Our Egypt/Jordan vacation

SirJosephPorter

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Nov 7, 2008
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Both Egypt and Jordan are poor countries, they don’t have any oil. In Egypt the poverty is evident everywhere. We stayed in Cairo at Conrad hotel, one of the best hotels in Cairo. From our 12th storey room, we could see down into the side streets, where poverty was quite evident (old, run down buildings, junk at the top of the buildings and garbage on the street etc.).

The poverty was no so evident in Jordan (but then Jordan is a small country, with a population of 6 million). However, our tour guide told us that 65 % of Jordan population lives below the official poverty line in Jordan.

Tourism is one of the major sources of revenue both in Egypt and Jordan.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Nov 7, 2008
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While taking a taxi from Toronto airport, I got to talking with the taxi driver, and I heard a real success story. He was from a place called Jammu (apparently it is a city in Kashmir in India). He only knew a little bit of English, our conversation took place in broken English (and a bit of hand waving).

He told me that his daughter was studying Physics at University of Toronto and his son was studying medicine. Now, I know for a fact that it is very difficult to get into Toronto medicine program. It is highly competitive and rightly so. Most of the doctors of international renown work in Toronto. You get very good training in Toronto, that is why most candidates want to go there.

Our son did not apply to Toronto (he didn’t want to live in Toronto). However, it was to the credit of the poor taxi driver, that he brought up his kids so well, that both will become professionals. It is a huge jump from a poor taxi driver to a medical graduate of University of Toronto.

Such immigrants make Canada a richer, better country.
 

Downhome_Woman

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Dec 2, 2008
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Another big shock was alcohol (again, I had Saudi concept in my mind). I was surprised to see how liberal their policy is towards alcohol. Alcohol is available freely in most hotels and restaurants (at least those frequented by the tourists, I don’t know about those frequented exclusively by the natives).

Indeed, Egypt makes its own beers and wines (again, news to me). They make a beer, Stella, which I found quite adequate. They have fancy names for their wines, Omar Khayyam, Scheherazade, Obelisk etc.

Even more of a surprise, Jordan makes its own wines. They grow grapes around Nile in Egypt, but I fail to see how they can grow any grapes in Jordan (in greenhouses perhaps). Besides, I thought it would be against their religion. They make a cabernet sauvignon which is quite adequate (though it does not compare with the French stuff, of course).

I thought this holiday was going to be dry, but I was pleasantly surprised.
"Omar Khayyam"!?! Oh the memories - hope it's improved! The Saudi Arabia prohibition thing? funny thing is, Alcohol has only been banned in SA since around 1952. While Muslims may have been banned from alcohol, most Islamic countries have no problem with non Muslims imbibing - as long as they behave themselves.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Are you saying that Omar Khayyam was not a good wine when you tasted it? Well, I didn’t try Omar Khayyam, but I did try Scheherazade and Obelisk, I thought both were quite acceptable wines.

Jordan doesn’t have such fancy names for wines; they stick to Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

As to Saudi Arabia, I was told that they permit foreigners to drink alcohol in the privacy of their hotel rooms, but that is about it. They don’t serve alcohol in the restaurants; they don’t make their own wines and beers (at least that is what I have been told).

However, we know a doctor who has worked in Saudi Arabia for several years, and he told us that in many Saudi hospitals they have alcoholic wards (where alcoholics are treated). Go figure.
 

Nuggler

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Feb 27, 2006
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Don't mean to pee on your parade, SJ, but here's something interesting from "The Encyclopedia of the Nations".
Check out the division of wealth, decline in social services, control of the economy by the elite. The top 1 or 2 % as opposed to..........yadda yadda yadda........Stuff we are not taking seriously here, YET.

Methinks we great unwashed might do well to open our eyes and to protest greatly.

Just sayin.


Living standards in Egypt are low by international standards, and have declined consistently since 1990. According to United Nations figures, some 20 to 30 percent of the population live below the poverty line. Despite widespread poverty, however, uneven development has led to the emergence of an affluent class that controls most of the country's wealth and enjoys an elevated standard of living that includes shopping at centers that feature the best imported goods. Living in such Cairo suburbs as Garden City, al-Zamalek, and Nasr New City, the wealthy send their children to private schools and to universities abroad. Yet not far from these affluent neighborhoods, a significant number of poor Egyptians live in squalor, with poor and overcrowded housing, limited food supply, and inadequate access to clean water, good quality health care, or education. The extremes are reflected in the country's distribution of income: in 1996, the wealthiest 20 percent of Egyptians controlled 39 percent of the country's wealth, while the poorest 20 percent controlled only 9.8 percent of wealth.
Uneven development in Egypt has not only affected the urban population. Inequality in the distribution of wealth is dictated by geographical regions. Historically, the north of Egypt has been more prosperous and received more government attention than the predominantly rural south, which stretches from Beni Suef, 120 kilometers (75 miles) south of Cairo to the border with Sudan. The central government, which retains great power over the country, has always been based in the north, and has


GDP per Capita (US$) Country 1975 1980 1985 1990 1998 Egypt 516 731 890 971 1,146 United States 19,364 21,529 23,200 25,363 29,683 Saudi Arabia 9,658 11,553 7,437 7,100 6,516 Nigeria 301 314 230 258 256 SOURCE: United Nations. Human Development Report 2000; Trends in human development and per capita income.

Distribution of Income or Consumption by Percentage Share: Egypt Lowest 10% 4.4 Lowest 20% 9.8 Second 20% 13.2 Third 20% 16.6 Fourth 20% 21.4 Highest 20% 39.0 Highest 10% 25.0 Survey year: 1995 Note: This information refers to expenditure shares by percentiles of the population and is ranked by per capita expenditure. SOURCE: 2000 World Development Indicators [CD-ROM]. therefore based major economic activity in that area. According to the EIU Country Profile for 2000-01, almost one-half of economic and social establishments in the country are based in the northern cities of Cairo and Alexandria. This uneven development has fueled a cycle of rural-urban migration from south to north that has only started to abate since the mid-1990s. Migration has only served to aggravate the state of underdevelopment prevailing in the south.
The economic reforms launched by the Egyptian government in the early 1990s have been double-edged, severely affecting the lower classes and threatening to further erode popular support for the government. Both the rural and urban poor have suffered from the long decline in the quality of social services provided to Egyptians. A lack of adequate resources for schools and hospitals has meant that these services have declined in quality over the years. Despite this deterioration, 93 percent of primary level students are enrolled in schools, and a government-funded health-care system ensures that all Egyptians have access to some form of health care.
As a result of high inflation, which, at its peak, reached 28.5 percent in 1989, the middle and lower classes have seen their living standards erode since the 1980s. The problem has been compounded by the government's reduction of subsidies on basic foodstuffs and certain budget controls on public services since 1991. The government's awareness of the political implications of the complete lifting of subsidies has slowed down the implementation of IMF-mandated price deregulation. In 1991, to soften the impact of these measures on the poor and those affected by privatization, the government established the Social Fund for Development, a US$613 million project funded by the European Union, the World Bank, and the United Nations Development Program (UNDP). The fund is a job creation project aimed at training and finding jobs for workers displaced as a result of privatization. However, poverty remains endemic in Egypt despite these efforts.

 

Downhome_Woman

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Dec 2, 2008
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Are you saying that Omar Khayyam was not a good wine when you tasted it? Well, I didn’t try Omar Khayyam, but I did try Scheherazade and Obelisk, I thought both were quite acceptable wines.

Jordan doesn’t have such fancy names for wines; they stick to Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

As to Saudi Arabia, I was told that they permit foreigners to drink alcohol in the privacy of their hotel rooms, but that is about it. They don’t serve alcohol in the restaurants; they don’t make their own wines and beers (at least that is what I have been told).

However, we know a doctor who has worked in Saudi Arabia for several years, and he told us that in many Saudi hospitals they have alcoholic wards (where alcoholics are treated). Go figure.
In 1977, Omar Khayaam was JUST acceptable - and that was for a 21 year old that had yet to develop a palette. :)I have no doubt though, that the past years have allowed them to improve their wine just as it has allowed me to improve!
What can I say - there is nothing like time, trial and error to aid in growth - and that goes for humans as well as vines.
I've read about acceptance of alcohol in Saudi Arabia - it seems to be spotty at best. They 'allow' foreigners to drink in their homes, but then they also go to homes and arrest foreigners who are drinking - there seems to be no real legal consistency. I've also heard the same thing regarding alcoholism. But it's to be expected. Any time you prohibit and repress something, it always goes underground and usually becomes more extreme.