NDP Have BIG plans in BC again!!!

[LadyC]

She has 5 kids that help her if she needs it.

But thats not the point.

No, it wasn't the point. The point was that people shouldn't expect the government to take care of them. If a senior needs help, they should look to their family first. If the family is unable to help, then the government should step in.

If the family is unwilling to help... shame on them.

 

[LadyC]

If the universities cannot provide education at a static tuition level then maybe we should ask where all the money is going rather then increasing tuition rates. Do we really need to be paying the president of UBC $700,000 for two-years pay after she's quit? Rather than lacing the pockets of their administrations the universities should use students tuition funds more wisely, and then maybe there will not be such a pressing need to jack up tuition fees. Plus think of the kickback from allowing more people to educate themselves. With more educated people seeking work it will benefit the entire province, I can see no advantage to closing the doors on our working force blocking them from the halls of learning.

Why should tuition rates remain static? Everyone, from the profs and TAs to the janitors and cafeteria workers will want a raise every so often. Where do you suppose that money comes from?

As for the benefits of an education... not everyone needs or wants a university degree. There are other options available, too. College, trades, business schools...

Bottom line, though. The students who will benefit from their education should be the ones to foot the bill.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: NDP Have BIG plans in

The province also benfits from that education.

 

[LadyC]

Many people benefit from that education. First and foremost the one holding the diploma.

The fact is... during the tuition freeze, class sizes increased, and research declined due to lack of funds. Many profs, etc. left for greener pastures (not just wages, but also research, which is what makes some universities more prestigious than others)

The general consensus here seems to be that the government should pay the difference in tuition. Where does the government get the money?

From our taxes. You feel like paying more so little Billy down the street can go to college?

 

[mrmom2]

Better college than jail or welfare Little Billy has no education thats were he'll end up :roll:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: NDP Have BIG plans in

Ah, the price of everything and the value of nothing. I've seen that theory before. Been there, got some scars and a bit of blood on my shirt, didn't like it much.

I don't mind gnawing on a figurative skull or two, but I draw the line at cracking femurs open to suck out the raw marrow.

 

[LadyC]

Better college than jail or welfare Little Billy has no education thats were he'll end up :roll:

Who said NO education?

Somehow I don't think those are the only three choices.

 

[OakServe]

RE: NDP Have BIG plans in

Where will the money for raises come from? Honestly did you even read what I said about paying off the university brass when they quit? All i'm saying is that if we're gonna keep hiking tuition fees then the universities better spend their money more wisely and provide accountability. What's the benefit in students tuition funding a bunch of retiring brass when it should be going to their education.

 

[mrmom2]

If he's in public school he's not getting a very good one

 

[LadyC]

Don't even get me started on public vs private schools. :roll:

OakServe...
You're talking apples instead of oranges. Even if the brass didn't receive their payouts, tuitions can't remain frozen for long. The freeze was an election ploy to buy votes. It helped the students at the time, but left a poor legacy of overcrowded classes and reduced research.

 

[OakServe]

RE: NDP Have BIG plans in

I just realized that you want universties to be %100 private. If the classes are too big and vital research is suffering because of stretched funds... then first let's see the money go where it should i.e. no more big brass payouts, secondly let's boost government funding for universities. Post-secondary is easily as important as elementary and highschool education. I would venture that post-secondary education should be a public arm, fully funded by tax-money for citizens that apply their education to jobs within Canada after graduation. The payback would be enormous. Imagine how many more highly skilled highly educated workers we would retain? Intelligent citizens contributing to our society just the way it should be in democracy.

Or we could just let tuition sky-rocket even more, and those who pay the outrageous tuition will run off the the states to make US dollars to pay off their enormous debt, leaving no benefit for us except to the employees of the University. And even that benefit would deteriorate as the years go by, as our tuition continues to increase and the payouts for the brass get even more gross, fewer people will bother to pay our outrageous fees and will simply skip the middle-man, getting their education elsewhere and working elsewhere. Are these the benefits you seek?

 

[LadyC]

I just realized that you want universties to be %100 private.

How do you figure that?

I would venture that post-secondary education should be a public arm, fully funded by tax-money for citizens that apply their education to jobs within Canada after graduation. The payback would be enormous. Imagine how many more highly skilled highly educated workers we would retain?

About the same as we retain now.
How do you plan to enforce that? If a graduate decides to accept a lucrative position in the States, how will you make him stay here for his required however many years of service in Canada?

 

[OakServe]

RE: NDP Have BIG plans in

If he locates his career outside of Canada then he will be sent a bill for his education.

So you do not support %100 privatization of post secondary education?

 

[no1important]

Re: RE: NDP Have BIG plans in BC again!!!

She has 5 kids that help her if she needs it.

But thats not the point.

No, it wasn't the point. The point was that people shouldn't expect the government to take care of them. If a senior needs help, they should look to their family first. If the family is unable to help, then the government should step in.

If the family is unwilling to help... shame on them.

They pay their taxes too and have for a lot of years. So it should be covered, we have high taxes here to cover it.

You seem to think everyone should pay for everything from prescriptions to post Secondary education? Does that include getting rid of medical and pay each time we go to Doctor or Hospital, like they do in America?

Since none of the social needs should be funded. I just hope you don't have to rely on pharmacare and other social programs when you retire or if you get incapacitated.

But you would do the right thing and not accept any help, right? After all, according to you, it is so wrong for these things to be funded.

 

[insignificant]

Most people who are frustrated with liberals have been hit close to home... maybe they are a teacher who under the liberals term in office have had to deal with 30+ kids in each highschool classroom, with reduced wages and having to see the kids having less councillors, less librarians

Wow - LADYC sorry I wasnt around to help you out last night with the REV.

Anyways, where do I begin - Teachers have reduced wages? Tell me where you found that? As for class sizes, do some research - Are you saying that ALL CLASSES HAVE 30+ KIDS? You are trying to quote info from BCTF commercials obviously! Why don't you research the REAL FACTS, and you will see that the BCTF spins information.

BC Liberals announced a $150mil increase for the education budget in 2005. Liberals allow PARENTS TO VOLUNTEER in schools, helping their communities. They made education an essential service. Class sizes ARE limited from K-3, as well as limits for district-wide class size averages at every grade level. This is a balanced approach, which doesnt leave students without a classroom.

AS for tuition which seems to be the big argument last night...lets look at the FACTS:

BC HAD to increase its tuition. Improvmets need to be done to schools, profs want raises, and in order to do this, the money has to come from somewhere. The MAJORITY of BCers do not want to pay MORE TAX to subsidize post-secondary further, so again, those who disagree should go read about economics! The funny thing too is that you all seem to hate lawyers, accountants, etc., yet you want to subsidize their education. I became a pilot and the gov't didnt pay for MY education!

FACTS:
Tuition 2004 (from stats Canada)
BC's average tuition: $4140
Canada's: $4025
Nova Scotia: $5557
Ontario: $4923
Saskatchewan: $4644
Alberta: $4487

So if you look accross the country, you can see WE aren't the most expensive, but yes, we did see the biggest increase in tuition last year - but that was because of the 6 year FREEZE on tuition - which downloaded extra costs onto the tax payer. I know that my wife's Full-Time tuition was less than $4140 last year. We thought that the tuition was more than reasonable.

So, if you you look at the facts, you see that the NDP rhetoric is mostly all crap.

 

[insignificant]

But you would do the right thing and not accept any help, right? After all, according to you, it is so wrong for these things to be funded.

No it isnt wrong, but it should be delivered to us in the MOST EFFICIENT WAY POSSIBLE! Each Tax Dollar should be spent in a responsible way, similar to that of running a business.

 

[insignificant]

I laugh at Carole James' latest TV ad:

Reasons why our economy is doing well:
1. low interest
2. high commodity prices!

hahahahaha, talk to small business owners and see if THEY have benefited from the policy changes the Liberals have implemented!

 

[LadyC]

Re: RE: NDP Have BIG plans in

If he locates his career outside of Canada then he will be sent a bill for his education.

Which I'm sure he'll pay promptly.

So you do not support %100 privatization of post secondary education?

Which is it, oak? You're the one claiming to know what I do and don't support.

 

[LadyC]

Re: RE: NDP Have BIG plans in BC again!!!

She has 5 kids that help her if she needs it.

But thats not the point.

No, it wasn't the point. The point was that people shouldn't expect the government to take care of them. If a senior needs help, they should look to their family first. If the family is unable to help, then the government should step in.

If the family is unwilling to help... shame on them.

They pay their taxes too and have for a lot of years. So it should be covered, we have high taxes here to cover it.

You seem to think everyone should pay for everything from prescriptions to post Secondary education? Does that include getting rid of medical and pay each time we go to Doctor or Hospital, like they do in America?

Since none of the social needs should be funded. I just hope you don't have to rely on pharmacare and other social programs when you retire or if you get incapacitated.

But you would do the right thing and not accept any help, right? After all, according to you, it is so wrong for these things to be funded.

Apparently I don't need to post my opinions... you and OakServe seem to be doing a good job at taking one statement and drawing your own conclusions.

I've never said social needs shouldn't be funded... the key word being NEED. We have a safety net, which should be used when and if we need it. It's not something that we should expect.

As for paying to see the doctor... I already do. I pay over $1700/year, whether I go or not. I also pay for each and every dental visit, as I don't have those benefits from work.

After all, according to you, it is so wrong for these things to be funded

I've never said this.

 

[no1important]

Re: RE: NDP Have BIG plans in BC again!!!

I laugh at Carole James' latest TV ad:

Reasons why our economy is doing well:
1. low interest
2. high commodity prices!

hahahahaha, talk to small business owners and see if THEY have benefited from the policy changes the Liberals have implemented!

Well that is the truth.
* Oil is way up
*Copper is way up
*Gold is way up.
*Natural gas has gone up
*Coal Has gone up steeply. So much Western Canadian coal is opening a mine in the North East. Near Tumbler Ridge.

Here

None of those have anything to do with Campbell. Its the World economy.

I've never said this.

Well that is what your posts imply.