Plane shot down,Malaysia seems to have bigger problems they might not be telling us
- Thread starter Count_Lothian
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Anything to confess, Putin? Russian leader in church as first picture emerges of home destroyed by falling MH17 victim. Now Ukraine says Russia has removed 38 corpses 'to destroy evidence'
By Kieran Corcoran and Ted Thornhill and Will Stewart and Richard Shears In Kuala Lumpur
19 July 2014
Daily Mail
19 July 2014
Daily Mail
Pictures have emerged of the destruction caused in Ukraine by the falling bodies of victims of flight MH17, which was shot down over eastern Ukraine.
The bodies of the 298 victims rained down from 33,000ft on a crash site 6 miles wide - and in one case plummeted through the roof of a rural Ukrainian home, coming to a grisly halt next to an old woman's bed.
Further images and accounts from the ground are emerging as Ukrainian authorities today accused Russia and the rebels of 'trying to destroy evidence' at the crash site by removing 38 of the bodies, despite international calls to leave the area untouched.
An international chorus of condemnation is intensifying upon Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has been accused of arming Ukrainian rebels whom it is widely believed used a surface-to-air missile to shoot down the plane.
Irinia Tipunova, 65, said: 'There was a howling noise and everything started to rattle. Then objects started falling out of the sky. And then I heard a roar and she landed in the bedroom.
The roof was broken. '
The dead woman's naked body was still lying inside the house, next to a bed. Ms Tipunova said: 'The body's still here because they told me to wait for experts to come and get it.'
Today Ukraine's government accused pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine of trying to destroy evidence at the crash site of removing 38 bodies from the scene.
'The government of Ukraine officially states that the terrorists, with the help of Russia, are trying to destroy evidence of international crimes,' a statement said.
'According to government data, the terrorists have taken 38 bodies to the morgue in Donetsk,' it said, accusing specialists with 'strong Russian accents' of threatening to carry out their own autopsies.
Rescue workers have been allowed on to the site, Ukraine said, and have found 186 of the 198 bodies - but have been stopped from taking anything away.
A government spokesman said: 'At 7 a.m. on July 19, 186 bodies have been found. The area that needs to be checked stands at 25 square km. Eighteen square km have already been checked.'
'The fighters have allowed Emergencies Ministry workers in there, but they do not allow them to take anything from the area. The fighters are taking away all that has been found.'
'She landed in the bedroom': The corpse of one of the victims crashed through the roof of a house in Raspinoye, just 3 miles from the MH17 crash site
'Howling and everything rattled': Retiree Irinia Tipunova, 65, told how the body ripped through her home. The damaged roof can be seen above from the outside
Disaster scene: Ukrainian locals were seen this morning walking among the wreckage at the crash site in Grabova
Belongings: Luggage carried on board by the 298 victims has seemingly been heaped up at the crash site
Rescue: Ukrainian workers began to carry away the bodies of victims, two days after MH17 crashed
Behind it all? Vladimir Putin, pictured with Orthodox church Patriarch Kirill at a religious celebration yesterday, is under international pressure
Video has emerged showing final moments inside the cabin of MH17 before it took off on doomed flight
Read more: MH17 eyewitness accounts emerge of the horror that unfolded at crash site | Mail Online
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Eight of the ten British victims have been named.
The British victims include two Newcastle United fans travelling to New Zealand to support their team in a series of pre-season friendlies; a man now living in New Zealand who had been to Europe to visit Rottweiler breeders; former RAF Search and Rescue co-ordinator who had moved to Penang after taking a job with Maersk Drilling; a press officer at the World Health Organisation (WHO) and former BBC journalist who had been with a group of WHO officials travelling to a conference on AIDS; and two students from Loughborough and Leeds universities.
'I'm just looking forward to seeing the boys and Sharlene': Tragic last email message from British MH17 victim Robert Ayley
Robert Ayley from Guildford moved to New Zealand as a dog breeder
Mr Ayley, 28, was in Europe looking for new Rottweiler bloodlines
The father of two told his wife Sharlene that he had seen the 'best' dogs
Former RAF technician Stephen Anderson, 44, also died in the crash
Two more British victims are yet to be named according to authorities
Mr Ayley, 28, was in Europe looking for new Rottweiler bloodlines
The father of two told his wife Sharlene that he had seen the 'best' dogs
Former RAF technician Stephen Anderson, 44, also died in the crash
Two more British victims are yet to be named according to authorities
By Darren Boyle
19 July 2014
Daily Mail
A father-of-two reported to be British-born but living in New Zealand was among the passengers on board the plane brought down over Ukraine.
Robert Ayley, 28, was returning home to his wife Sharlene and two young sons, aged two and four, in Wellington following a month-long working trip to Europe.
New Zealand media are reporting that Mr Ayley was originally from Guildford in Surrey and had been travelling on a British passport.
Robert Ayley, 28, from Guildford, pictured with his wife Sharlene, is the eighth named British victim of MH17
In a statement his family said they were 'desperately sad' to confirm that Mr Ayley had been a passenger on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
The dog breeder had travelled to Europe with a friend to visit Rottweiler breeders with the hope of growing his programme in New Zealand.
The statement said: 'Rob was always passionate about life, there were no half measures. He was passionate about his family too.
'He found in his boys two little people he could love, understand and trust. When they cried they were sad, when they laughed they were happy and when they hugged it was because they loved him.
'He struggled to interpret body language and innuendo but he could understand his boys.
'Sharlene and Rob are soulmates. She is his "Princess"'. She changed his life and he changed hers.
'She held his heart and he held hers. Rob will live forever in his family.'
They added that Mr Ayley 'went out on a high', highlighting his sense of humour.
Earlier, authorities confirmed that Stephen Anderson, top,and Glenn Thomas, bottom were both on the jet
In a final email before he boarded the flight, he talked about being 'ready to come home'.
He wrote: 'So yes, here we are. Last day in Europe. My flight is at 12 tomorrow. Right now, I'm just looking forward to seeing the boys and Sharlene. It's been a long, long journey.
'We've seen the world's greatest Rottweilers, we have established contacts, and made life-long friends, but now I'm just ready to come home.'
The other British victims of the disaster include Stephen Anderson, 44, a former RAF Search and Rescue co-ordinator who had moved to Penang after taking a job with Maersk Drilling.
Newcastle United fans John Alder, left and Liam Sweeney, right were going to New Zealand for a game
Newcastle United fans John Alder, 63 and Liam Sweeney, 28, who were travelling to New Zealand to watch the football team's pre-season tour, were also killed.
Glenn Thomas, 49, a press officer at the World Health Organisation (WHO) and former BBC journalist, Loughborough University student Ben Pocock, 20, and Leeds University student Richard Mayne, 20, from Leicestershire, were also on board.
Another victim was reportedly helicopter rescue pilot and father-of-two Cameron Dalziel, 43, who is understood to be South African but travelling on a British passport.
British experts from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch are due to fly out to Ukraine later today to help with the disaster probe.
Downing Street said six investigators from the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch would join the growing international probe into exactly how the plane came to crash, killing 298 people, including 10 Britons and 80 children.
The Foreign Office has also sent extra consular staff to Ukraine and the Metropolitan Police is liaising with international partners to send specialist officers to the country to assist with the recovery, identification and repatriation of those killed.
The Malaysia Airlines flight, a Boeing 777, was brought down over eastern Ukraine on Thursday as it flew from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, with the loss of everyone on board.
Read more: British MH17 victim Robert Ayley's tragic last email revealed | Mail Online
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Long with many pictures
Did MH17 pilot divert INTO the danger zone because he 'felt uncomfortable'? | Mail Online
Did MH17 pilot divert INTO the danger zone because he 'felt uncomfortable'? | Mail Online
probably some buckaroo figuring it was suppose to be a military transport etc...itchy show-off finger and boom...probably NOT the russians...who shoots down a commercial airliner without taking the big props for doing so anyway...nobody...it was a bonehead move like the yanks and iran air...a mistake that nobody wants to own.
If that alleged conversation between the front and the bosses is true....
MH17 Crash: Full Transcript Of Alleged Phone Intercepts Between Russian Intelligence Officers [VIDEO]
...someone got some 'splainin' to do
MH17 Crash: Full Transcript Of Alleged Phone Intercepts Between Russian Intelligence Officers [VIDEO]
...someone got some 'splainin' to do
Hello Mom, this is Vladamir Putin calling, . . . .
Where are all the Ukrainian dash cams?
Ajax family continues to deal with death of son on Malaysia Flight 17
ANGELA HENNESSY, Toronto Sun
First posted: Saturday, July 19, 2014 01:42 PM EDT | Updated: Saturday, July 19, 2014 02:32 PM EDT
AJAX - A devastated family continues to endure the aftershock of its horrifying loss.
The sister and parents of 24-year-old Andrei Anghel — the Ajax man who was killed along with 297 other passengers onboard Malaysia Air Flight 17 that was shot down over the Ukraine — are still in shock.
Anghel, who was studying medicine at university in Romania, was travelling to Bali with his German girlfriend for a vacation when the disaster occurred.
“We’re not even considering how or why this happened, we’re just trying to deal with what happened to us and what we have lost at this point,” his older sister, Alexandra Anghel, told the Toronto Sun on Saturday. “Andrei’s our baby.”
Alexandra spoke to her brother right before he boarded the doomed flight and had told him to be safe and that she loved him.
The nation has mourned alongside the Anghels, who said they sincerely appreciate the outpouring of support.
“It’s incredibly nice to know that everyone is suffering with us,” she said. “But, to us, it’s more than a national or international disaster at this point.
“We are just waiting and don’t really know what will happen next,” she added
The Anghels said they are expecting to hear shortly from the Foreign Minister’s office about what will happen as families wait for the recovery of loved ones’ remains.
The family was offered the chance to fly to the Ukraine where United Nations centres are set up for families to visit the crash site, but they said that they will not be doing that.
“We need space and time right now,” said Alexandra.
At this point there are no dates or timelines for families as to when they’ll bring home the deceased.
It was last reported more than 180 bodies had been recovered from the site of the crash, but had not been identified.
“This has just been the worst thing imaginable,” she said. “You could never be prepared for this.”
Ajax family continues to deal with death of son on Malaysia Flight 17 | Toronto
ANGELA HENNESSY, Toronto Sun
First posted: Saturday, July 19, 2014 01:42 PM EDT | Updated: Saturday, July 19, 2014 02:32 PM EDT
AJAX - A devastated family continues to endure the aftershock of its horrifying loss.
The sister and parents of 24-year-old Andrei Anghel — the Ajax man who was killed along with 297 other passengers onboard Malaysia Air Flight 17 that was shot down over the Ukraine — are still in shock.
Anghel, who was studying medicine at university in Romania, was travelling to Bali with his German girlfriend for a vacation when the disaster occurred.
“We’re not even considering how or why this happened, we’re just trying to deal with what happened to us and what we have lost at this point,” his older sister, Alexandra Anghel, told the Toronto Sun on Saturday. “Andrei’s our baby.”
Alexandra spoke to her brother right before he boarded the doomed flight and had told him to be safe and that she loved him.
The nation has mourned alongside the Anghels, who said they sincerely appreciate the outpouring of support.
“It’s incredibly nice to know that everyone is suffering with us,” she said. “But, to us, it’s more than a national or international disaster at this point.
“We are just waiting and don’t really know what will happen next,” she added
The Anghels said they are expecting to hear shortly from the Foreign Minister’s office about what will happen as families wait for the recovery of loved ones’ remains.
The family was offered the chance to fly to the Ukraine where United Nations centres are set up for families to visit the crash site, but they said that they will not be doing that.
“We need space and time right now,” said Alexandra.
At this point there are no dates or timelines for families as to when they’ll bring home the deceased.
It was last reported more than 180 bodies had been recovered from the site of the crash, but had not been identified.
“This has just been the worst thing imaginable,” she said. “You could never be prepared for this.”
Ajax family continues to deal with death of son on Malaysia Flight 17 | Toronto
It's not chaff. It's wreckage from the plane falling from the sky after it was hit by a missile. If it is chaff, it's chaff from the 1970s. Plus, why would a fighter plane deploy chaff against an unarmed airliner?
In today's Daily Mail, Clark S. Judge, a former adviser to President Reagan, has called Obama a "weak and timid President who talks big and does nothing."
This is a far cry from the leading roll that Britain and Australia are playing in the aftermath of this tragedy, whose Prime Ministers, Cameron and Abbott (it has been revealed that Abbott's daughters flew on MH17 just a few weeks ago), are leading the calls for action to be taken against Putin's Russia.
Just days before this tragedy, Cameron performed a major reshuffle of his Cabinet, with the PM choosing, amongst other things, a new Defence Secretary (Michael Fallon) and new Foreign Secretary (Phillip Hammond). Just days into their new jobs, the new Cabinet already has a lot on its plate.
Britain is probably the most hawkish of all the European countries towards Russia, with much of continental Europe - including Germany - too scared to act against the Russians as Russia provides them with a lot of gas.
This weak and timid President talks big... and does nothing: A devastating attack on Obama by a top Washington insider
Clark S. Judge believes Obama's reaction to the tragedy was 'disconnected'
Immediately 'reverted to script' to praise his administration
Former adviser to Ronald Reagan says it confirms 'chaos' of foreign policy
By Clark S. Judge, former adviser to President Reagan
20 July 2014
Daily Mail
Daily Mail
At a political event in Wilmington, Delaware, on Thursday, President Obama devoted only 40 seconds to the shooting down of the Malaysian airline, his first statement to the world following the news.
His emotionless reference to the attack as ‘a terrible tragedy’ seemed disconnected from the horrific moment, particularly as he immediately reverted to script to praise his administration and criticise Republicans.
It was a far cry from President Reagan’s 1983 fierce denunciation of the Soviet shooting down of a Korean airliner as a ‘crime against humanity’.
But it only confirmed the chaos into which US foreign policy has descended since the summer of 2012 when reporters at a White House briefing asked Mr Obama about the security of chemical weapons in the Syrian stockpile.
The commander in chief went beyond safety and said: ‘We have been very clear to the Assad regime … that a red line for us is [when] we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilised.’
The term ‘red line’ is the kind of clear, emphatic language major powers use only when they are prepared to back words with action.
A little over a year later, the Assad regime utilised chemical weapons against its own people.
The number of blunders that the President and his administration committed in the ‘red line’ affair is hard to fathom.
Before the President spoke, no one vetted the term and its consequences in the White House policy process and, once the words came out, no one undertook preparations in case Syrian president Bashar al-Assad called Mr Obama’s bluff.
According to reports, no one made the diplomatic rounds to line up the support of allies just in case, or the congressional rounds to line up the support of Congress. No one developed military plans or sent quiet signals to Assad that the US was not to be trifled with on this matter.
These actions are routine when any White House makes as definitive a commitment as the President made, except, apparently, this White House.
Even bigger blunders came after the Syrian chemical attack. Mr Obama began signalling that, despite his remark, he did not want a response, any response. First there was the verification charade. Multiple eyewitness accounts of rockets rising out of Syrian army installations and falling into the stricken zones at the time of the chemical attacks were not enough to warrant quick action.
Then there was his call for a congressional vote, delivered just when the need to respond was most urgent if air strikes were to deliver an effective message.
Finally, there was the utter failure to attract congressional support, assuming Mr Obama really wanted Congress to endorse the proposed attacks.
That the Parliament of our closest ally, Great Britain, rejected an air campaign first gave Mr Obama an additional reason for inactivity. The flailing seemed to end when Russian President Vladimir Putin opened the door to a negotiated deal with Syria. But it was not the end; it was the beginning.
For as the administration rushed to that door, all over the world those who depended on America when in harrowing circumstances were asking themselves: How reliable is America now? How strong now?
Also asking was Mr Putin. He noted the contrast between Mr Obama’s bold talk and timid response. As the former head of a friendly government said in a small meeting I attended not long ago: ‘Putin is cautious. He will probe. If he encounters resistance, he will pull back.’
The US failure to follow through in Syria gave the Russian president confidence that he could move with impunity.
SOON he was picking a fight with Ukraine. Like the scene in The Godfather – when, at his child’s baptism, Michael Corleone renounces the devil as the camera cuts back and forth to his men eliminating rival gangsters – Putin, before global television cameras, watched the opening ceremonies of the Sochi Olympics as Russian troops began movements preparatory to seizing Crimea.
This week, in the skies over Ukraine, we saw the consequences of the recklessness that the Russian godfather’s probing has unleashed.
Putin was not the only one to detect opportunity in American indecision. China stepped up its probes in the East and South China Seas. In the Middle East, with the US military presence drawn down nearly to zero in Iraq and soon Afghanistan, an army of ruthless fanatics gestating unnoticed in Syria’s east saw the chance to break out of national boundaries and within a few weeks occupied much of western and central Iraq.
Why has so much of the global order come apart so fast?
For the same reason that, as a friend reports, on the streets of San Salvador those who will smuggle your child to the Rio Grande have been securing an unprecedented volume of sign-ups. When asked about the chances of the child staying in America once the border is crossed, they tell parents: ‘It has never been easier.’
Now the word on weakness is everywhere, even the poorest barrios of Central America.
‘The fact that you have a crisis in Ukraine has nothing to do with Gaza,’ a deputy national security adviser to the President told an interviewer recently.
The current White House doesn’t understand how US f ecklessness in Syria can reverberate to Ukraine, and from there to the South China Sea, and the Americas, and Gaza and elsewhere in the Middle East.
In all this I have referred to the United States as the primary shaper of world events, which is, in fact, a misleading shorthand.
The US is not a superpower so much as the biggest player in a set of super-alliances, the most critical of which is with the UK.
Since the Second World War, when the US and Britain have been of one mind, liberal values have been secure and even advanced. When either has lost its sense of direction, neither has been nearly so effective.
The great danger in being the anchor to the global order is that when we lose our way the general peace itself is threatened.
This is just what we are seeing in theatre after theatre around the world. Perhaps it is time for a key ally like Prime Minister David Cameron to have a friendly talk with the President.
It is not just American interests that a flailing White House threatens. It is that of peoples everywhere.
Read more: This weak and timid President talks big... and does nothing: A devastating attack on Obama by a top Washington insider | Mail Online
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Journalists have chronicled the carnage that greeted rescuers when they reached the wreck of MH17, with crumpled corpses and body parts strewn amid the smouldering wreckage...
Corpses and body parts strewn amid MH17 wreckage greet first arrivals at Ukraine crash scene
Horrendous scenes in eastern Ukraine field where Malaysian Airlines flight crashed to earth are encountered by local villagers, rescue workers and militiamen as they reach the scene
By Philip Sherwell, New York
18 Jul 2014
The Telegraph
Scenes of near-unspeakable horror, with crumpled corpses and body parts strewn amid the smouldering wreckage, greeted local villagers and pro-Russian rebels who were first on the scene of the crash.
Journalists covering the separatist uprising in eastern Ukraine chronicled the gruesome carnage with searing eyewitness reports from the wheat field where flight MH17 smashed to earth, with no survivors from the 295 on board.
"A woman in a black sweater top lay on her back, blood streaming from her face, her left arm raised as if signalling someone," wrote Sabrine Tavernise, a New York Times correspondent.
"Another victim, naked except for a black bra, lay on the field, her grey hair mixing with the green grasses, one leg broken and her body torn.
Operation: Rescue forces have started to retrieve and remove bodies of passengers from the crash site of MH17
Crash site: Ukrainian rescue workers have been allowed into the site to start collecting bodies of the victims
"A young boy, who looked to be around 10 years old, lay on his side in a red T-shirt that read 'Don't Panic'." Rescue workers from the local militia forces tied pieces of white cloth on tree branches as near to the scene as they could as approximate markers of where bodies were found.
A travel guide to the Indonesian islands of Bali and Lombok, its pages intact, was a simple reminder that many of the passengers were heading off on holiday to Asia. Passports gathered together by the rescue workers.
"Many of the victims were still in their seat belts and attached to pieces of the plane," Ms Tavernise continued. "One man, still in his socks, but without pants [trousers], lay akimbo on the field, his right arm placed on his stomach, as if in repose.
"A young man in blue shorts, wearing red Nike sneakers, lay with his arms and legs splayed outward, clutching his iPhone." Locals told Noah Sneider a freelance American journalist, that at first they thought they were being bombed as the plane tore apart above the ground, raining wreckage, bodies and personal possessions along a debris path cut across the rural area.
"Bodies everywhere, organs splayed out," he wrote on the social media site Twitter. "Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster. Everything burnt out. Impossible to comprehend."
One local rebel fighter told him: "I've never seen anything like it. You look down and see ears, fingers, bones."
A rescue worker, who would give only his first name, Alexei, told The New York Times that wreckage was scattered across a crash zone of about four to six square miles.
"It fell down in pieces," he said Rescue workers, who numbered about 60, set up tents to gather the dead and the road past the field was lined with fire engines and other emergency vehicles.
Parts of the aircraft, including a tail fin clearly displaying the red and blue colours of Malaysian Airlines, were strewn across the road and field.
"Dogs barked in the distance and the air was filled with a bitter smell," wrote Ms Tavernise. "As dark descended on the field ... a light rain began to fall, casting a funereal pall over a scene of almost unspeakable horror."
Authorities are focussing on moving bodies to the morgue in Donetsk, leaving belongings behind
Bodies and body parts are still strapped to seats as reinforcements are called in to help with the identification process
Victims: Ukrainian officials chose to line the bodies up at the side of the crash site before removing them today
Corpses and body parts strewn amid MH17 wreckage greet first arrivals at Ukraine crash scene - Telegraph
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One strange aspect of this tragedy is the fact that so many of the corpses were completely, or almost completely, naked.
This is a phenomenon which occurred during the Lockerbie disaster in 1988, Britain's worst-ever terrorist attack, in which 259 people onboard Pan Am 103, and 11 people on the ground, were killed when the plane exploded over the town of Lockerbie (I remember, as a young boy, being in the car with my brother and parents and seeing the the wreckage of the plane lying by the side of the motorway).
The MH17 crash site photos had so many dead bodies that were naked (semi or full). What is the reason their clothes are pulled off?
It's highly suggestive that the aircraft came apart very suddenly at high speed. I take a certain measure of professional comfort in that, because the forces needed to cause that kind of virtually instantaneous destruction -- in effect, the airplane pulling itself apart due to the damage inflicted on it -- would have been violent enough to almost certainly incapacitate the majority of those aboard before they could have had any idea what was happening.
After the initial disintegration took place, the occupants thrown out of the fuselage without parachutes would have fallen through the air between 120 and 180 miles per hour, which would be enough to rip off some loose articles of clothing.
In contrast, there are accounts from the scene of people who almost look as if they are simply sleeping. If protected from much of the wind blast and restrained in their seats, they could have been incapactitated by the break-up, and then simply fallen to die at impact.
There's a famous picture from many years ago of a young New York woman who committed suicide by jumping off a skyscraper, crashing down to cave in the roof of a car. Apart from missing a shoe, she looks totally at repose.
Again, I hope and pray nobody knew what was happening, but a few probably did. Maybe somebody will be honorable enough to admit guilt and complicity in this act, but I doubt it.
The MH17 crash site photos had so many dead bodies that were naked (semi or full). What is the reason their clothes are pulled off? - Quora
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Who published the article in the first place? Why wouldn't this be changed to reflect the reality that when it was published it was not known who was in control of the launch. That is provable because even now there is no proof which side fired it and radar tracking would show the launch point and footage from the area at the time would show who was moving things around.
For instance how was it determined that it was a missile and not a bomb on the plane as it was directed to fly into the same area it had diverted the 10 previous times. A NATO operation without Kiev in the loop and the ones on the ground really would think 'the other side did it'. That would make the 'chaff' be some bio agent that will affect the people below in a few weeks and that will be blamed on Russia because the 'rebel terrorists' would not have access to that level of a weapon, neither would Kiev but the US and Israel both have such agents and they both could easily have gotten a bomb on a plane anyplace in the world.
"A Russian language page originally said that the plane was "shot down by terrorists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic.”"
The chaff would have been released during a missile attack if two missiles were fired and one missed the target, if a bomb was on-board the fighter was there to make sure the bomb did it's job.
Perhaps it was the NY Daily News that planted the original article (would you call yourself a terrorist) and had the bot watch it for changes, just so you could come along and, . . . well we know what happened after that.
For instance how was it determined that it was a missile and not a bomb on the plane as it was directed to fly into the same area it had diverted the 10 previous times. A NATO operation without Kiev in the loop and the ones on the ground really would think 'the other side did it'. That would make the 'chaff' be some bio agent that will affect the people below in a few weeks and that will be blamed on Russia because the 'rebel terrorists' would not have access to that level of a weapon, neither would Kiev but the US and Israel both have such agents and they both could easily have gotten a bomb on a plane anyplace in the world.
"A Russian language page originally said that the plane was "shot down by terrorists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic.”"
The chaff would have been released during a missile attack if two missiles were fired and one missed the target, if a bomb was on-board the fighter was there to make sure the bomb did it's job.
Perhaps it was the NY Daily News that planted the original article (would you call yourself a terrorist) and had the bot watch it for changes, just so you could come along and, . . . well we know what happened after that.
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I've just watched this video showing some of the victims lying amongst the smouldering wreckage.
WARNING: It contains gruesome footage which you may find disturbing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VfWwApLrT3M#t=9
WARNING: It contains gruesome footage which you may find disturbing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VfWwApLrT3M#t=9
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Not trying to be insensitive but if the parts of people and plane are recorded for location before being gathered would that data be enough to allow a digital recreation of events from when it began at 30,000 ft. That would certainly show an engine failure but the vid seems to show the fuel tanks remained intact until impact with the ground as there is no smoke trail and there was an explosion of considerable size on impact. A bomb in the back would remove the tail section but leave the tanks intact. Taking out an engine would mess up the wing-tanks and if they blew so would the center tanks that held the bulk of the fuel, either would leave a thick trail of black smoke as it fell out of the sky. The remains of people (and luggage) being broken into small parts and scattered over a large area would mean the tube was broken before impact and that might not be consistent with damage caused by a heat seeking missile.
I think it's normally the case that, like every crime scene, everything should be left where it is for a time as evidence. But the pro-Russian separatists have already been tampering with the wreckage.
What the authorities might do is piece the plane back together like a jigsaw puzzle, which is what they did with Pan Am 103 after Lockerbie, an almost identical disaster. And then they may be able to ascertain whether the missile hit the fuselage, a wing, or the tailfin. Some reports have stated that the plane split in two, with both parts falling in two different areas.
You posted a link to it, little to late to claim you want nothing further to do with it after viewing it.
It can't be any worse than the guy wandering around his own back yard picking up the remains of his mother who was killed by artillery fire. You only need to see it once and without that one time you wouldn't have a idea of why the guy was so ****ing upset.