Pissed! Surveillance camera video of firebomb attack

[Colpy]

It will be hard to charge him unsafe storage of the firearms, if Thomspon is able to show that they are not in storage.

Exactly.....there has already been unsafe storage prosecutions where the judge threw out the charge on the grounds that the man was at home, therefore the guns, being out, were not stored.

The fly in the ointment is the fact the guns were loaded..........of course the defense will be they were in use....for defense.

Seems obvious to me.

If Ian Thompson was guilty of "unsafe storage", then so are the officers that charged him. I assume they were carrying loaded handguns.

But some judges are completely brain-dead. Liberal appointees, you know.

 

[cranky]

if it is deemed acceptable that he should have an armed firearm for the purposes of citizens arrest, then wouldn't that sort of establish him as acting officer until the authorities arrive? You simply don't put cuffs on someone, then run around unloading firearms. that just doesn't seem reasonable, and I suspect that a lawyer will have no problems with his defense.

 

[ironsides]

You don't try and arrest someone without having a loaded firearm in your possession. What if the criminal was armed with a loaded gun and there you are acting like Barney Fife trying to load your weapon in a panic situation. Better to get the drop on them and explain it to the law later if need be. Better yet re-write your laws related to self defense.

 

[Colpy]

You don't try and arrest someone without having a loaded firearm in your possession. What if the criminal was armed with a loaded gun and there you are acting like Barney Fife trying to load your weapon in a panic situation. Better to get the drop on them and explain it to the law later if need be. Better yet re-write your laws related to self defense.

Actually, in Canada, my guess would be that the vast majority of arrests are done by private (unarmed) security.

When I was in Toronto doing a security course, one of the other students worked at the Ontario Liquor commission.....he did between 3 and 5 arrests a day.........the instructor, a 25 year police veteran and head instructor at the TO and the OPP police colleges, said he never heard of an officer that averaged more than 3 arrests in a week.........

Now think of all the mall cops, the in-store security, the industrial security.....etc etc etc....

 

[CUBert]

I suppose you are insane enough to believe the onus was on Thompson to flee in the face of attack, allow his life savings to go up in smoke, allow his animals to be burned alive, and allow those involved in serious criminal attack complete freedom to complete their activities.

That is idiotic.

I said material objects. His dogs, house, life savings, these aren't material objects. He should be allowed to protect those things, I agree.
But if you're an insane idiot about to shoot someone because they're going to rob your 52" LCD T.V you're a crackhead and should also be put in jail with the burglar.

 

[cranky]

Re: Now I'm Pissed! Self-defense....HA! f

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I said material objects. His dogs, house, life savings, these aren't material objects. He should be allowed to protect those things, I agree.
But if you're an insane idiot about to shoot someone because they're going to rob your 52" LCD T.V you're a crackhead and should also be put in jail with the burglar.

Why not? TVs are not freakin POPCORN. I am not giving anyone permission to scoop up as much as they can fit in ther hands.

If he rapes me, i am violated for 15 minutes. If he takes my 52in tv, he rapes me for the next 6 months.

I should have the right to shoot any bastard that takes something as significant that it takes months to bounce back.

 

[CUBert]

Hmm, let me reason with a guy who thinks it's ok to kill someone over a television... That won't be a complete waste of time...

 

[cranky]

Its not the tv that he is stealing, for all worldly items break down and get replaced. He is stealing months of my earning potential while i struggle rreplace the worldly item.

Besides, you are not describing it acurately. It goes like this:

"i have a gun, you are free to leave empty handed"

If he chooses to stay, he isnt just a good ol boy that wants to watch the hockey game, he means business. So what do i do? Do i hand a loaded weapoon to him and say "here, hold this so i can peacefully detain you" no. Do i had him the loaded weapon???? Absolutely not! At this point, it has gone too far, either he behaves carefully or i shoot to kill. There are no other rational alternatives.

 

[CUBert]

Explain how your television is earning potential ..
Your television is nothing but a luxury item, it's not a necessity, it doesn't keep you breathing/living.
Just because you thought such a meaningless item was worth saving up months for doesn't now mean it's worth killing over.
Perhaps if I were in such a situation and had a gun I'd probably point it at him and tell him to **** off, to try and scare him away. However I'd never pull the trigger unless he tried to come at me. If he's on drugs or something and doesn't listen and proceeds to take the television I'd calmly call the police and let them do their job.

 

[Colpy]

Explain how your television is earning potential ..
Your television is nothing but a luxury item, it's not a necessity, it doesn't keep you breathing/living.
Just because you thought such a meaningless item was worth saving up months for doesn't now mean it's worth killing over.
Perhaps if I were in such a situation and had a gun I'd probably point it at him and tell him to **** off, to try and scare him away. However I'd never pull the trigger unless he tried to come at me. If he's on drugs or something and doesn't listen and proceeds to take the television I'd calmly call the police and let them do their job.

Ahhhh.....I agree with CuBert.

Having said that.....

You'll find me in the basement, hanged.

I would never fire at a fleeing thief that was getting away something inconsequential.............even if I could do so with complete impunity. (not likely in this country)

I would insert myself between him and escape and do all I could to prevent it, and if attacked, defend myself..........but that is many degrees different than shooting someone fleeing with material goods.

 

[cranky]

Explain how your television is earning potential ..

it isn't. but it will cost me earnings to replace

Your television is nothing but a luxury item, it's not a necessity, it doesn't keep you breathing/living.

I don't have to explain my spending habits to any criminal.

Just because you thought such a meaningless item was worth saving up months for doesn't now mean it's worth killing over.

I dont care if I spent 3 months of earnings on freakin toilet paper. If he tries to steal 3 months worth of my earnings, i will stop him. And, I don't care why he is stealing it. There's a gas station on the corner if he needs to take a sh@t.

Perhaps if I were in such a situation and had a gun I'd probably point it at him and tell him to **** off, to try and scare him away. However I'd never pull the trigger unless he tried to come at me.

exactly my point. I have the right to stop him from taking my property, and I wouldn't pull the trigger unless he tries to escalate things into a violent situation. but make no mistake about it, he isn't walking out that door with my property. but he has my word that he can leave safely with his hands empty .

If he's on drugs or something and doesn't listen and proceeds to take the television I'd calmly call the police and let them do their job.

if he proceeds to carry the TV, its really not that hard for me to stop him at the doorway without hurting him or pulling the trigger. if he gets shot, it is because he escalated his crime to something more serious. and more violent.

Furthermore, I'm not his doctor or his therapist, if he's on drugs that too f*cking bad. I've been drunk and worse, and I have never woke up the next day wondering how a 52" TV got onto my coffee table.

 

[CUBert]

You're going to escalate it into something violent potentially by trying to block him from leaving , and it's really not worth it over a television. Simply call the police, give them an accurate description, get his plates off his vehicle. You get your T.V back, no blood spilled.

 

[cranky]

well I see your point but my house has a front door and a back door. If I'm at the front door, I will be suggesting that he leaves through the back door.

I would love to call the police, however, I own a rifle. Too bad handguns were not easier to attain. Handguns are the most humane firearm on the market because while one hand points the gun at the criminal, the other hand is free to call the police.

How do I know the license plates will be valid? maybe they are stolen too.

If the criminal drops everything and runs, no blood spilled.

if the criminal choose to stay in the house and wait for the cops to arrive so he can complain "this guy keeps blocking the door everytime I pick up his TV", no blood spilled.

if the criminal choose to graduate from TV theft to something violent and targeted at me, then my choice has been made. shoot first, get a lawyer.

 

[ironsides]

I said material objects. His dogs, house, life savings, these aren't material objects. He should be allowed to protect those things, I agree.
But if you're an insane idiot about to shoot someone because they're going to rob your 52" LCD T.V you're a crackhead and should also be put in jail with the burglar.

That person you mentioned just broke into a house, The owner shouldn't have any qualms about shooting them if they resisted.

 

[Colpy]

well I see your point but my house has a front door and a back door. If I'm at the front door, I will be suggesting that he leaves through the back door.

I would love to call the police, however, I own a rifle. Too bad handguns were not easier to attain. Handguns are the most humane firearm on the market because while one hand points the gun at the criminal, the other hand is free to call the police.

How do I know the license plates will be valid? maybe they are stolen too.

If the criminal drops everything and runs, no blood spilled.

if the criminal choose to stay in the house and wait for the cops to arrive so he can complain "this guy keeps blocking the door everytime I pick up his TV", no blood spilled.

if the criminal choose to graduate from TV theft to something violent and targeted at me, then my choice has been made. shoot first, get a lawyer.

Be prepared to go to jail for a long, long time.......as the law stands at this moment.

Oh, and for even a chance at a chance......elect trial by judge and jury, and hope someone explains jury nullification to them.

 

[cranky]

Be prepared to go to jail for a long, long time.......as the law stands at this moment.

Oh, and for even a chance at a chance......elect trial by judge and jury, and hope someone explains jury nullification to them.

Its my word against a deadman, and if he is stupid enough to challenge a man with a firearm, then i will bet he has a history of violence already. I don't.

Be prepared to go to jail for a long, long time.......as the law stands at this moment.

Oh, and for even a chance at a chance......elect trial by judge and jury, and hope someone explains jury nullification to them.

I was told to be prepare to answer 'yes, i feared for my life'

 

[ironsides]

Actually, in Canada, my guess would be that the vast majority of arrests are done by private (unarmed) security.

When I was in Toronto doing a security course, one of the other students worked at the Ontario Liquor commission.....he did between 3 and 5 arrests a day.........the instructor, a 25 year police veteran and head instructor at the TO and the OPP police colleges, said he never heard of an officer that averaged more than 3 arrests in a week.........

Now think of all the mall cops, the in-store security, the industrial security.....etc etc etc....

Canada seems to have more unquestionable respect for authority than we do in the U.S. Say for example a shoplifter is spotted by a unarmed security guard, the most that guard could ask for is that they are not hurt trying to stop the shoplifter, or at best chase them off. Most malls in the U.S. hire off duty policemen as well as unarmed security.

 

[YukonJack]

Who asked you?

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this a PUBLIC forum?

 

[cranky]

If we could consider a specific part of this confrontation....the point where you have defensively pulled out a firearm because a criminal is in your home.

There are people here that are suggesting that i would go room to room looking to shoot the crininal in the back like it was some kind of charles branson movie. I dont think it reasonable to characterize me or any other law abiding citizen that way.

If i shot a criminal it would be defensive reaction to a threatening move made on his part. Still with me? I sound reasonable so far, no?

Some people suggest that i would shoot someone over a tv set. I dont disagree however i would add that it is not tv that would cause me to pull the trigger, it would be a threatem move made towards me.

The theif has to have some common sense. What if he comes at me with the naive intention of beating me up? Well, stupid is stupid, charging an armed man is as stupid as driving a car off a cliff. If a tv theif charges me, i accept no responsibility for his death.

Afterall, what choice do i have? I sure as hell ain't giving up my rifle to the criminal. If he comes at me, the only rational choice is to shoot him. And, it will be his fault.

 

[cranky]

When it comes to having to shoot somebody, I want the person doing the shooting trained and seasoned in making those choices.

If I am armed, and the criminal comes after me in my own home. There are no decisions to be made except pull the trigger. The alternative involves losing the loaded firearm to a criminal. The criminal leaves me no choice. If I have to shoot him, he is stupid, stupid, stupid.