to the top by innovation or just plain hard work, is doomed to stagnation, no matter how lofty their philosophy.
At the same time, Brit, as I said, there are some things that need to be supplied for all people in a just society, such as health care, equality before the law, and help for those unable to keep themselves above a certain standard.
BitWhys said:
Nobody wants to adopt the old Soviet system......that's the entire point.
I think it would be wise to avoid the kind of government control that stifles innovation and peoples' natural inclination to provide well for themselves.
Would you like to see the result of forced communal living and the restraint of private property? Take a close look at Canada's Indian reservations.
No of course not and I challenge you to name a major party that does, but I suggest you look at the public funds input involved in R&D and the results that has yielded (military spin-offs and university-based groundwork for pharmaceuticals are two ready examples - i.e. guess where Tamiflu got its start) before you go wholesale slagging the mythical government repression of innovation. The proposed AP6 is a perfect example of how industry claims need of independance when it suits its purpose and sucks on the public teet while no one is either paying attention or giving it much thought.
BitWhys said:
Whoa there girl!
If you go back to the top of this thread, you will see that I think Canada is neither a right-wing, nor a left-wing country. We are discussing political philosophy as an abstract, I was not saying Canada has become a Marxist-Leninist dreamworld!
I have no idea what the "proposed AP6" is, but I would agree that large companies consistently cry "free enterprize" while at the same time sucking at the public teat. Bombardier is the best example. Auto manufacturers in southern Ontario are another.
The problem with that whole scenario is that without the public teat, the auto makers at least WOULD get innovative.......and move to Mexico. It is disgraceful, sickening, and perverse........but I have NO idea what the solution is.
Remember, I used to vote NDP back in the day of David Lewis and "corporate welfare bums", before the NDP became the home of idiot latte-sucking ivory-tower academics, ostriches, hand-wringing "victims" of whatever, and other related forms of twits. Svend Robinson springs to mind.
BitWhys said:
Never said you weren't civil.
Just thought you were heading off in the wrong direction.
I don't have any adhererence to a Party. Last 2 elections I voted Green Party, before that Alliance and Reform. I tend towards the right in economics only in that they are more in tune with my Libertarian nature. I don't like Big Brother control on social issues whether it be the left or the right...two birds of the same feather preaching freedom but advocating control. I have voted NDP in the past but now see the party as mired in political correctness and kneejerkidness.
The environmnet is the single most important issue I will vote on but wish it wasn't clouded with political nonsense from both sides. Some fellow Greens I have met are sensible, well grounded people....others are loonies.
The environmnet is the single most important issue I will vote on but wish it wasn't clouded with political nonsense from both sides. Some fellow Greens I have met are sensible, well grounded people....others are loonies.
Re: RE: Political Leanings
I don't think the NDP has been over ran, but I think saying they tend to put the tree hugeness to the forefront of late a little too much. Surprisingly, the provincial NDP parties appear to be a closer to the centre on most economic issues then the federal party, which of late seems to have moved a little to the left of the provincial counter parts. Like you I wish the NDP would move to the centre a little more on some issues and keep in mind the libertarian rights of both the left and the right, rather then government interference. However that will not change without an effort from federal NDP members and supporters pushing for change. Like the Left and the extreme left in the NDP which both have a solid support mechanism the centre and the right in the NDP need to be just as organized. Now the extreme left in the NDP has mostly been defeated but that’s mainly out of the soft lefts victory over the right.
I feel even though Jack Layton is seen as the left wing of the party he is more generally just a party loyalist and will go were the majority of the party wishes to go.
athabaska said:
I don't think the NDP has been over ran, but I think saying they tend to put the tree hugeness to the forefront of late a little too much. Surprisingly, the provincial NDP parties appear to be a closer to the centre on most economic issues then the federal party, which of late seems to have moved a little to the left of the provincial counter parts. Like you I wish the NDP would move to the centre a little more on some issues and keep in mind the libertarian rights of both the left and the right, rather then government interference. However that will not change without an effort from federal NDP members and supporters pushing for change. Like the Left and the extreme left in the NDP which both have a solid support mechanism the centre and the right in the NDP need to be just as organized. Now the extreme left in the NDP has mostly been defeated but that’s mainly out of the soft lefts victory over the right.
I feel even though Jack Layton is seen as the left wing of the party he is more generally just a party loyalist and will go were the majority of the party wishes to go.
I guess I'm out on my own a little to the right of the conservatives.
My philosphy for how a government should be run is to say 'No' a whole lot more than they say 'yes'. If the question starts with 'We need more funding for...' the answer in most cases should be 'No'. Keep government out of business - that means no tax free loans, and no taxation of all business. Business creates jobs for people in Canada, why would we make this difficult by taxing them? Why pick winners and losers by handing out government money? The government should ensure that the businesses operate ethically and by the law but beyond that get the hell out of the way.
Socially - I don't care what you do as long as you don't hurt anybody and as long as you obey the laws of the land. Oh yeah, don't ask me to pay for your rights - you have a right to a number of things. Go exercise that right on your own dime. In general I believe that if people lived with less of a social safety net they would be more inclined to take care of themselves and their families.
My philosphy for how a government should be run is to say 'No' a whole lot more than they say 'yes'. If the question starts with 'We need more funding for...' the answer in most cases should be 'No'. Keep government out of business - that means no tax free loans, and no taxation of all business. Business creates jobs for people in Canada, why would we make this difficult by taxing them? Why pick winners and losers by handing out government money? The government should ensure that the businesses operate ethically and by the law but beyond that get the hell out of the way.
Socially - I don't care what you do as long as you don't hurt anybody and as long as you obey the laws of the land. Oh yeah, don't ask me to pay for your rights - you have a right to a number of things. Go exercise that right on your own dime. In general I believe that if people lived with less of a social safety net they would be more inclined to take care of themselves and their families.
Re: RE: Political Leanings
This was a topic that I was not going to wander into, but I've changed my mind after having read your comment. Hmmm, "preaching freedom but advocating control" would seem to be somewhat contradictory on the surface, but if you dig a little deeper you'll find the concept to be not only sensible, but necessary.
Absolute freedom is devoid of order and civility. No absolutely free society can flourish, prosper, or survive in a condition of anarchy. Control is necessary to ensure that the strong don't eliminate the weak, and that opportunity exists for all. I think you'll find, on closer examination, that freedom cannot exist without control.
I'm not saying that I am an advocate of "Big Brother" like tactics, nor am I in favour of anything even remotely born of Orwellian fantasy, but to blindly suggest that control and regulation be minimized to virtual nonexistence, is preposterous. I certainly could not imagine any role for a government in a society where some control were not permitted and/or expected.
Perhaps I am taking your comment entirely out of context, but the endgame, in my opinion, is to have very definite control over areas that permit and foster a greater level of freedom for all.
athabaska said:
This was a topic that I was not going to wander into, but I've changed my mind after having read your comment. Hmmm, "preaching freedom but advocating control" would seem to be somewhat contradictory on the surface, but if you dig a little deeper you'll find the concept to be not only sensible, but necessary.
Absolute freedom is devoid of order and civility. No absolutely free society can flourish, prosper, or survive in a condition of anarchy. Control is necessary to ensure that the strong don't eliminate the weak, and that opportunity exists for all. I think you'll find, on closer examination, that freedom cannot exist without control.
I'm not saying that I am an advocate of "Big Brother" like tactics, nor am I in favour of anything even remotely born of Orwellian fantasy, but to blindly suggest that control and regulation be minimized to virtual nonexistence, is preposterous. I certainly could not imagine any role for a government in a society where some control were not permitted and/or expected.
Perhaps I am taking your comment entirely out of context, but the endgame, in my opinion, is to have very definite control over areas that permit and foster a greater level of freedom for all.
There is no doubt that I have become a NDP Centrist but I was not always such, Growing up in Ontario I felt it my duty to help in any manner I could to defeat Mike Harris Provincially and keep the likes of Stockwell and Preston sidedlined which at the time required me to campaign and vote Liberal.
However upon developing Kidney failure I have come to view things in a more leftist way. Being in and out of the hospital on a weekly basis I have seen the need for improvements, education and needless to say an end to all privatization. I also believe in transforming our polluting economy into a substainable one thru efforts like renewables (Being in one of the most Polluting' industries in the world ((Transportation)) I am eagerly awaiting the switch to ethanol from Diesel which will save money on our end and on the supply chain end meaning cheaper prices on just about everything) and finally and possibly most important is putting a plan in place to look after our baby boomers which are quickly on there way to becoming seniors, without a set plan we are looking at a total drain on our resources such as healthcare & CPP just to name a few.
Don't forget to sign your donor cards.http://www.giftoflife.on.ca/
However upon developing Kidney failure I have come to view things in a more leftist way. Being in and out of the hospital on a weekly basis I have seen the need for improvements, education and needless to say an end to all privatization. I also believe in transforming our polluting economy into a substainable one thru efforts like renewables (Being in one of the most Polluting' industries in the world ((Transportation)) I am eagerly awaiting the switch to ethanol from Diesel which will save money on our end and on the supply chain end meaning cheaper prices on just about everything) and finally and possibly most important is putting a plan in place to look after our baby boomers which are quickly on there way to becoming seniors, without a set plan we are looking at a total drain on our resources such as healthcare & CPP just to name a few.
Don't forget to sign your donor cards.http://www.giftoflife.on.ca/