Pagan Culture

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My grandmother used to have a huge cactus that looked just like a San Pedro. I was thinking of asking her to give it to me, but while I was trying to figure out, whether it really was a San Pedro, she gave it to someone else. That was very upsetting LOL

But seriously, I wanted to ask you a question, if I may, Tam. Was, or Is your Indian heritage a serious influence on your beliefs? Did it help you to become what you are? And if it is so, could you please tell me, if this influence was always a major factor in your life, or did you start feeling it only at a certain period?


Shamanism lead me to Wiccan and that led me to Paganism. As a child I was taken away from my grandma and grandpa Pridemore. Grandma would tell me stories in secret about the reservation and the cross from Oklahoma to California. Well my Mom divorced my Dad and left to Massachuttes when I was four. We were told NOT to say we were Cherokee that if anyone asked we were Irish (which we were on my grandpas side. His great great great grand father kidnapped a cherokee woman, tied her to a wagon and raped her) So being indian wasnt mentioned nor were dreams or visions or voices. Mom had dreams but it was never talked about until right before she died. he had a dream of my cousin dying and she dreamed of me getting beat up on my 16th birthday. But if the Priest found out about any of this we'd be excommunicated so it was talked about and it down right scared Mom.

As I got older and found myself diagnosed as BiPolar I excused the voices and the dreams as apart of my disease, I had a priest tell me once I was possessed and I was going to hell. So again it was hid. After my first divorce I started practicing solitary Wiccan but the people I was practicing with were nuttier than me and my Mother died. The day she died I felt her die, I stopped breathing the second she did. It was early morning and I havent felt her since. So 14 years later I divorce the 2nd husband and come to Virginia from Texas. The SECOND I passed over the Virginian border I woke up (I was on a bus) and I KNEW I was home. Theres an atiquity about the place. Not colonial, far older. I started reading different books and started going to different message boards and found I was NOT that crazy, I wasnt alone in my seeking.

That was 4 years ago. Last year I found a circle, mostly solitary wiccan, some buddist, some mystic christians, druids, some just seeking. Theres no book to follow, no one way. We honour truth and we know everyone has their own truth. Its a loving way and we all have our quirks. Mine is indignant rightousness........lol Im working on it.

I dont know if your questions are answered. If not feel free to ask more ;) The only way to dispell the ignorance is if we come out of the broomclosets and sweep the porch ;)
 

RomSpaceKnight

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I may have panthesistic leanings. I believe that there is one defining principle which dictated how the universe was created and how all things in it operate. This one defining principle permeates the entire universe and all within it. We are as much a creation of this principle as a dust mote in the farthest reaches of space. We are after all stardust. This principle could easily be called "divine" making all of us and all within creation equally divine.
 

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Kris and I were talking about this earlier.I call it Source he calls it Spirit. All things are apart of its grandest expression. I love being apart of this way of thinking it makes me apart of Love. It makes me .......apart of my deities purpose. I matter, I belong, Im a part of, Im beauty, Im ancient and Im young, Im all things just as Source because Im part of that sourse. So Fae and Pan are also apart and I apart of them. Its opening your mind and heart to ALL posibilities.
 

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Someone had asked about Summerland on another thread. Summerland is the Pagans "heaven". I wrote this piece back in October.


The Faeries had promised that I could come home last night ant I think the amethyst was the key to the door. I had felt so close yesterday. The Oak had spoke with me and healed my heart a bit. What a strong healer. I can see why the Fae’s trust him with the secret door. His roots strong and he keeps their secret well. I didn’t almost! I saw past the veil of the marbled wood and as I drifted off I saw the rabbit hole twisting down into the roots, past the earth into the cavern. The roots dropping into the underground stream, soaking up the crystal clear water in the crystalline cavern. Protruding from its walls were amethysts, garnets, amazonite, Smokey quartz, clear quartz points, rose quartz all in abundance. Drifting down the cold stream, amongst the cavern walls, the sparkle and glitters of the ever so delicate mica twinkling off the walls. The stream cascades down a patch of white water rapids and surrenders into an underground lake. In the center of the lake is a lush island of the oldest willows, the most ancient of Oaks and Pines, Ashe, Maple. It was the oldest forest never known to mankind. I thought…How??? Then she showed me. The cave was illuminated with mica mirroring the sunlight till the whole cave glowed and the underground quarry twinkled like stars. Then I thought…Who??? Instantly I knew my Goddess had opened my eyes. Cleared my mind and took my hand. I suddenly thought…and called…KUMCHAKA! I heard his call from the other end of the island. There he was my sweet guide. He swept down and took my hand and as if the days had never passed my friend and I flew. Fae smiled and I was home again. My heart soared higher than I’ve ever remembered. Then I remembered my body at the oak, my back against his warm trunk. I was sad I had to return. We flew to the isle, to Fae and standing tall next to my Goddess was a handsome man. I knew him. He was a Prince, he was my son. I ran to greet him. I hugged him deeply. Not an utterance crossed our lips yet our eyes said books and books. I looked at my Goddess and turned to my son, we all laughed till I cried. I knew, I knew he was safe and well and waiting so we can play once again. My Guide took me and my son to the door in the old Oak. We bid each other Merry Part and Merry Meet Again knowing he andKumchaka would have many, many adventures and they all would guide my days left in this realm. Very soon we will all meet and there’s always dreamtime to play in.
 

RomSpaceKnight

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Pagan weblisting…

General Paganism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-paganism
http://www.sacredhearth.com/whatispagan.html/
http://www.neopagan.net/


Wiccan Traditions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca0.htm
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/wicca.html

Alexandrian/Gardnerian/British Traditional
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardnerian_Wicca
http://www.geraldgardner.com/
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/gbos/index.htm
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=trads&id=3367
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandrian_Wicca
http://www.meta-religion.com/Spiritualism/Wicca/alexandrian_wicca.htm
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=trads&id=8796
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Traditional_Wicca

Dianic/Femenist Wicca
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianic_Wicca
http://www.thissideofsanity.com/dianic/dianic.html
http://dianic.faithweb.com/dianics.htm
http://www.holysmoke.org/wicca/dianism.htm

Celtic-inspired Wicca
http://celtdigital.org/Wicca.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Wicca
http://www.tangledmoon.org/wiccanotceltic.htm

Georgian Wicca
http://www.georgianwicca.net/

Seax-Wica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seax-Wica
http://www.seax.org/
http://www.seaxtradusa.org/

Welsh Wicca
http://www.tylwythteg.com/index2.html

Blue Star Wicca
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Star_Wicca
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=trads&id=3490
http://www.bluestarwicca.org.uk/
http://www.kennyklein.net/bluestar.htm

Correllian Wicca
http://correllian.com/
http://www.correllianwiccasacredarts.com/
http://www.correlliancorner.com/

Faery Wicca Traditions
http://faery-wicca.com/
http://www.faeryfaith.org/

Celtic Paganism
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/necronomicon/310/WitchCraft/witch12.html
http://www.celticpagan.com/celt.htm
http://www.summerlands.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi


Druidry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-druidism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Bards%2C_Ovates_and_Druids
http://www.druidry.org/
http://www.adf.org/core/
http://www.druidorder.demon.co.uk/
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/

Asatru/Heathenry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathenry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_neopaganism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81satr%C3%BA
http://www.asatru.org/
http://www.runestone.org/flash/home.html

Syncretic African Spiritual Traditions in the Americas
Cadomble
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candombl%C3%A9
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/macu.html
Vodoun
http://www.religioustolerance.org/voodoo.htm
http://www.voodooshop.com/voodoo/smartfaq.html
Hoodoo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoodoo
http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
Santeria
http://www.religioustolerance.org/santeri.htm
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/santeria.html

Witchcraft Traditions
Green Witch
http://www.geocities.com/greenwitchcraft/
http://www.annmourasgarden.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/kitgreenwitch.html
Hedge Witch
http://thehedgewitch.com/
http://www.hedge-witch.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/greenwitch/sacred2.html
Kitchen/Cottage/Hearth Witch
http://hometown.aol.com/kyrene/index.html
http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/kitchenwitch.html
http://www.kitchenwitch.com/
http://www.jackowitch.com/basickitchenwitch.html
Italian
http://www.stregheria.com/ (not a fan of Grimnassi, but there isn't alot out there...)

Miscellaneous
Discordianism
http://www.kbuxton.com/discordia/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/disc.html
http://www.ology.org/principia/
http://www.discordian.com/

Shamanism
http://deoxy.org/shaman.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism

Reclaiming
http://www.reclaiming.org/


Roman paganism/ Religio Romana...

http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/declaration_religio.html (recon)
http://www.numinism.net/
http://www.religioromana.net/
http://www.canadaoccidentalis.org/religio.htm


Hellenic...

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/7773/ (recon)
http://www.hellenismos.com/
http://www.ecauldron.com/dc-faq.php

Other...

http://www.juliansociety.org/index.htm


http://www.paganlibrary.com/reference/church_of_all_worlds.php

http://www.paganlibrary.com/index_rr1.php

http://www.paganlibrary.com/index_rr2.php

http://www.paganlibrary.com/recipes/index.php
 

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The Witches Rede

Bide ye wiccan laws ye must in perfect love and perfect trust
Live and let live, fairly take and fairly give.
For the circle thrice about to keep all evil spirits out
To bind ye spell every time, let ye spell be spake in rhyme
Soft of eye, light of touch, speak ye little listen much
Deosil by the waxing moon, singing out ye Witches' Rune
Widdershins go by the waning moon, channting out ye Baneful Rune
When the Lady's moon is new, kiss your hand to her times two
When the moon rides at her peak, then ye hearts desires seek
Heed the north winds' mighty gale,lock the door and trim the sail
When the winds comes from the South, love will kiss ye on the mouth
When the blows from the West, departed souls may have no rest
When the wind blows from the East, expect the new and set the feast
Nine woods in ye cauldron go, burn them fast and burn them slow
Elder be ye Lady's tree, burn it not or cursed ye'll be
When the wheel begins to turn, soon ye bealtain fire'll burn
When the wheel hath tuned a Yule, light a log the Horned One rules.
Heed ye flower, bush and tree, by the Lady blessed be
Where the rippling waters waters flow, cast a stone and truth you'll know
When he have and hold a need, hearken not to others' reed
With a fool no season spend, nor be couted as his friend
Merry Meet and Merry Part, bright the cheeks and warm the heart
Mind ye threefold law ye should, three times band and three times good
When misfortune is anow, wear the star upon your brow
True love ye must ever be, lest thy love be false to thee
In these eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, an ye harm none, do what ye will



Because the Wiccan belief is newer compared to the Vikings and Druidism There is more literature to share.
 

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We have a full circle at Tom's Garden tomorrow. I think I'll make Kim's mosambeak shrimp. Today I slept all day, full of Dream Magic. I miss Dream Magic, it was nice to be given the gift on such a full day.
 

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Pagan weblisting…

General Paganism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-paganism
http://www.sacredhearth.com/whatispagan.html/
http://www.neopagan.net/


Wiccan Traditions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca0.htm
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/wicca.html

Alexandrian/Gardnerian/British Traditional
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardnerian_Wicca
http://www.geraldgardner.com/
http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/gbos/index.htm
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=trads&id=3367
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandrian_Wicca
http://www.meta-religion.com/Spiritualism/Wicca/alexandrian_wicca.htm
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=trads&id=8796
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Traditional_Wicca

Dianic/Femenist Wicca
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianic_Wicca
http://www.thissideofsanity.com/dianic/dianic.html
http://dianic.faithweb.com/dianics.htm
http://www.holysmoke.org/wicca/dianism.htm

Celtic-inspired Wicca
http://celtdigital.org/Wicca.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Wicca
http://www.tangledmoon.org/wiccanotceltic.htm

Georgian Wicca
http://www.georgianwicca.net/

Seax-Wica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seax-Wica
http://www.seax.org/
http://www.seaxtradusa.org/

Welsh Wicca
http://www.tylwythteg.com/index2.html

Blue Star Wicca
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Star_Wicca
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=trads&id=3490
http://www.bluestarwicca.org.uk/
http://www.kennyklein.net/bluestar.htm

Correllian Wicca
http://correllian.com/
http://www.correllianwiccasacredarts.com/
http://www.correlliancorner.com/

Faery Wicca Traditions
http://faery-wicca.com/
http://www.faeryfaith.org/

Celtic Paganism
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/necronomicon/310/WitchCraft/witch12.html
http://www.celticpagan.com/celt.htm
http://www.summerlands.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi


Druidry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-druidism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Bards%2C_Ovates_and_Druids
http://www.druidry.org/
http://www.adf.org/core/
http://www.druidorder.demon.co.uk/
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/

Asatru/Heathenry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathenry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_neopaganism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81satr%C3%BA
http://www.asatru.org/
http://www.runestone.org/flash/home.html

Syncretic African Spiritual Traditions in the Americas
Cadomble
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candombl%C3%A9
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/macu.html
Vodoun
http://www.religioustolerance.org/voodoo.htm
http://www.voodooshop.com/voodoo/smartfaq.html
Hoodoo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoodoo
http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
Santeria
http://www.religioustolerance.org/santeri.htm
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/santeria.html

Witchcraft Traditions
Green Witch
http://www.geocities.com/greenwitchcraft/
http://www.annmourasgarden.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/kitgreenwitch.html
Hedge Witch
http://thehedgewitch.com/
http://www.hedge-witch.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/greenwitch/sacred2.html
Kitchen/Cottage/Hearth Witch
http://hometown.aol.com/kyrene/index.html
http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/kitchenwitch.html
http://www.kitchenwitch.com/
http://www.jackowitch.com/basickitchenwitch.html
Italian
http://www.stregheria.com/ (not a fan of Grimnassi, but there isn't alot out there...)

Miscellaneous
Discordianism
http://www.kbuxton.com/discordia/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/disc.html
http://www.ology.org/principia/
http://www.discordian.com/

Shamanism
http://deoxy.org/shaman.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism

Reclaiming
http://www.reclaiming.org/


Roman paganism/ Religio Romana...

http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/declaration_religio.html (recon)
http://www.numinism.net/
http://www.religioromana.net/
http://www.canadaoccidentalis.org/religio.htm


Hellenic...

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/7773/ (recon)
http://www.hellenismos.com/
http://www.ecauldron.com/dc-faq.php

Other...

http://www.juliansociety.org/index.htm


http://www.paganlibrary.com/reference/church_of_all_worlds.php

http://www.paganlibrary.com/index_rr1.php

http://www.paganlibrary.com/index_rr2.php

[URL="http://www.paganlibrary.com/recipes/index.php"]http://www.paganlibrary.com/recipes/index.php[/URL]


I guess I could start a thread on every single one of these but I bet Id get banned for trolling. Wonder what the difference is?

I dont think I could, It would be rude and boorish to throw my beliefs in others faces over and over and over again.
 

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Reading through these threads have awakened my curiousity. I realize that in the scheme of things, Neopaganism is very, very young. Yet, I wonder how Neopagans tackle the big questions that many people have about life.


Such as Why is there evil? Why is there suffering? What is the purpose of life? etc

I realize that there is a thread on pagan beliefs about death but I didn't want to derail that thread with my questions.

I'm not asking with any kind of preconcieved notion as to what the anwers will be, I am honestly curious as to how Pagans answer these types of questions. It seems to me that at some point, most of us have asked these types of questions.

It would helpif I knew more clearly what sect your interested in. As you see theres many. I can tell you about my personal beliefs if your interested.
 

RomSpaceKnight

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Oct 30, 2006
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I guess I could start a thread on every single one of these but I bet Id get banned for trolling. Wonder what the difference is?

I dont think I could, It would be rude and boorish to throw my beliefs in others faces over and over and over again.

You don't need to start a thread on everyone but you could, a reply/post on each would be cool. Half my interest is intellectual and historical, yours is way more spiritual. Trolling is openly insulting and inciting. Spamming is for monetary gain. An open discussion on each and every one of these links and spiritual paths would be cool too. You have the time and the passion I do not.
 

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You don't need to start a thread on everyone but you could, a reply/post on each would be cool. Half my interest is intellectual and historical, yours is way more spiritual. Trolling is openly insulting and inciting. Spamming is for monetary gain. An open discussion on each and every one of these links and spiritual paths would be cool too. You have the time and the passion I do not.


I was hoping this thread would bring out more questioning and discussion but I think its too tame ;) I'll give it up to Goddess and see where she leads me in the near future. She always seems to point me True North :)
 

RomSpaceKnight

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3 pages in 2 weeks isn't too bad. The openly insulting and borderline trollish ones will get people's interest. Gliz, glamour, scandal, violence, other peoples woes get headlines.
 

RomSpaceKnight

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I want headlines. I want to battle fundies.

*shadow boxes intolerant fundies*

I want to bring back the old days. Pillaging their monasteries and carrying off their nuns. rotflmao

Cheese and rice nobody is any fun anymore. No fun just fundies. :(

*thinks a bit* * and thinks a bit more*

Yeah your right, live and let live. No sense in starting fights. Fighting is stupid after all, as my dad always said. You're a shining light of tolerance and acceptance, girl.
 

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Afriend of mine sends me these when she knows Im down, I thought it go well here.

Go for what you want

"Follow your bliss."

-- Joseph Campbell

It's hard for some of us to believe that the world is served when we seek our own happiness. We've been taught that this is selfish.

If we stop to reflect on how we are in the world when we are happy, we can see how this serves. We have more vitality. We're more loving and generous to others when our own needs are met.

What activities bring you greatest joy? Your unique gift to the world will be found in those pastimes you love the most.

How can you live your joy each day?

"Spiritual growth is not made in reaction against, for all striving against imposed restrictions is imaginary. Spiritual growth is accomplished by inclination toward. We grow like the sunflower, following the light."

-- Joy Houghton
 

vinod1975

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Jan 19, 2007
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Pagan Roots of the Bible by Robin Woodsong


"The Bible is the innerrent word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc.
Jerry Falwell
I have heard this assertion repeated over and over again. Inerrancy is Fundamentalist jargon that the Bible is completely free from error.
Most modern Pagans have the advantage of knowing this is not true, but some still show an almost superstitious reverence for the Bible. I have heard of some young witches turning to Christianity. I would not argue with their decisions but I would like to give them some background of the Bible so they can make fully informed choices.
Christians maintain that the difference between their religion and all other is that theirs is based on history, all others are based on myth. This is a convenient fiction that has allowed the Christian religion to evangelize one quarter of the world population. Some research into this claim shows that most of the incidents of the Old Testament can be found in the myths and legends of older cultures. The creation, the flood, the tower of Babel, the trials of Abraham, even the miracles of Moses are Jewish adaptations of older Pagan myths. Biblical scholars date the earliest of the Old Testament writing around 960 B.C.E. All of the Pagan myths quoted are much, much older.
We now have the strange situation were our Pagan myths were copied, rewritten and told back to us to show how poorly we uneducated Pagans understand God's will.
All of us are familiar with the story of Noah, but few of us has heard the Chaldean myth of the flood.
The deity Cronos appeared to him (Xisuthrus) in a vision and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Desius there would be a flood, by which mankind would be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations, and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep. After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisutrus sent out birds from the vessel. He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountain.1
The legends of Moses leading the children of Israel out of Egypt is a retelling of the story of Bacchus, the Sun-god.
Bacchus had a rod with which he performed miracles, and which he could change into a serpent at pleasure. he passed the Red Sea, dry shod, at the head of his army. By the same mighty wand, he drew water from the rock, and wherever they marched, the land flowed with wine, milk and honey.2
Some of the most fun I have had is finding some of the mistranslation of the Bible. This is my favorite.
And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had. Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh. Genesis 24:2
That's not what it said in Hebrew. In the Hebrew the servant grasped him by his soft parts, his testicles. It is obvious that in 1611 the translators of the King James Bible could not bring themselves to portray the father of the Jewish nation having his testicles held by his chief servant. This was a common practice in the ancient middle east. The word testament was derived from the same root word as testicles, I guess that is why the Christians have two of them.
Contradictions are throughout the Bible. In Mark 2:25 Jesus is talking to the Pharisees, a Jewish religious sect, about the Old Testament story of David taking holy bread from the temple.
Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungered, he, and they that were with him?
How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

The problem with this passage is that Abiathar was not high priest at the time. Lets look at the reference in 1 Samuel 21:1.
Then came David to Nob to Ahimelech the priest: and Ahimelech was afraid at the meeting of David, and said unto to him, Why are thou alone, and not a man with thee.
David goes on to take the shewbread and gives it to his men to eat.
Ahimelech was the priest, not Abiathar. Abiathar was the son of Ahimelech. Mark confused the two when he wrote his gospel. Another contradiction is in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. Matthew states that Jesus was born in Bethleham, then Joseph and Mary took Jesus and fled to Egypt because Herod was killing all children under two years of age. They returned from Egypt upon the death of Herod. Luke also states that Jesus was born in Bethleham, but after 33 days, the time of Mary's purification from childbirth, Jesus was presented in the temple in Jerusalem. If Herod was hunting children, a fact that no secular source mentions, he would have posted a few guards to get those presented to the temple. The holy family could not have been both in Egypt and in the temple in Jerusalem.
Jesus is the focal figure of the Christian religion. But how historical is he. We have seen that there are contradictions in the Gospels. The figure of Jesus is much more easily understood if one looks to the myths of surrounding cultures. which predate the birth of Jesus.
The admission that Christianity had the same doctrines surrounding Jesus as the Pagan religions hand surrounding their gods came from Justin Martyr in a letter to Emperor Adian.
In saying that all thing were made in this beautiful order by God, What do we seem to say more than Plato? When we teach a general conflagration, what do we teach more than the Stoics? By opposing the worship of the works of men's hands, we concur with Menander, the comedian; and by declaring the Logos, the first begotten of God, or master Jesus Christ, to be born of a virgin, without any human mixture, to be crucified and dead, and to have rose again, and ascended into heaven: we say no more in this, than what you say of those whom you style the Sons of Jove. For you need not be told what a parcel of sons, the writers most in vogue among you, assign to Jove; there's Mercury, Jove's interpreter, in imitation of the Logos, in worship among you. There's Aedsculapius, the physician, smitten by a thunderbolt, and after that ascending into heaven. There's Bacchus, torn to pieces; and Hercules, burnt to get rid of his pains. There's Pollux and Castor, the sons of Jove by Leda, and Perseus by Danae; and not to mention others, I would fain to know why you always deify the departed emperors and have a fellow at hand to make affidavit that he saw Caesar mount to heaven from the funeral pile?3
So how did Justin explain the similarities between Paganism and Christianity. Using blunt language, he was writing to fellow Christians, not the Emperor, he explains.
It having reached the devil's ears that the prophets had foretold that Christ would comehe (the devil) set the heathen poets to bring forward a great many who should be called the sons of Jove, (i.e., the Sons of God.) The devil laying his scheme in this, to get men to imagine that the true history of Christ was of the same character as the prodigious fables and poetic stories.4
This is the same explanation that is given today by Christians apologists.
Lets looks at some of the "myths and fables" that inspired the stories of Jesus.
One of the universal qualities of a savior is a virgin birth. These are some of the Pagan Gods who were born of a virgin; Bacchus, Horus, Adonis, Hercules, Crishna, Buddha and too many other gods, kings and prophets to mention.
Those who descended into Hell and rose again in three days; Zoroaster, Osiris, Horus, Adonis, Bacchus, Hercules, Mercury, Balder and Quetzalcotle.
Gods and prophets who will judge the dead; Buddha, Crishna, Oriris, Ormuzed, Aeacus of the Greeks.
Gods who were hung on a cross. Prometheus, Crishna, Indra.
Gods who were saviors; Bacchus, Hercules, Apollo, Serapis, Mithras, Hermes.
I know of no Christian doctrine that is original. From the Virgin Birth to the Second Coming, all teaching of Christianity are borrowed from Paganism.
So how did Christianity vanquish the Pagan religions. There is no one answer. One of the major reasons was the suppression of knowledge. The burning of the Library of Alexandria by Thophilus, the Bishop of Alexandria, was only the first step in keeping knowledge from the masses.
Theophilus's successor, Saint Cyril, roused a mob of monks and killed Hypatia, a Pagan philosopher and teacher. The Christians stripped her, dragged her into a church, clubbed her to death and cut her to pieces, scraped her flesh from her bones with shells and burned her remains. This ended the tradition of Greek philosophy in Alexandria. This scene was repeated over and over again as Christianity spread. The result were the Dark Ages. Ceisus, a Greek of the second century, ridiculed the Christians dependence on faith, with no reference to reason.
They are forever repeating; do not examine, only believe, and thy faith will make them blessed. Wisdom is bad thing in life; foolishness is to be preferred.5
After the Dark Ages the enlightenment brought back rational, critical thought. Along with rationalism came the seeds of humanist Christianity. Christianity not wedded to the innerency of the Bible. Humanist Christianity has much in common with the new traditions of Pagan thought.
In many ways Christianity is a wayward stepdaughter of Paganism. There will always be those in both religions who would continue the conflict and distrust. It is up to all of us to find our common ground and work towards, if not reconciliation, mutual tolerance.
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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The bible is written by mankind according to mankind's ability to write with what they knew at the time.
The only difference is that the writings of it was being guided by the Holy Spirit. (God inspired writings.)

That part of it is what Falwell should be alluding to, rather than every word written.
For it is the spiritual message of all those words that make the meaning of God's message to us.

But unless we are born of His spirit, we will not see it as such.

Yes, we are drawn to it, but may not understand it's words, until He touches our hearts and gives understanding.
That is where it is all at.

Peace>>>AJ:love9: