I think if a child was brought up in a household that told a child 'This is what life is', then I'd agree with your hypothesis. But you have no idea how we discuss religion in our home. You have no idea how it is presented to our children, and, if the church itself presents something, how it is duscussed at home and how we talk to our kids about it. Perhaps the key for my family was always being able to argue what we were being told by the church. When mass was ended, and we had a half hour in the vehicle to drive home, we would debate what had been discussed, and we were never disallowed an opinion, even if it flew in the face of what the priest had said. It made it simple for my siblings and I to find our own way in the world, our own truths and our own ideas. You notion that my children will be incapable of choosing for themselves down the road is simply not a convincing one. And I'm glad that you will say no more on the subject, as I suspect we would simply keep talking in circles.
Origin of Universe: God <vs> Big Bang/Non-God theories
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I think if a child was brought up in a household that told a child 'This is what life is', then I'd agree with your hypothesis. But you have no idea how we discuss religion in our home. You have no idea how it is presented to our children, and, if the church itself presents something, how it is duscussed at home and how we talk to our kids about it. Perhaps the key for my family was always being able to argue what we were being told by the church. When mass was ended, and we had a half hour in the vehicle to drive home, we would debate what had been discussed, and we were never disallowed an opinion, even if it flew in the face of what the priest had said. It made it simple for my siblings and I to find our own way in the world, our own truths and our own ideas. You notion that my children will be incapable of choosing for themselves down the road is simply not a convincing one. And I'm glad that you will say no more on the subject, as I suspect we would simply keep talking in circles.
Science can explain everything...ScienTISTS can only explain so much. In other words, there is an explanation for everything, we just don't know what that explanation is.
I get the picture very well. You are talking on the issue again...tsk tsk. ; )
But in all seriousness, I get that you are saying it is a learned response. From what I can gather, you are categorizing it with classical conditioning. Operant training wouldn't fit, since there's no real reinforcer, observational learning wouldn't really fit either, since again, there's no real motivator. Classical conditioning is the closest to what you seem to think, since it is harder to unlearn, as it is reflexive, not cognitive. I totally get the hypothesis behind the way you think it will affect my children. I just disagree that it will play out the way you expect, because there are many, many other factors in my children's learning environment that come into play.
Well I would say no more about the subject if you didn't keep it alive.
And I'll just say now that if your family had some way fo diffusing the crap then your family did the job. Perhaps that's how they saved your siblings. I hope you and your husband do the same for your own child. I like to think of it as a process of natural selection. Some children will be prepared by the time they reach puberty to go on to great things, some will be severely handicapped, and some will become clergy. This is not to say that a child brought up as a christian cannot rise to the top with the cream, but it's less likely IMO. Remember the 85% and the 15%? I know you will do the best that you are personally capable of doing! ;-)
Gotta go now.
I think you're refering to the law of thermodynamics. Life can be created and destroyed, the fact we're here is evidence of that and the fossil record is full of species that have ceased to exist. Something like 99% of the lifeforms that have existed on Earth are no longer around.
The fact that life exists on Earth is evidence of an origin even if we don't understand the exact process. As L.Gilbert pointed out, given the laws of physics and chemistry and an incredibly long time, it's likely life will develope in the proper conditions. This doesn't take away from the miracle of life in my opinion. The process itself is divine as far as I'm concerned.
I went to catholic school four years, first communion, catachism, novenas, etc., and when I turned
approx. 12, I began to think, instead of follow, and didn't take me long to explain to myself that
all of this ceremony and teachings, (which were sometimes very scary), were "silly", and there isn't
any god, and I have never looked back, just can't believe in such things.
But, with science, it changes constantly, and will continue to do that, they can explain much
more now, than they could 100 yrs ago, and 100 yrs from now, much more again, and on and on.
In not so many years, humans will be travelling all over the universe, from planet to planet, and
after that, who knows. I envy the people who are alive when they meet other humans from other
planets, as they will.
I have to ask you talloola, because I'm curious.. do you count yourself as being simply more intelligent than those who are spiritual? because to hear lieexpsr tell it, you must be quite a genius to break through the programming. :angel8:
Absolutely not, I wouldn't be so arrogant, I am "just" saying it like it was, don't have a clue how others did or did not handle their early religious education. In our family, religion was not discussed
at all, it was only my dad who was catholic, my mom was "high church of england", (not sure what
exactly that is), so all the time I was in catholic school, nothing I ever learned was discussed at home, so everything stayed in my head, and I guess I slowly arranged all of that information, and
at 12, it all came together, just naturally and calmly, and I could no longer believe in god.
I did attend church from time to time as I grew up, and I was married in the catholic church, (my
husband's family (Italians) are all catholics, and it was the usual Italian wedding, all the trimmings,
would never do it that way again, or if I could turn back the clock, it would be different, but at 20
how could one ever interrupt an Italian "plan", can't get a word in edgewise, and I am so quiet, that
I just stood back and "let it happen".
We introduced our children to catachism, but they slowly let it go, we told them to learn about
religion, so that they could make a decision. One daughter is very religious, one is so so, and the
other two, don't believe in god at all.
Sorry, that's not quite what I meant. The term "life cannot be created nor destroyed" refers to the fact that all of life we see infront of us was created from life previous to itself. When a human baby is created, it is created from two sex cells or gametes which contain genetic info. It is not created from nothing, but from a previously living organism.
The reason there are few life forms in the present day is due to the many mass extinctions the earth has experienced over its lifetime. The theory is that every 67 million years or so (I think that's the right number) our solar system comes awefully close to a group of asteroids which bombard our planet and kill off a lot of things.
I think I already mentioned the same thing previously, just reworded. The earth before its atmosphere was very violent and contained mostly the basic elements, but there were a few special places (like under water beside volcanic vents) that provided a chance for organic compounds and various amino acids to form, which led to the creation of RNA and a protocell.
I don't know if life is a miracle or a chance, and I can't see which I believe to be true, because I've accepted that I really don't know. How I came to be isn't nearly as important as what I'll become in the near future, as far as I'm concerned.
Science is a wonderful thing. I don't understand why there are so many people out there who are determined to snuff out the creative ideas our communities can put forth. I'm not sure if science can discover what "god" is, only time will tell.
For me, it is very simple, there is "nothing" out there to discover, it is all in the heads of the people
who believe in god, so, it's allready been discovered right here. And, you said it right, they are
"creative ideas" and nothing more.
No, you can't say that given enough time etc. that life will develop. If you want to say that then you have to back it up with scientific hypothesis. The hypothesis that life will only begin in 1 of 1 billion circumstances on planets which are suitable for sustaining some kind of life form is backed by scinece. People should not make unfounded statements. Unless you are prepared to back it up with something concrete.
You see, the problem is, the planet earth could be the only planet which supports life. That's not based on ancient religious dogma because that holds no water at all. It is based on science. I hope that doesn't confuse the issue for you.
I was speaking of people in general, not specifically scientists, and not specific instances.
Perhaps because people realize that things without brains are incapable of being sentient. Can anyone point to the brains of the universe(s)?
I can "see" my Altima sitting in the driveway. The idea came to be a reality. God has never done
anything of the sort. When the automobile was a "creative idea", there probably was many people,
who didn't believe the "idea", but it became reality.
Exactly. Most people don't think deeply enough to be able to explain themselves to themselves. They are content to follow others' philosophies like the various theologies, atheist philosophies like Dawkins' ideas, etc. Your life's an event of self-discovery, not a thing for others explain to you what you are.