Neil Young blasts Harper government for allowing development of Alberta oilsands

[captain morgan]

Oh it's the let's complain about everything Neil hasn't complained about game.

I love that game!

Yes, I agree.

How about Neil's LincVolt?... An impressive auto indeed.

At around $1 Million it is surely something that is a must-have for any budget.

I wonder if Neils uses environmentally friendly battery acid in his '59.... You know, that kind of eco-acid and those 'green' heavy metals that are sooooo beneficial to the environment when the spent battery gets tossed?

Ohhh, and the biofuel... Any thoughts on how may impoverished families might be impacted by the higher cost of food?

Yep, a win-win for everyone, especially for those on fixed and low incomes

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The Chipewyans have the identical opportunities.

Cree have been working people for hundreds of years and came from Quebec to the West to work in the late 1700s Grouping all tribes and painting with the same brush is problematic in understanding Canadian F'N history. They also embraced the Catholic religion.. Call them sell outs if you will but they were the first apples.

Interesting. I haven't group all the nations, and I haven't called anybody anything. You on the other hand, have called the Chipewyans "less smart and driven" than the Cree.

Are you familiar with the concept of "projection?"

 

[mentalfloss]

Interesting. I haven't group all the nations, and I haven't called anybody anything. You on the other hand, have called the Chipewyans "less smart and driven" than the Cree.

Are you familiar with the concept of "projection?"

As much as the cap'n is familiar with red herrings.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Yes, I agree.

How about Neil's LincVolt?... An impressive auto indeed.

At around $1 Million it is surely something that is a must-have for any budget.

I wonder if Neils uses environmentally friendly battery acid in his '59.... You know, that kind of eco-acid and those 'green' heavy metals that are sooooo beneficial to the environment when the spent battery gets tossed?

Ohhh, and the biofuel... Any thoughts on how may impoverished families might be impacted by the higher cost of food?

Yep, a win-win for everyone, especially for those on fixed and low incomes

You're right. Any alternative that costs a penny more or isn't 100% environmentally friendly is actually worse than burning fossil fuels.

As much as the cap'n is familiar with red herrings.

Great Scot! Turtles!

 

[captain morgan]

As much as the cap'n is familiar with red herrings.

Yes, having dealt with your selective offerings, I am highly familiar with the practice

You're right. Any alternative that costs a penny more or isn't 100% environmentally friendly is actually worse than burning fossil fuels.

Take a look at the engineering of said technology and I believe you will find that the inputs to deliver said tech (in finalized, retail form) demands a higher use of fossil fuels (in a variety of forms).

In addition to this, the cost of generating the biomass to be the foundation of the bio fuel is hydrocarbon intensive all the way from fertilizers, equipment to seed, maintain, harvest and transport to the processing location.

Add to this that those resources and time invested by the agrisector to generate biofuel is at the direct expense of food production.

You do the supply/demand analysis, but I believe that you know what the result will be.

The burning irony is that Ole Neil is doing this at the behest of 'the common man' when he is in fact doing far more harm than good both environmentally and economically

Great Scot! Turtles!

I love those tasty little chocolate confections

 

[petros]

Interesting. I haven't group all the nations, and I haven't called anybody anything. You on the other hand, have called the Chipewyans "less smart and driven" than the Cree.

Are you familiar with the concept of "projection?"

I never called them less smart or driven. I questioned their intelligence and drive. As lawyer you should have picked that up right away.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Yes, having dealt with your selective offerings, I am highly familiar with the practice



Take a look at the engineering of said technology and I believe you will find that the inputs to deliver said tech (in finalized, retail form) demands a higher use of fossil fuels (in a variety of forms).

In addition to this, the cost of generating the biomass to be the foundation of the bio fuel is hydrocarbon intensive all the way from fertilizers, equipment to seed, maintain, harvest and transport to the processing location.

Add to this that those resources and time invested by the agrisector to generate biofuel is at the direct expense of food production.

You do the supply/demand analysis, but I believe that you know what the result will be.

The burning irony is that Ole Neil is doing this at the behest of 'the common man' when he is in fact doing far more harm than good both environmentally and economically

As you know, we basically agree on energy, fossil fuels, alternatives, &c. And on the fact that, outside his narrow specialty of writing pretty good folk rock songs (with just a wee hint of moral superiority), Neil Young has no opinion worth listening to.

I love those tasty little chocolate confections

Peanuts, caramel, and chocolate? What's not to love?

 

[Simple Man]

Also malarkey.

Oil sands are the al Qaeda media myth for Greens.

What are they distracting you from?

Nah...malarkey is the level of foreign ownership in the tarsands, paltry royalties paid by the petrochems, subsidization of the industry via our tax dollars, taxpayer funded advertising for the petrochemical industry, industry regulation with no teeth.....ETC.

We could learn a thing or two from the Norway model. Their system is not perfect but at least they do not let the corporate interests walk all over them whereas we willingly enter into agreements that tie our hands for 30 plus years under penalty of litigation for breaking said agreements.

We here in Canada gladly hold the door for corporate interests to loot the store and encourage them to come back if they need more.

There needs to be a balance and the balance needs to include the necessity of driving a harder bargain without the fear that we will drive away the "expertise" the the petro industry represents.

Yes we get jobs, yes we get some royalties...but at what expense ultimately? Are the externalities being considered adequately? Who is paying the full cost of the reclamation you refer to? Does it seem likely to you that with all the tech that is required in the oilsands process, all the resources required in extracting the resources that there is wiggle room that will allow for adequately "returning" the landscape?

Activist - AK tiv ist - a person who knows nothing except that he or she is RIGHT.

Sometimes,often actually, they are....the Civil Rights Movement comes to mind, for starters.

 

[captain morgan]

As you know, we basically agree on energy, fossil fuels, alternatives, &c. And on the fact that, outside his narrow specialty of writing pretty good folk rock songs (with just a wee hint of moral superiority), Neil Young has no opinion worth listening to.

I believe that we are on he same page in principle. The beef I have with the Neill Youngs and Robert Redfords of the world has more to do with the dissemination of flawed information and the dramatic exaggerations that appear to be the foundation of the hype.

Their opinions are equally as valid as anyone else's but the grade 5 antics that were once just laughable are now more deserving of rebuttal and pity

Peanuts, caramel, and chocolate? What's not to love?

Damn things are like popcorn... Can't have just 1or 2

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I believe that we are on he same page in principle. The beef I have with the Neill Youngs and Robert Redfords of the world has more to do with the dissemination of flawed information and the dramatic exaggerations that appear to be the foundation of the hype.

Their opinions are equally as valid as anyone else's but the grade 5 antics that were once just laughable are now more deserving of rebuttal and pity




Damn things are like popcorn... Can't have just 1or 2

They use their fame and money to give their crap louder voice. Just like politicians everywhere.

 

[captain morgan]

Nah...malarkey is the level of foreign ownership in the tarsands, paltry royalties paid by the petrochems, subsidization of the industry via our tax dollars, taxpayer funded advertising for the petrochemical industry, industry regulation with no teeth.....ETC.

I always love the chest-thumping about taxpayer subsidies to O&G... Perhaps you believe that there are truck loads of brown paper bags stuffed with cash being handed-out at the H.Q.s of the oil companies? (memo: that's the Libs bribing Que businesses - no oil company HQs in Que).

By the way, before you do any permanent damage with the chest thumping, look at the corp taxes paid by these companies - and then maybe the actual dollars paid in royalties... Might even look into the cost of licensing, fees and land sales as well.

Yep, there is a reason that the oilsands are being touted as Canada's economic engine and in a few years time when the Sask sands are online, that number will go through the roof.

 

[petros]

Nah...malarkey is the level of foreign ownership in the tarsands, paltry royalties paid by the petrochems, subsidization of the industry via our tax dollars, taxpayer funded advertising for the petrochemical industry, industry regulation with no teeth.....ETC.

We could learn a thing or two from the Norway model. Their system is not perfect but at least they do not let the corporate interests walk all over them whereas we willingly enter into agreements that tie our hands for 30 plus years under penalty of litigation for breaking said agreements.

We here in Canada gladly hold the door for corporate interests to loot the store and encourage them to come back if they need more.

There needs to be a balance and the balance needs to include the necessity of driving a harder bargain without the fear that we will drive away the "expertise" the the petro industry represents.

Yes we get jobs, yes we get some royalties...but at what expense ultimately? Are the externalities being considered adequately? Who is paying the full cost of the reclamation you refer to? Does it seem likely to you that with all the tech that is required in the oilsands process, all the resources required in extracting the resources that there is wiggle room that will allow for adequately "returning" the landscape?


Sometimes,often actually, they are....the Civil Rights Movement comes to mind, for starters.

550,000 Canadians work in energy. last year $64Billion in Capital Costs were paid out by oil, $17Billion in Fed royalty revenues, AB made $4.7 Billion in provincial royalties and the Fed and provinces tax the earnings and spending of those 550,000 people. Oil will be creating 935,000 direct jobs in the next 20 years. Those 1,850,000 direct jobs will create just as many in other jobs.

Can you name any place anywhere in the else in the world that will pay people to get the skills they need to get into trades and are handed a high paid job on a silver platter upon course completion?

All anyone needs to do is show up and they are set for life.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I always love the chest-thumping about taxpayer subsidies to O&G... Perhaps you believe that there are truck loads of brown paper bags stuffed with cash being handed-out at the H.Q.s of the oil companies? (memo: that's the Libs bribing Que businesses - no oil company HQs in Que).

Of course not. They use electronic funds transfers to offshore accounts.

Bags of cash. How very gauche.

 

[captain morgan]

They use their fame and money to give their crap louder voice. Just like politicians everywhere.

They most certainly do, and that too is something that I have no issues with.

As an opinion, I will suggest that while these folks have that strength of voice in society, there is also a responsibility that comes with it... I can recall that Al Gore was making highly charged statements that he passed-off as fact (around the time of Inconvenient Truth). It became so questionable that a movement in the UK challenged these 'facts' in court (had to do with pressures from the education system)... The 'facts' were reviewed and later determined to be non-factual.

Upon being presented with this circumstance, Gore declared that he would happily tell lies all the live long day as long as it was to preserve Nature.

... The above example is what I find reprehensible

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

They most certainly do, and that too is something that I have no issues with.

As an opinion, I will suggest that while these folks have that strength of voice in society, there is also a responsibility that comes with it... I can recall that Al Gore was making highly charged statements that he passed-off as fact (around the time of Inconvenient Truth). It became so questionable that a movement in the UK challenged these 'facts' in court (had to do with pressures from the education system)... The 'facts' were reviewed and later determined to be non-factual.

Upon being presented with this circumstance, Gore declared that he would happily tell lies all the live long day as long as it was to preserve Nature.

... The above example is what I find reprehensible

That's why rationalists always lose. They refuse to tell you what to think.

Most folk would literally rather die than think for themselves.

 

[CDNBear]

Poor neocons. They never get cool rock stars supporting their cause. I wonder why that is...

Because the opinion of drug addled rock stars, well past their 'best before date', aren't a reliable source of critical thought.

Their opinions only really matter to like minded hacks.

 

[captain morgan]

Of course not. They use electronic funds transfers to offshore accounts.

Bags of cash. How very gauche.

True, however, cash leaves no paper trail (ironic in that it is paper), much to the taxman's chagrin.

BTW - Thanks again for the chuckles last Friday RE: 'Lord Arserogerer and The Duke of Hamandbeans'

I still chuckle over it

 

[Simple Man]

550,000 Canadians work in energy. last year $64Billion in Capital Costs were paid out by oil, $17Billion in Fed royalty revenues, AB made $4.7 Billion in provincial royalties and the Fed and provinces tax the earnings and spending of those 550,000 people. Oil will be creating 935,000 direct jobs in the next 20 years. Those 1,850,000 direct jobs will create just as many in other jobs.

Can you name any place anywhere in the else in the world that will pay people to get the skills they need to get into trades and are handed a high paid job on a silver platter upon course completion?

All anyone needs to do is show up and they are set for life.

Imagine if the resource were nationalized?

You seem up on your numbers. Any idea what the collective take was before all the trickle down you refer to? It would be interesting to see the gross revenue collectively of the corporate interests.

No opinion on Norway?

Yep, there is a reason that the oilsands are being touted as Canada's economic engine and in a few years time when the Sask sands are online, that number will go through the roof.

So how can we keep the lion's share of that number at home rather than watch it walk away?

Can you name any place anywhere in the else in the world that will pay people to get the skills they need to get into trades and are handed a high paid job on a silver platter upon course completion?

All anyone needs to do is show up and they are set for life.

I guess we probably don't want to get into the litany of overconsumption, rampant consumer waste, planned obsolescence and just general short sighted behaviour that comes of being handed something on a silver platter then; because you just know that's only gonna lead into the ol' "money is the root of all evil" thing.

 

[CDNBear]

Imagine if the resource were nationalized?

Like all resources should be.

But do you really want our govts to handle such a huge responsibility?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

True, however, cash leaves no paper trail (ironic in that it is paper), much to the taxman's chagrin.

BTW - Thanks again for the chuckles last Friday RE: 'Lord Arserogerer and The Duke of Hamandbeans'

I still chuckle over it

No, no! It was "the Duke of Beansandham." Part of the joke was the play on the fact that many English placenames end with "ham."

Dammit, cap, I work hard on my quips. Get it right or no turtles for you!