Only French speaking persons permitted to sponsor family class immigrants in Quebec

[no color]

Not sure how many of you folks in the rest of Canada know about the laws here in Quebec allowing for discrimination based on language. Well, there are "recent" new laws which amount to a clear violation of civil rights.

French speaking persons living in Quebec can sponsor a close family member, while English speaking persons no longer can.

Several years ago, my Husband was able to sponsor me, an American citizen to move to Canada (Quebec). Like myself, my husband is an English speaking person, who was educated in English in his home town of Montreal, where we both now live.

We were recently looking at sponsoring another close family member, however although we qualify and will easily get approved by Immigration Canada, we cannot complete the sponsorship as the Quebec forms now need to be filled out in French. I am an American, and my husband was educated in English in Montreal, so neither of us are capable of filling out the forms in French. This law was not around 9-10 years ago as my husband did not have to fill out any French forms in order to legally sponsor me to move to Montreal, otherwise we would not be here.

My question is, why have English schools and universities in Montreal if you are going to deny civil rights to citizens who are part of the English speaking community?

We are now seriously thinking of moving to the US as I will be able to sponsor my husband and where we know our civil rights will be respected.

 

[tracy]

I don't understand. Are they only allowing French speakers to sponsor, or are they just requiring the forms be completed in French?

 

[no color]

I don't understand. Are they only allowing French speakers to sponsor, or are they just requiring the forms be completed in French?

They are requiring the forms to be completed in French. This is a major stumbling block for us as neither me nor my husband have any proficiency in French, we are therefore excluded in the process and cannnot sponsor our family member. :-(

 

[Said1]

They are requiring the forms to be completed in French. This is a major stumbling block for us as neither me nor my husband have any proficiency in French, we are therefore excluded in the process and cannnot sponsor our family member. :-(

Can't you get someone to help you?

 

[tracy]

You can't just hire an interpreter? There are plenty of bilingual people in the province who could help you. I had to do that to get my living permit in the Czech republic. I guarantee you, it was a lot harder to find an English- Czech speaker in BC than it would be to find an English-French speaker in Quebec

 

[tracy]

Better yet: why not hire an attorney who is billingual to represent you in your immigration matters?

I realize dealing with immigration is a pain in the butt. I'm the other side of the fence (a Canadian living in the US). I get treated very poorly fairly often by US immigration authorities. All I can do is suck it up and fulfill whatever ridiculous new requirement they come up with. I definitely understand your frustration, but I choose to just get over it and do what I need to do to stay. If it becomes too much I may move home like you are considering, but for now I'll suck it up.

 

[Machjo]

Not sure how many of you folks in the rest of Canada know about the laws here in Quebec allowing for discrimination based on language. Well, there are "recent" new laws which amount to a clear violation of civil rights.

French speaking persons living in Quebec can sponsor a close family member, while English speaking persons no longer can.

Several years ago, my Husband was able to sponsor me, an American citizen to move to Canada (Quebec). Like myself, my husband is an English speaking person, who was educated in English in his home town of Montreal, where we both now live.

We were recently looking at sponsoring another close family member, however although we qualify and will easily get approved by Immigration Canada, we cannot complete the sponsorship as the Quebec forms now need to be filled out in French. I am an American, and my husband was educated in English in Montreal, so neither of us are capable of filling out the forms in French. This law was not around 9-10 years ago as my husband did not have to fill out any French forms in order to legally sponsor me to move to Montreal, otherwise we would not be here.

My question is, why have English schools and universities in Montreal if you are going to deny civil rights to citizens who are part of the English speaking community?

We are now seriously thinking of moving to the US as I will be able to sponsor my husband and where we know our civil rights will be respected.

I'm a Franco-Ontarian, so I'll take my own province as an example of where I stand on this, and essentially believe in a parallel policy for Quebec with regards to French.

Personally, I'm in favour of but one official language of government administration for reasons of efficiency. That being the case, even though I'm a French Canadian living in Ontario, I oppose official bilingualism. As far as I'm concerned, the Ontario government should operate in English only. Of course I believe in individual bilingualism as part of a well-rounded education, but even then I'd define individual bilingualism to mean knowledge of the official language plus an additional language of each individual school's choosing. In other words, I believe that English ought to be compulsory as either the language of instruction or the second language of the school, as per the school's decision, as long as the school can guarantee that all students will learn English well. I also believe that this should apply to all migrants (including from other parts of Canada) to Ontario. If you want to relocate to Ontario, learn English first.

Having said that, however, I believe that Ontario does have a responsibility towards those whom it has accepted already, so any such policy should not be retroactive, but merely take effect as of now. In other words, those French-speaking adult Ontarians who don't know English should still be provided with services in French at least in their own local communities. After all, it's the province that has failed to educate them properly in English, it's the province that has failed them. That being the case, the province now has a responsibility towards them while ensuring the same mistake is not repeated with their children.

I would say a parallel policy should apply to Quebec.

This being the case, it would be somewhat hypocritical of me to then support official bilingualism in Quebec. Having said that, however, I would also argue that while the province of Quebec has a duty to ensure that all of its youth learn Frech well, either as a first or second language, and has a right to refuse migrants to Quebec who don't know French, I also believe that, like Ontario with its monolingual French speakers, the Wuebec schools have failed their monolingual adult English speakers, and that being the case, Quebec now has a responsibility to provide them with services in English, and that includes immigrants it has already accepted, while ensuring it doesn't repeat the same mistake with its next generation.

What you might not realise is that official bilingualism is estimated to cost Canada 16 billion Canadian dollars per year. A regional model whereby each local community would have but one official language would certainly restrict mobility for those who don't know both English and French, but would also save money. Essentially it would be a trade off.

 

[Machjo]

I don't understand. Are they only allowing French speakers to sponsor, or are they just requiring the forms be completed in French?

They're just requiring the forms be filled out in French. Her English just wasn't clear on that one;-)

 

[Machjo]

They are requiring the forms to be completed in French. This is a major stumbling block for us as neither me nor my husband have any proficiency in French, we are therefore excluded in the process and cannnot sponsor our family member. :-(

As far as I'm concerned, the Quebec public school system had a duty to make sure your husband learnt French well, and Quebec immigration had a duty to make sure you knew it well too. In both cases the government failed. As such, having failed you both, the government now has a moral duty to provide you with forms in English while ensuring not to make the same mistake with your children, ensuring that at least their learn English well so as to not fall into the same mess you have.

 

[Machjo]

Can't you get someone to help you?

Seeing that the government failed to teach them the official language well and to compensate by providing them with forms in English, the government should thus provide them with the help needed.

 

[tracy]

Seeing that the government failed to teach them the official language well and to compensate by providing them with forms in English, the government should thus provide them with the help needed.

If there is one thing dealing with immigraton has taught me, it's that "should" doesn't matter:lol:

 

[Tyr]

Not sure how many of you folks in the rest of Canada know about the laws here in Quebec allowing for discrimination based on language. Well, there are "recent" new laws which amount to a clear violation of civil rights.

French speaking persons living in Quebec can sponsor a close family member, while English speaking persons no longer can.

Several years ago, my Husband was able to sponsor me, an American citizen to move to Canada (Quebec). Like myself, my husband is an English speaking person, who was educated in English in his home town of Montreal, where we both now live.

We were recently looking at sponsoring another close family member, however although we qualify and will easily get approved by Immigration Canada, we cannot complete the sponsorship as the Quebec forms now need to be filled out in French. I am an American, and my husband was educated in English in Montreal, so neither of us are capable of filling out the forms in French. This law was not around 9-10 years ago as my husband did not have to fill out any French forms in order to legally sponsor me to move to Montreal, otherwise we would not be here.

My question is, why have English schools and universities in Montreal if you are going to deny civil rights to citizens who are part of the English speaking community?

We are now seriously thinking of moving to the US as I will be able to sponsor my husband and where we know our civil rights will be respected.

Discrimination has always been the basis of most quebec laws including education and employment. Sponsorship should come as no surprise

 

[Machjo]

Better yet: why not hire an attorney who is billingual to represent you in your immigration matters?

I realize dealing with immigration is a pain in the butt. I'm the other side of the fence (a Canadian living in the US). I get treated very poorly fairly often by US immigration authorities. All I can do is suck it up and fulfill whatever ridiculous new requirement they come up with. I definitely understand your frustration, but I choose to just get over it and do what I need to do to stay. If it becomes too much I may move home like you are considering, but for now I'll suck it up.

This is something I fully agree with. Though a Canadian myself, I'd had to deal with immigration matters for my ex-wife before, and the buraucracy was ridiculous.

In my opinion, immigration should be straightforward. If you know the official language of the local community you're moving to, have no outstanding criminal charges against you, and can prove yor ability to find a job locally, you get in no questions asked. if not, you don't even get to set foot on Canadian soil.

I believe the way it ought to be is for the government to be really bad-ass tough with you before you set foot on Canadian soil, but once you make it to Canadian soil, you should be treated like any other Canadian. Right now, it seems to be the opposite. It's easy to get to Canada, and then hell begins and gets dragged on. In my opinion, that's not fair. I wouldn't even expect cattle to be treated like that, let alone human beings.

 

[Machjo]

If there is one thing dealing with immigraton has taught me, it's that "should" doesn't matter:lol:

I fully agree. I've dealt with immigration before, too, and it's always been either corrupt or incompetent.

What I wouldn't mind seeing would be some kind of 'tough first, kind later' movement promnoting a tough approach to getting into Canada, but a kinder approach once you're in. This would give immigrants peace of mind in that though they would know that once they go to the Canadian embassy in their country the embassy will drag them through hell to make sure they meet all of the highest qualifications, they would also know that once they set foot on Canadian soil, the hell will be defenitely over and it should be smooth sailing from there, like touching base in baseball. Once in Canada, the government should just back off.

And to avoid corruption, It should be based on an objective testing system. You take the language test, present a police report, prove that you've got a guaranteed job offer already or that your spouse does, and you're in. A tough approach, but fair, objective, sensical, and ensures no more problems once you touch base. This way, fewer people would come to Canada, but fewer would leave too.

 

[Machjo]

Discrimination has always been the basis of most quebec laws including education and employment. Sponsorship should come as no surprise

I was dealing with immigration in British columbia. My ex was black, and the stories of racism that I'd heard were sickening. So it's not just Quebec. It's everywhere. It'
s part of the scourge of nationalism. If you're not a citizen, you're sub-human as far as they're concerned.

 

[no color]

Better yet: why not hire an attorney who is billingual to represent you in your immigration matters?

We've never had to hire an attorney before to fill out forms and we are not going to start now.

Explain to me how this makes sense. A French speaking Canadian anywhere in Canada can fill out sponsorship forms in French to sponsor a close family member to come live in Canada, however an English speaking Canadian is not entitled to the same rights. A person in his/her own home town can't sponsor a family member because they cannot fill out the forms as they can only be filled out in French.

When we mention note of this clear violation of civil rights to family, friends and officials in the U.S., they will probably not believe us. However, we'll just tell them to look it up for themselves at http://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/publications/en/sponsorship/guide-sponsor.pdf, bottom of page 9.

I've almost convinced my husband to packup here, sell our home and move back to the U.S.

 

[L Gilbert]

Nocolor, it is because the policy makers in Quebec are protectionist, exclusionist, paranoid troglodytes. The answer is as simple as that. So it doesn't make any sense to those of us with a grasp on the realities of the rest of the planet.

 

[tracy]

Being stubborn or indignant are never helpful when dealing with immigration in Canada or the US. Unfortunately for you, you live in a province whose official language is French and you live in the only province in Canada which controls its own immigration. One of the things the Quebec government looks for in immigrants is the ability to speak French. It doesn't make sense to me, I agree with you. My point is, it doesn't matter if it makes sense. A lot of things the government does don't make sense. I jump through all kinds of stupid hoops to maintain my legal immigrant status here because this is where I want to live right now. If the only problem I had was getting someone to help me fill out a form in another language, I'd be thrilled!

You have several options: fill out the forms in French, stay without your family member immigrating with you or go back to the US. If getting a translator to help you fill out a form is too much trouble, that's probably a sign you don't really want to live there that much.

 

[Machjo]

We've never had to hire an attorney before to fill out forms and we are not going to start now.

Explain to me how this makes sense. A French speaking Canadian anywhere in Canada can fill out sponsorship forms in French to sponsor a close family member to come live in Canada, however an English speaking Canadian is not entitled to the same rights. A person in his/her own home town can't sponsor a family member because they cannot fill out the forms as they can only be filled out in French.

When we mention note of this clear violation of civil rights to family, friends and officials in the U.S., they will probably not believe us. However, we'll just tell them to look it up for themselves at http://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/publications/en/sponsorship/guide-sponsor.pdf, bottom of page 9.

I've almost convinced my husband to packup here, sell our home and move back to the U.S.

That's the scourge of nationalism. Quebec is even more so than the rest of Canada? Hard to say. I'd say it just manifests itself differently. In Quebec it manifests itself through language policy. In English Canada it manifests itself through either immigration policy, francophobia or anti-Americanism.

 

[Machjo]

Being stubborn or indignant are never helpful when dealing with immigration in Canada or the US. Unfortunately for you, you live in a province whose official language is French and you live in the only province in Canada which controls its own immigration. One of the things the Quebec government looks for in immigrants is the ability to speak French. It doesn't make sense to me, I agree with you. My point is, it doesn't matter if it makes sense. A lot of things the government does don't make sense. I jump through all kinds of stupid hoops to maintain my legal immigrant status here because this is where I want to live right now. If the only problem I had was getting someone to help me fill out a form in another language, I'd be thrilled!

You have several options: fill out the forms in French, stay without your family member immigrating with you or go back to the US. If getting a translator to help you fill out a form is too much trouble, that's probably a sign you don't really want to live there that much.

You have some good points here. I can understand why Quebec would want everyone to know French (saves government money on translation and helps to maintain cultural unity through integration). But once the government accepts you, it has an obligation towards you.

Having said that, I agree that it doesn't sound like she really wants to stay there considering that it would be quite easy in Montreal to find a friend to help her. And so she's using this as an excuse to leave Quebec. If this is the only issue, I've encountered worse in Vancouver.