Oil prices continue to rise.

[JonB2004]

Today, oil prices closed at $75.17 U.S. a barrel. People are paying more and more at the pumps everyday. And it isn't helping that gas stations can set their price at whatever they want.

Should the government make set gas prices?

I think they should.

 

[Toro]

RE: Oil prices continue t

No.

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Increasing Pump Prices

It should perhaps be noted here that Gilles Duceppe, M.P., the Member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie and the Leader of the Bloc Québécois, has pointed out the same concerns that you have, JonB2004. M. Duceppe voudrait que le très honourable Stephen Harper, C.P., M.P., le député de Calgary-Sud-Ouest et le Premier ministre du Canada (et son gouvernement du Canada) agir pour mettre en œvre le plan d'action du Bloc Québécois, au sujet des prix de l'essence. (For a translation, please see ¶1.) It would appear that members of the opposition are starting to think that the Government should be doing something, too.

Gilles Duceppe[/color], M.P.,]Le prix de l'essence et les profits des pétrolières ne cessent d'augmenter depuis près de cinq ans. Pendant ce temps, le gouvernement fédéral clame son impuissance tout en offrant à l'industrie pétrolière un régime fiscal des plus avantageux, dont elle profite pour réduire ses contributions à l'État année après année.

Cliquetez içi pour lire le communiqué entier en français.
This article is not available in English at this time.

:?: Les Sources
1. Cliquetez içi pour le site Web du Bloc Québécois.

:?: Translation (Trying to develop my second language, le français!)
(¶1) Mr. Duceppe would like the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., the Member for Calgary Southwest and the Prime Minister of Canada (and his Government of Canada) to start work on implementing the action plan put forth by the Bloc Québécois.

 

[LittleRunningGag]

If you want to cause a gas shortage, yes. If not, you'll have to leave it alone.

Remember, if the government tries to force oil companies (the ones running the gas stations) to reduce their prices, those oil companies will just sell elsewhere. If they can get a better price for their product, they will. That means that there will be less for Canadians, and then you'll be bitching about not having any gas for your car.

Plus, you'll really piss off the west. They're still smarting from the last round of this.

 

[Finder]

Its hard to set prices when you live in a semi-free market enviroment. That would mean you would either have to enforce gas at the pump by determining how much profit these oil companies can make at the pump. Or you could lower taxes, but I think gas tax money should go to ways out of this problem or funding for new tech. Also we could always decide to nationalize our oil and keep it only for ourselves and perhaps set up large national reserves. By far this would be the best solution but also one which I think the americans would most likely call us communists and we would be "liberated" the next day.

 

[quinton]

No to setting prices, because that would probably make gas cheaper.

The more expensive gas the better in hopes that it will keep cars off the road. So far, gas is not expensive enough as consumers drive more and buy bigger vehicles.

Further compounding the problem is never-ending population growth.

The more expensive gasoline the better.

 

[Toro]

RE: Oil prices continue t

You can't be an environmentalist and want to keep the price of gas down.

 

[Canucklehead]

Re: RE: Oil prices continue t

You can't be an environmentalist and want to keep the price of gas down.

Sure you can!

It's wasteful uses that are the problem here. If we'd stop letting companies waste the oil on crappy plastic toys that you get with a meal-deal, over packaged products, cheap quality plastics that are designed to be replaced etc then we'd sure have a lot more to go around.

Personally I prefer nationalising all natural resources since they are there to benefit our own people first and foremost. Supply our own people cheaply and reap the profits from 'outsiders' who want what we have.

 

[Toro]

Here is the value of all energy companies on the TSE 300 as of yesterday

Advantage Energy Income Fund $1,330,458,000
AltaGas Income Trust $1,602,279,360
ARC Energy Trust $5,445,494,400
Baytex Energy Trust $1,454,943,000
Blackrock Ventures Inc $1,474,685,500
Bonavista Energy Trust $3,730,721,720
Calfrac Well Services Ltd $1,319,977,890
Cameco Corp $16,604,575,000
Canadian Natural Resources Ltd $38,461,515,080
Canadian Oil Sands Trust $16,342,900,000
Canetic Resources Trust $5,071,496,640
CCS Income Trust $1,597,901,760
Centurion Energy International Inc $1,149,729,460
CHC Helicopter Corp $1,259,193,510
Compton Petroleum Corp $2,099,839,500
Connacher Oil and Gas Ltd $600,342,600
Crescent Point Energy Trust $976,438,940
Cyries Energy Inc $588,582,350
Daylight Energy Trust $813,412,640
Duvernay Oil Corp $2,168,712,750
Enbridge Inc $11,632,326,000
EnCana Corp $49,780,827,000
Enerflex Systems Ltd $701,978,400
Enerplus Resources Fund $7,052,340,000
Ensign Energy Services Inc $3,708,836,940
Esprit Energy Trust $884,552,140
Fairborne Energy Trust $765,600,000
First Calgary Petroleums Ltd $1,991,967,360
Focus Energy Trust $917,175,000
Fort Chicago Energy Partners LP $1,540,479,600
Freehold Royalty Trust $1,019,865,600
Harvest Energy Trust $1,871,359,560
Husky Energy Inc $29,909,295,000
Imperial Oil Ltd $42,163,545,000
Inter Pipeline Fund $1,818,231,200
International Uranium Corp $501,649,350
InterOil Corp $492,271,440
Ketch Resources Trust $656,122,650
Keyera Facilities Income Fund $1,328,762,500
NAL Oil & Gas Trust $1,472,142,300
Nexen Inc $17,848,987,350
Niko Resources Ltd $2,552,977,160
NuVista Energy Ltd $761,670,000
OPTI Canada Inc $3,656,800,200
Paramount Energy Trust $1,756,041,780
Paramount Resources Ltd $2,964,096,720
Pason Systems Inc $1,271,259,000
Pembina Pipeline Income Fund $1,974,973,980
Pengrowth Energy Trust $3,875,103,360
Penn West Energy Trust $7,241,911,500
Petrobank Energy & Resources Ltd $885,080,000
Petro-Canada $29,465,950,800
Petrofund Energy Trust $3,222,347,010
Peyto Energy Trust $2,957,452,600
Precision Drilling Trust $5,030,986,100
PrimeWest Energy Trust $2,742,482,020
Progress Energy Trust $1,291,992,240
Provident Energy Trust $2,571,088,260
Real Resources Inc $901,125,880
Rider Resources Ltd $797,008,000
Savanna Energy Services Corp $908,991,920
ShawCor Ltd $1,555,974,000
Shell Canada Ltd $36,915,108,220
Shiningbank Energy Income $1,766,087,400
Suncor Energy Inc $46,205,858,400
Talisman Energy Inc $24,722,617,500
Tesco Corp $867,398,400
TransCanada Corp $16,541,662,200
Trican Well Service Ltd $3,200,814,800
Trilogy Energy Trust $1,820,143,540
Trinidad Energy Services Income Trust $1,523,798,100
True Energy Trust $626,930,080
Uex Corp $798,968,560
UTS Energy Corp $3,183,150,000
Vermilion Energy Trust $2,094,643,080
Western Oil Sands Inc $5,996,952,480

Total $506,800,959,780

Oil deposits owned by foreigners (conservative rough guess) $100,000,000,000

Premium to buy my shares 30%

Total cost to Canadians to nationalize the oil industry $788,841,247,714

Sure is nice to fantasize, eh?

 

[LittleRunningGag]

Personally I prefer nationalising all natural resources since they are there to benefit our own people first and foremost. Supply our own people cheaply and reap the profits from 'outsiders' who want what we have.

Plus you get the added benefit of collapsing the Alberta economy.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Oil prices continue to rise.

Personally I prefer nationalising all natural resources since they are there to benefit our own people first and foremost. Supply our own people cheaply and reap the profits from 'outsiders' who want what we have.

Plus you get the added benefit of collapsing the Alberta economy.

Well, you get the added benefit of a separating Alberta.

 

[Canucklehead]

RE: Oil prices continue t

Cost to nationalise is whatever the government deems a fair price. The 'free market' has no say if that's the course which is chosen. If my house, on the free market, is worth $300K and the gov't wants to expropriate it, they are not obligated under any circumstances to pay me 300K.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Oil prices continue t

Cost to nationalise is whatever the government deems a fair price. The 'free market' has no say if that's the course which is chosen. If my house, on the free market, is worth $300K and the gov't wants to expropriate it, they are not obligated under any circumstances to pay me 300K.

Hey, LittleRunningGag. You were wrong to say collapsing Alberta economy. You should have said collapsing "Canadian" economy.

 

[Canucklehead]

Re: RE: Oil prices continue to rise.

Personally I prefer nationalising all natural resources since they are there to benefit our own people first and foremost. Supply our own people cheaply and reap the profits from 'outsiders' who want what we have.

Plus you get the added benefit of collapsing the Alberta economy.

Well, you get the added benefit of a separating Alberta.

Yea, there is that little contistutional issue with resources being provincial jurisdiction... which was a bonehead move in the first place but in this day and age when we have a consumerist society, someone sure as hell needs to make a change and we have seen that private industry is not capable of anything but natural destruction and profits.

 

[LittleRunningGag]

Re: RE: Oil prices continue t

Cost to nationalise is whatever the government deems a fair price. The 'free market' has no say if that's the course which is chosen. If my house, on the free market, is worth $300K and the gov't wants to expropriate it, they are not obligated under any circumstances to pay me 300K.

Hey, LittleRunningGag. You were wrong to say collapsing Alberta economy. You should have said collapsing "Canadian" economy.

Well of course, but the connection is harder to see.

Could you imagine the effect of nationalising the second largest oil reserves in the world? 8O The global economy would probably collaps.

 

[Canucklehead]

Re: RE: Oil prices continue t

Cost to nationalise is whatever the government deems a fair price. The 'free market' has no say if that's the course which is chosen. If my house, on the free market, is worth $300K and the gov't wants to expropriate it, they are not obligated under any circumstances to pay me 300K.

Hey, LittleRunningGag. You were wrong to say collapsing Alberta economy. You should have said collapsing "Canadian" economy.

Well of course, but the connection is harder to see.

Could you imagine the effect of nationalising the second largest oil reserves in the world? 8O The global economy would probably collaps.

I honestly can't see that. If we made guarantees that we would not turn off the taps, then the jittery little pansies who whip up a frenzy to drive up prices would have little to worry about. There would be little global effect on oil prices if Canadians are charged $30/barrel (that's $12-14 above production cost) and the 'outsiders' are charged 'free market' rates. Hell they should have no problem with that at all since THEY still get to play in the free-market cesspool they enjoy so much.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Oil prices continue t

We did have a national energy program at one time but the corporatist screwed it up for us, we should nationalize and drive the pricks out, it would be cheaper then keeping it private and we could address polution. Hey it works for Hugo and Venesula why not Canada.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Oil prices continue t

Cost to nationalise is whatever the government deems a fair price. The 'free market' has no say if that's the course which is chosen. If my house, on the free market, is worth $300K and the gov't wants to expropriate it, they are not obligated under any circumstances to pay me 300K.

Hey, LittleRunningGag. You were wrong to say collapsing Alberta economy. You should have said collapsing "Canadian" economy.

Well of course, but the connection is harder to see.

Could you imagine the effect of nationalising the second largest oil reserves in the world? 8O The global economy would probably collaps.

Capital flight. Collapsing currency. Soaring interest rates. Unemployment. Destruction of Canadian wealth since the majority of the shares are held in Canadian institutions such as mutual funds, pension funds, insurance companies, RRSPs, etc. Not to mention the hundreds of billions of taxpayers dollars that would be required to fund the venture, which would be a tremendous squeeze on the economy.

There's a reason why almost all of the national oil companies have been privatized over the past decade - they were inefficient, poorly run, destroyed wealth, political institutions, etc. This has already been done and has been a failure.

Oil exploration and development is a highly risky business. The oil industry did not earn its cost of capital in the 1980s and 1990s. Government shouldn't be risking taxpayers money on such risky ventures, especially when there is no risk to just taxing the stuff.

Nationalization is a bad, bad idea.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Oil prices continue t

We did have a national energy program at one time but the corporatist screwed it up for us, we should nationalize and drive the pricks out, it would be cheaper then keeping it private and we could address polution. Hey it works for Hugo and Venesula why not Canada.

I didn't realize you equated Canada's economic structure with Venezuela's, there DB.

I'll let you in on a fact.

It's not.

 

[Jay]

http://www.taxes.ca/blog/archives/gas_tax/index.php