Pakistan - Musharraf resigns

[Zea Capri]

As far as robbing the country is concerned, lets see just one aspect.
The Energy Crisis: 9yrs back we were not facing loadsheddings, the Gov. made it possible to supply electricity without a single hour of loadshedding.
Now we face 6 to 7 hrs of loadshedding daily..huh! Can you Canadian people imagine 6hrs without electricity DAILY.

His only claim of prosperity the communication industry is a disaster...the whole nation is MISSUSING that at such an extent that I have seen people that are homeless, don't have the bread, living below poverty line using mobile sets and enjoying the services. It's not that things are free, it's because people are somehow hypnatized to use mobile phones, in the class, at the bus stop, at bed in the bathroom and probably on gun point too....:lol:
I mean the bread and home is a priority or communication?
He had made the nation crazy....hoff! One thing that I have noticed with booming mobile industry the rate of STREET CRIME has raised to much bigger extent.One reason is a surity to the robber of the presence of an expensive mobile set in every pocket, may be two if he is lucky:smile:

 

[Zzarchov]

He was no more an army man,as he resigned from the post of Chief of army staff a few months ago, so coup was not possible.

I don't think you understand how a coup works. Whether or not someone has "official rank" doesn't matter at all. As someone with "official rank" shouldn't overthrow the government with the military anyways.

If they obey what he commands then he can do whatever he wants. Laws and rank only matter when enforced.

As far dismissing the parliment; this needs a few charges against it.So the new infant Gov. can not be charged.

Yes, you can make up any charges you want. In fact, this is something those leveling impeachment charges against him publicly spoke about and said they thought he would do.
He didn't.

Also he was unable to use 17th amendment to resolve the assemblies because of the pressure that my be American or some internal one.

Most likely the American's if anyone. Even still, if he cares about Pakistans future over his own, that kinda shows his true colours doesn't it.

And the point you mentioned that he took over during a civil war is absolutely wrong.Media may be projecting that.

Well its the Pakistani media, and Indian Media, pretty much all the media in the region projected that.

The things were much better at that time.The country was at peace and progressing better.Now that a part(nothern) is at war and the whole country is facing suicide bombers daily...It never was like that.

If by peace you mean "nuclear showdown" and by progressing better you mean "on the verge of a complete economic meltdown due to rampant government corruption"

This was a BLOODLESS coup, if things are going well and the military usurps command, people fight back. It isn't bloodless.

 

[dancing-loon]

CIA Shenanigans in Pakistan

American officials reached a quiet understanding with Pakistan’s leader last month to intensify secret strikes against suspected terrorists by pilotless aircraft launched in Pakistan, senior officials in both governments say. But the prospect of changes in Pakistan’s government has the Bush administration worried that the new operations could be curtailed.

Among other things, the new arrangements allowed an increase in the number and scope of patrols and strikes by armed Predator surveillance aircraft launched from a secret base in Pakistan — a far more aggressive strategy to attack Al Qaeda and the Taliban than had existed before.

But since opposition parties emerged victorious from the parliamentary election early this week, American officials are worried that the new, more permissive arrangement could be choked off in its infancy.

In the weeks before Monday’s election, a series of meetings among President Bush’s national security advisers resulted in a significant relaxation of the rules under which American forces could aim attacks at suspected Qaeda and Taliban fighters in the tribal areas near Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan.

The change, described by senior American and Pakistani officials who would not speak for attribution because of the classified nature of the program, allows American military commanders greater leeway to choose from what one official who took part in the debate called “a Chinese menu� of strike options.

Instead of having to confirm the identity of a suspected militant leader before attacking, this shift allowed American operators to strike convoys of vehicles that bear the characteristics of Qaeda or Taliban leaders on the run, for instance, so long as the risk of civilian casualties is judged to be low.

The new, looser rules of engagement may have their biggest impact at a secret Central Intelligence Agency base in Pakistan whose existence was described by American and Pakistani officials who had previously kept it secret to avoid embarrassing President Pervez Musharraf politically. Mr. Musharraf, whose party lost in this week’s election by margins that surprised American officials, has been accused by political rivals of being too close to the United States.

The base in Pakistan is home to a handful of Predators — unmanned aircraft that are controlled from the United States. Two Hellfire missiles from one of those Predators are believed to have killed a senior Qaeda commander, Abu Laith al-Libi, in northwest Pakistan last month, though a senior Pakistani official said his government had still not confirmed that Mr. Libi was among the dead. A C.I.A. spokesman declined on Thursday to comment on any operations in Pakistan.

The new agreements with Pakistan came after a trip to the country on Jan. 9 by Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence, and Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the C.I.A. director. The American officials met with Mr. Musharraf as well as with the new army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, and offered a range of increased covert operations aimed at thwarting intensifying efforts by Al Qaeda and the Taliban to destabilize the Pakistani government.
​

http://www.theseminal.com/2008/02/24...s-in-pakistan/
---------------------------------------------------------------
Now a few more things make sense, like the "accidental" bombing of Pakistani soldiers! Or the mysterious disappearance of a diplomat.
Now that Musharraf is gone the CIA may have to curtail their operations within the country.
Zea Capri, is there anything you know in this regard?

 

[Zea Capri]

@ original topic
Well, in short, he was "The Best among the worst"...He was an unconstitutional man, otherwise among the army rulers he was better than others.

 

[dancing-loon]

Thanks, Zea, for getting back to the org. topic. I tend to run with whatever I find, and I thought the Taliban issue was relevant, as it shows how Musharraf co-operated with the US. Now he is gone and complaints are voiced over their strength increase.

The big cat is gone, the mice are getting more numerous and cockier. Read here:
Taleban winning war, says Zardari


The Pakistani Taleban have "the upper hand" and should be put on the list of banned organisations in Pakistan, Benazir Bhutto's widower, Asif Ali Zardari, has said.

He says the world and Pakistan are losing the war on terror. "It is an insurgency", he said, "and an ideological war. It is our country and we will defend it.

"The world is losing the war. I think at the moment they (the Taleban) definitely have the upper hand.

"The issue, which is not just a bad case scenario as far as Pakistan is concerned or as Afghanistan is concerned but it is going to be spreading further. The whole world is going to be affected by it."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7580093.stm
-------------------------------------------------------------
Is he preaching Doomsday?
It seems the Taliban are using this temporary vacuum to push their agenda forward.
Zardari, a rich and apparently corrupt individual....how come he gets nominated for the presidency?
Do you have an idea, Zea?

 

[Zzarchov]

A simple one would be the tribal politics prevalent in the area that every pakistani migrant in Canada, the UK and America bitches about.

You vote for who you are told to vote for by your community. Perhaps that has cleaned up alot in some areas though, but that system is still prevalent in some areas though, as its the root cause of alot of the civil war in pakistan.

 

[dancing-loon]

Sorry, for barging in again!

August 30th, 2008

America's Plan to breaking up Pakistan cited in Senate

Senator Nisar A. Memon of the Pakistan Muslim League-Q alleged in the upper house on Friday that the Americans harboured the designs of breaking up Pakistan.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10010
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
What could be the reason for that? Wouldn't that increase terrorist activities?

 

[dancing-loon]

Good Morning.... and happy 9/11 - day!!!

Let's revive this thread and see what's going on in Pakistan. We know they have a new leader! We also know the US wants to transfer troops from Iraq to Afghanistan, in a bid to finally conquer the Taliban.

Today, in the New York Times:

Bush Said to Give Orders Allowing Raids in Pakistan


WASHINGTON — President Bush secretly approved orders in July that for the first time allow American Special Operations forces to carry out ground assaults inside Pakistan without the prior approval of the Pakistani government, according to senior American officials.

The classified orders signal a watershed for the Bush administration after nearly seven years of trying to work with Pakistan to combat the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and after months of high-level stalemate about how to challenge the militants’ increasingly secure base in Pakistan’s tribal areas.

American officials say that they will notify Pakistan when they conduct limited ground attacks like the Special Operations raid last Wednesday in a Pakistani village near the Afghanistan border, but that they will not ask for its permission.

Pakistan’s top army officer said Wednesday that his forces would not tolerate American incursions like the one that took place last week and that the army would defend the country’s sovereignty “at all costs.”

Cont. reading here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/wa...hp&oref=slogin
----------------------------------------------------------------
Although there is protest from Ali Zardari, there is also a silent nod from a secret someone in the government.
It wouldn't surprise me, if the war will be over before Bush leaves office.

 

[Zzarchov]

1.) Secret plans to divide Pakistan that are only known to a few Taliban supporting Pakistani Senators?

When did Pakistani senators aides get such good access to the white house?

2.) Secret bombing:

almost a certainty, happened in Vietnam too, and almost certainly happened in Korea (activities in China) and potentially in WWII (in Fascist Spain)

 

[Risus]

Good Morning.... and happy 9/11 - day!!!

Let's revive this thread and see what's going on in Pakistan. We know they have a new leader! We also know the US wants to transfer troops from Iraq to Afghanistan, in a bid to finally conquer the Taliban.

Today, in the New York Times:

Bush Said to Give Orders Allowing Raids in Pakistan


.

The guy just never gives up does he? I guess he hasn't learned his lesson in Iraq

 

[dancing-loon]

The guy just never gives up does he? I guess he hasn't learned his lesson in Iraq

When reading the entire article, one comes to realize that Pakistan is not really that hostile towards Al Qaida and the Taliban.

It appears Bush was kind of caught in the middle between very frustrated American military officials fighting from bases in Afghanistan, and staying loyal to a friendly ally.
Now it seems Bush took the reigns out of Pakistans hands and lets his Special Forces take over inside Pakistan. It can bring nothing but resentment, hostility and division amongst the military of the two countries.

What puzzles me though, is the fact that the war could keep going for seven years without this special order, or any move towards really going after the Taliban in the border region. Why now? What has been standing in the way until now?

 

[dancing-loon]

1.) Secret plans to divide Pakistan that are only known to a few Taliban supporting Pakistani Senators?

Your question puzzled me and I tried to find info about it.

"Pakistan is the central headquarters of all terrorist activities under the authoritative command of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) an organ of Pakistan Army who have been sheltering Islamic terrorists organizations in the country through military as well as financial support. Their objective is simple that is to rule the region under an Islamic system of their own brand and elimination of non-Muslim communities and culture. They believe that unless they use power they cannot fulfil their ambitions and as such they have found terrorism as the most convenient method for accomplishment of their political agenda. In order to promote this terrorism through religious recognition and some historic significance with a view to make it attractive for the youngsters, they misinterpreted the concept of Jihad (holy war) and since the Muslim masses living in that region are totally illiterate and ignorant about their own religion, they were misguided by the help of hypocrite Islamic scholars who motivated and induced the foolish young Muslims to fight against non-Muslims."

http://www.petitiononline.com/PAK47/petition.html

That puts a whole new perspective on the war!

When did Pakistani senators aides get such good access to the white house?

What do you mean exactly? Please, elaborate.

2.) Secret bombing:

almost a certainty, happened in Vietnam too, and almost certainly happened in Korea (activities in China) and potentially in WWII (in Fascist Spain)

Yes, that is nothing new. In a war anything that will harm the enemy in some way is being used.

 

[Just the Facts]

Their objective is simple that is to rule the region under an Islamic system of their own brand and elimination of non-Muslim communities and culture.

Of course, by "the region", they mean "the world".

 

[dancing-loon]

Of course, by "the region", they mean "the world".

Yes, that is the "fear" of the West. Personally, I don't believe that is their intention. The reverse is more like the new reality. The West is infiltrating and occupying their countries and they are fighting back.

I would like you to read the following article and then tell me how you see the situation.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/77027-demonization-muslims.html

 

[einmensch]

Zzarchov states--> It is possible for someone other than America to develop an atomic bomb on their own. DUH! Isn't that what Israel has been talking about--- for how many years? Words of wisdom?
Pipeline OLD news--http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=2052

Iran, Pakistan, India Set to go with Pipeline, May 2008.
The United States accuses Iran of trying to build nuclear weapons and has opposed the pipeline project as it feels it will weaken its efforts to isolate Tehran. I thought Israel was the leader in telling the world that Iran was working to develope a nuclear bomb but I guess it's the same thing.
Yet, the USA's and Canada' brave soldiers and defenders or our nations are there clearing areas in both Afghanistan and Pakistan to pave the way for the PIPELINE. Interestingly ambiguous?
AND Israel is going to BOMB Iran? Russia is friendly with Iran, Syria, Georgia-joke --Israel planes departed from Georgia--- Looks like the gangs are forming but perhaps they are just friendly clubs playing games.

The USA armed the Iraqis and afghanistanians with weapons from where?? Anyone know ?

 

[Just the Facts]

Yes, that is the "fear" of the West. Personally, I don't believe that is their intention. The reverse is more like the new reality. The West is infiltrating and occupying their countries and they are fighting back.

I would like you to read the following article and then tell me how you see the situation.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/77027-demonization-muslims.html

OK, firstly, America's ambitions have exactly no relevance to the goals of the Taliban, so you may as well post a link to a Swahili translation of Little Red Riding Hood.... it would be equally topical, if not more so.

Secondly, if you have an ounce of credibility you will retract the statement insinuating that I believe Muslims want to take over the world, since I never said any such thing....although I find it interesting that you regard the Taliban as representative of the Umma. Says a lot more about you thanit does about me.

Lastly, in response, here are a couple of articles from people who actually know a little something on the topic.



http://www.indianembassy.org/policy/Terrorism/think_tank/taliban_extremism_fa_nov_99.htm

"Our prestige is spreading across the region because we have truly implemented Islam, and this makes the Americans and some neighbors very nervous," says Afghan Information Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi. That is putting it lightly. As militants from around the world flock to it for sanctuary, Kabul only increases its support for the wave of Talibanization it hopes to unleash on the region and beyond

The camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan where they trained became virtual universities for promoting pan-Islamic radicalism in Algeria, Egypt, Yemen, Sudan, Jordan, the Philippines, and Bangladesh. Americans woke up to the danger only in 1993, when Afghan-trained Arab militants blew up the World Trade Center in New York, killing six people and injuring 1,000. The bombers believed that, just as Afghanistan had defeated one superpower - the Soviet Union - they would defeat a second.

Striking up a friendship with Umar, the Taliban chief, bin Laden moved to Umar's base in Kandahar in early 1997, Bin Laden reunited and rearmed the Arab militants still remaining in Afghanistan after the war against the Soviets, creating the "055" brigade. The Taliban had no contact with Arab Afghans or pan-Islamic ideology until then. But Umar was quickly influenced by his new friend and became increasingly various in his attacks on Americans, the United Nations, and the Saudis and other pro-Western Muslim regimes. Recent Taliban statements reflect a bin Laden style outrage, defiance, and pan-Islamism that the Taliban had never used before his arrival.

http://www.meforum.org/article/486

Far from fighting a purely intra-Afghan civil war, the Taliban's goals and supporters extend far beyond the borders of Afghanistan. As such, thousands of foreign Muslim extremists have flocked to the movement's side. It is these radicals to whom the Taliban pander with the movement's most infamous acts—from destroying the famed Buddha statues, to striving to make women virtually invisible, to harboring terrorists. The Taliban is thus not merely a group that is a threat to Afghanistan but to the entire world, and one that the United States should take a more active and effective role in countering.


Loon, you're too easy. Much much too easy. You should try informing yourself a little bit before posting sneering derisive comment about people who have done nothing but state the facts. Just the facts.

Sheesh.

 

[Just the Facts]

BTW, both articles I reference above were published BEFORE 9/11.

 

[dancing-loon]

OK, firstly, America's ambitions have exactly no relevance to the goals of the Taliban, so you may as well post a link to a Swahili translation of Little Red Riding Hood.... it would be equally topical, if not more so.

Secondly, if you have an ounce of credibility you will retract the statement insinuating that I believe Muslims want to take over the world, since I never said any such thing....although I find it interesting that you regard the Taliban as representative of the Umma. Says a lot more about you thanit does about me.

Lastly, in response, here are a couple of articles from people who actually know a little something on the topic.



http://www.indianembassy.org/policy/Terrorism/think_tank/taliban_extremism_fa_nov_99.htm

"Our prestige is spreading across the region because we have truly implemented Islam, and this makes the Americans and some neighbors very nervous," says Afghan Information Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi. That is putting it lightly. As militants from around the world flock to it for sanctuary, Kabul only increases its support for the wave of Talibanization it hopes to unleash on the region and beyond

The camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan where they trained became virtual universities for promoting pan-Islamic radicalism in Algeria, Egypt, Yemen, Sudan, Jordan, the Philippines, and Bangladesh. Americans woke up to the danger only in 1993, when Afghan-trained Arab militants blew up the World Trade Center in New York, killing six people and injuring 1,000. The bombers believed that, just as Afghanistan had defeated one superpower - the Soviet Union - they would defeat a second.

Striking up a friendship with Umar, the Taliban chief, bin Laden moved to Umar's base in Kandahar in early 1997, Bin Laden reunited and rearmed the Arab militants still remaining in Afghanistan after the war against the Soviets, creating the "055" brigade. The Taliban had no contact with Arab Afghans or pan-Islamic ideology until then. But Umar was quickly influenced by his new friend and became increasingly various in his attacks on Americans, the United Nations, and the Saudis and other pro-Western Muslim regimes. Recent Taliban statements reflect a bin Laden style outrage, defiance, and pan-Islamism that the Taliban had never used before his arrival.

http://www.meforum.org/article/486

Far from fighting a purely intra-Afghan civil war, the Taliban's goals and supporters extend far beyond the borders of Afghanistan. As such, thousands of foreign Muslim extremists have flocked to the movement's side. It is these radicals to whom the Taliban pander with the movement's most infamous acts—from destroying the famed Buddha statues, to striving to make women virtually invisible, to harboring terrorists. The Taliban is thus not merely a group that is a threat to Afghanistan but to the entire world, and one that the United States should take a more active and effective role in countering.


Loon, you're too easy. Much much too easy. You should try informing yourself a little bit before posting sneering derisive comment about people who have done nothing but state the facts. Just the facts.

Sheesh.

Yes, Sheesh!! Here is your answer to my post:

Quoting dancing-loon Their objective is simple that is to rule the region under an Islamic system of their own brand and elimination of non-Muslim communities and culture.

Your answer:

​

Of course, by "the region", they mean "the world".

I don't need to retract anything! There is no need nor reason to slam me so hard! But I will take it to heart and do my darnedest to avoid another encounter with you!

 

[Just the Facts]

Yes, Sheesh!! Here is your answer to my post:
I don't need to retract anything! There is no need nor reason to slam me so hard! But I will take it to heart and do my darnedest to avoid another encounter with you!

OK so you DO consider the "ISI-Taliban-JUI coalition" as being interchangeable with "Muslims".

Hmmm.

Edit:

I also said this:

The Taliban's interest is in the world.

The Taliban /= Muslims. Therefore you misquoted me and created a new thread to mock what I said, even though I didn't say it. Don't put words into my mouth for the purpose of scoffing and jeering those words, and I won't slam you at all. Pretty simple and straightforward really.

Edit edit:

Besides, I didn't "slam" you, I confronted you with the truth. Or is that the same thing?