NDP Have BIG plans in BC again!!!

[crit13]

Campbell like all right wing governments around the world only care about about making money for their business buddies by exploiting workers and environment. Gordon Campbell. Ralph Klein, Stephen Harper and George Bush are all the same.

That's quite a big brush your using to paint these people. I would argue the opposite. People like Klein are long term thinkers that think of future generations, not just about today such as NDPers do. How much better off would our lives be if we didn't have massive debts both nationaly, and provincially (minus Alberta) How many Billions of dollars is being spent on interest expenses that would otherwise be spent on social services? We can't continue to spend and put things on credit. Sooner or later, we have to pay this borrowed money back. It's no different from you or me spending money we don't have and living on our credit cards. Sooner or later we either have to pay the piper or declare bankruptcy.

Money money money. Rape the land for all its worth, use the cheapest labour possible and to hell with the average person, seniors, students and the environment. Stole BC rail from the people, stole BC ferries from the people and the list goes on. Ripped up legal signed and agreed contracts, just to screw people after he said he would not tear up any contracts.

The exact opposite is happening in Toronto and people are just as pissed off. Union friendly Miller is giving away the farm to his union buddies every time a CBA comes up. Transit workers in Toronto have starting wages of $60,000 with full benefits and good pension plan. They actually earn more than our cops as a starting wage. These people that are making $60,000 are the same people that sit behind plexiglass and watch people plop coins in a container. How much work is there in driving a subway car? Start.....stop......start.....stop.

The point I'm trying to make is not that these people should have their wages cut, but after a while, unions make wages get out of hand and in the end, it's the public that suffers in higher costs.

The best line I heard this week is that Toronto doesn't even have the money to fulfill these contracts. Miller is expecting more funding from the federal government to pay for these wage hikes. I would love to see what will happen if Martin doesn't pay up. Oh oh, NO paycheques at all.

 

[peapod]

Crit this thread is for BC politcs. We can read your opinion about martin and the liberals in alot of other threads. Here we would like to discuss "our" provincial election coming soon. This is not a federal thread its a provincial one. We already know how you feel about the liberals.

 

[MMMike]

Who are you or Campbell to say people working in hospitals and care homes make to much and need their wages and benefits cut in half? How would you like it if tomorrow Campbell decided you make too much and cut your pay from $20 - $9 or $10 an hour with no benefits?

Uh, these people get paid with taxpayer money. Obviously taxpayers can decide to increase or decrease their wages. If they don't think it is enough, they are free to get a better job that will pay more. If the wage set by government is too low for the nature of the work and the qualifications necessary, they won't find anyone to do the work, so they'll have to increase wages to attract people. It's not rocket science!

 

[peapod]

Neither you or critc live in this province mike, plenty of political threads at this board sayig the same thing you and critc. This is a provincial thread called BC, it would be nice to have one thread around here that does not have the usual spin but a real discussion.

 

[MMMike]

Neither you or critc live in this province mike, plenty of political threads at this board sayig the same thing you and critc. This is a provincial thread called BC, it would be nice to have one thread around here that does not have the usual spin but a real discussion.

Oh yeah... well, I'm going to start my own thread on Ontario politics and you're not invited! Come on, Crit13, let's get outta here! :lol:

 

[peapod]

:lol: :lol: :lol: thanks! a gentlemen...mmmmm and a conservative one at that :lol: :lol:

 

[insignificant]

Am I the only LIBERAL in this forum??? I feel a little outnumbered here!

Where do I begin?

Wages: As I said - get creative! Quit EXPECTING that the gov't is going to set your wage at something very HIGH! Guess what, you piss business off - they MOVE AWAY! Like it or Not!

Remember the island highway project? The NDP spent MILLIONS in extra tax payers money in order to keep their union buddies happy!

I find it funny that left wingers seem to think we can go along without business in this province. Business drives our economy, Business keeps Hospitals OPEN (I know someone's going to reply that the all evil "CAMPBELL" has closed all the hospitals), Business Pays Teacher's Wages, Business Paves Roads....It goes on and on!

If you chase business out of the province (as the NDP has already done), we will end up running an annual deficit as the NDP did. If you do that YEAR after YEAR, you will eventually BANKRUPT the province! Yes, it is possible to BANKRUPT a province! And if you think that our health care and education is in bad shape NOW, how do you think it would look if we were BANKRUPT?!?!

Alberta should be a model of how all governments should be run - in a RESPONSIBLE manner.

So seriously have a look at how you view Business!

As for Gordon Campbell being a criminal - GIVE ME A BREAK! That's RIDICULOUS - Give your head a shake!

 

[peapod]

Perhaps gordon campbell is not a criminal in the legal sense, although drunk driving is a criminal offense last time I looked. However many view him as a criminal in the humane way. So far it seems you are the only liberal in this thread. Now if gordon campbell surplus can be explained in the way I mentioned previously, than how he got that surplus is fudged. So where are the revenues from the cuts??
Did the province need cuts, they certainly did, but did they need them all at once, or should it have been something gradual. Only the vote will determine that.
One other thing I think worth mentioning, BC has one other unusual thing, perhaps other provinces have it, I am not sure. There are alot of wealthy people in this province that have a social conscious unusual but there certainly is. My own parents could be considered financally independent, yet my mother will canvas for the NDP on what she calls her humanity. Your mistaken sig if you think this group in bc does not exist.

Campbell biggest threat is from the seniors, they are a huge group, and he has pushed them over the line. Anyway I have downloaded a few platforms to read.

 

[mrmom2]

The one question you got to ask is what are the Libs going to try and sell next 8O Selling off public assets does not work sig go look at the mess in New Zealand they sold everything and now their paying a huge price to try and get it back Politicians selling off public assets only benifits politicians.Another thing that bothers me is Accenture doing HYdros billing do you know who they are?Their the fine people who gave us Enron, California will not do business with them by law so what is Campbell doing giving them part of Hydro?We are now F..ked because of NAFTA we will never be able to get rid of them unless its for huge money .What do you say about that Liberal spin doctor :wink:

 

[peapod]

Well mom I read a interesting article over at tyee, on this very issue of hydro. I will post the article below. You should check the site out, its very informative and its independent, so the watered down fluff is not really present. Here is the address...

www.thetyee.ca

 

[insignificant]

The Liberals are privatizing crow corporation for one reason: TO SAVE MONEY! BC Rail was a money loser for years. So was BC Ferries! Why do we need to keep these assets as crown corps? Because Union Leaders say we need them?

Look at YVR - the airport which was once run by the feds is now run as a private corporation, and this airport is one of the best run airports in the world. I think that the same could happen at BC Ferries. They even have White Spot on the boats now - much better than that slop they used to serve. It seems that the only way you can make progress is to go this way (run it like a business).

I think we need to privatize BC Liquor NEXT!

As for wealthy people in the province voting NDP - I know some, not many however!

Governments need to look at THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO SPEND OUR TAX DOLLARS!

A good analogy would be this:
You want to buy your son a new bike. ABC Bike shop has a BMX for $499.
You go to WALMART and the same bike is $299. Do you spend the extra $200 just so you dont support WALMART? I for one would take the savings (as much as I dont like WALMART). Government needs to do the same.

 

[peapod]

So if we really want to start dealing in facts, lets go to the following website where we can look at the actual records of these parties.

http://www.bcfacts.org/

 

[insignificant]

Take a look at the corporate donations to the Liberal Party! Wow! Business likes what they are doing I suppose.

 

[peapod]

okay sig, I know you are from the mainland, so you get excited easily, whoo hoo the drivers over there
Lets play this a different way, here is something I do when I have to get serious and really think. I mean really, we could start throwing insults, I am pretty good at that and turn this thread into all the other political threads around here, or we seriously look at the big picture. So this is what I do when I know I really have to think about something before I decide. I pretend I am in the movie 12 angry men, and I have to decide the fate of someone based on the evidence in front of me. Whoa!! than it gets really heavy 8O I have to start thinking crytically, when actually I would rather skip down the street and smell the flowers. Blah! there are just some things in life where it is required.

 

[insignificant]

If the NDP is so anti corporation, why did the NDP'S former GOLDEN BOY Glen Clark go to work for the EVIL-PATTISON Group???

 

[peapod]

I guess I got my answer. Mom check out the bcfacts.org website for actual legitmate facts on all parties.

 

[mrmom2]

I still didn't get an answer on accenture the fine people that brought the world ENRON that were still paying for through legal fees in the Calafornia lawsuit against Hydro and there unpaid bill .So why the F..k have we signed a deal with these thieves?Ever notice are media says absoultly nothing about this not a word

 

[no1important]

He closed St. Mary's hospital when it picked up the slack and relieved wait lists from other hospitals, I just heard now on radio Mt. St. Josephs is closing, he reduced ER hours at Delta hospital and many others.

from NDP web site:

"By 2007, under Gordon Campbell's health care plan the province will see a net reduction of 565 long-term care beds."

and

1. increased medical (MSP) premiums by 50%
2. doubled college and university tuition fees
3. broke their promise not to privatize BC Rail
4. increased Pharmacare fees
5. increased driver's license, hunting and fishing fees
6. attempted to privatize Coquihalla Highway, costing taxpayers $6 million
7. started privatizing ICBC, so we'll pay more for insurance
8. started privatizing BC Hydro, and raised electricity rates
9. raised gas taxes 3.5 cents/litre
10. raised property taxes
11. raised sales tax to 7.5% for three years
12. higher ferry fares
13. higher child care costs for thousands of BC families
14. increased physiotherapy and eye care fees
15. costly new user fees for parks
16. cut minimum wage to $6 for new workers
17. closed hospital emergency rooms and some entire hospitals
18. cut more than $50 million from child care
19. increased health waiting lists by 31%
20. sent BC Ferries shipbuilding jobs to Germany
21. cut special needs education
22. 2,500 fewer teachers
23 laid off 300 nurses
24.cut training and apprenticeship programs
25.increased school class sizes in every grade
26.created dirty hospitals by privatizing laundry, food and hospital cleaning services
27. broke promise to build 5,000 new long-term beds
28. cut home care for seniors - and even split up some couples
29. eliminated services for women in crisis
30. cut support to families in need
31. made disability benefits harder to get
32. 113 schools closed
33. doubled gambling, including thousands of new slot machines
34. cut environmental enforcement and protection for our air, water and forests
35. fired 8,000 hospital workers
36. neglected resource communities and increased raw log exports

All above are 100% true and verifiable. So why would anyone with a shred of human compassion vote for the Liberals is beyond me.

People bitch about NDP, but at least the NDP show compassion for human dignity unlike the Liberals.

OT, FYI: I just did something I never thought I would do again (join a political party), but I am proud to say as of 30 minutes ago I became an official member of the BC NDP Party and even signed up to help out in upcoming election. It was a wise decision on my part.

 

[insignificant]

Two can play at this game

The Real Story on Seniors' Beds

NDP claims

(from NDP News release , 15 April 2005)

The facts

"By 2007, under Gordon Campbell's health care plan the province will see a net reduction of 565 long-term care beds."

WRONG.

FACT: Since 2001 we have built more than 4,000 new, replacement or upgraded residential care and assisted living units for seniors.

FACT: By the end of 2006, there will be a net increase of more than 2,700 beds for seniors.

FACT: By 2008, we will have achieved our goal of adding 5,000 new beds for seniors across the spectrum of assisted living, residential care and independent housing.

James said that a number of the health authorities are planning for significant, continual reductions to long-term care beds, not the increase as promised by Campbell.
MISLEADING. We have always said we will build an additional 5,000 intermediate AND long-term care beds (New Era, 2001). The NDP is cherry-picking data from only one category.

FACT: Under the NDP, wait times for a residential care bed was as much as 1 year. Today average wait times for residential care are a fraction of that: ranging from 30 to 90 days. Our approach is working.

"Our province needs a dramatic and immediate increase in the number of long-term care beds that provide complex care around the clock. This is the only way we can relieve the stress on our hospital's acute care wards and emergency room backlogs."

MISLEADING. To relieve pressure on our hospitals, we need to invest in new hospitals (NDP never did; we are – eg., new Abbotsford Hospital), technology, preventative health care, and skilled health professionals (who the NDP drove out of the province).

The NDP platform says NOTHING about building new hospitals, investing in technology, supporting preventative health care, or training and recruiting skilled health professionals.

FACT: Under the NDP, wait times for a residential care bed was as much as 1 year. Today average wait times for residential care are a fraction of that: ranging from 30 to 90 days. Our approach is working.

"To date the BC Liberals have not made a single announcement to build long-term care beds. Instead they are building assisted-living units, offering rent supplements and home support."


WRONG. Examples of residential care bed projects:

· 50 new complex care beds and 30 units for seniors with dementia at Gibsons (27 Sept 2004)

· 155 new residential care beds at South Surrey Seniors Village (1 April 2005)

· 30 new residential care beds at Hilton Villa in Surrey (14 April 2005)

· 94 new residential care beds at Laurel Place in Surrey (14 April 2005)

· 60 residential care and 40 dementia beds at Village by the Station in Penticton.

· 46 specialized psycho-geriatric beds at Sandringham care centre in Victoria. (8 Mar 2005)

· Redeveloping Simpson Private Hospital (Langley) including 40 additional beds (announced April 6, 2005)

· And more….

"But assisted living units do nothing to help seniors waiting in hospital beds because they require long-term complex care."

WRONG. Having more options like assisted-living units helps free up residential care beds for those seniors who need them.

Proof that this approach is working is in the reduction in wait times for residential care beds. Under the NDP, wait times were as much as 1 year – today, average wait time is 30-90 days.

We believe that seniors want a range of options from assisted-living to home care to residential care. Seniors want a system that fits their needs. The NDP wants a one-size-fits-all program where seniors have no options but institutionalized residential care beds.

"I have committed to opening 1,000 long-term care beds within the first year."

DOESN'T ADD UP. The NDP platform has no plausible explanation for how they will do this other than the fact that we already have 1,700 units being built in 46 projects right now.

The NDP is committed to opening an additional 5000 long-term care beds by 2009.

EMPTY PROMISE. The NDP Platform offers NO explanation for funding these beds. Their platform is a ONE-YEAR plan with no financial details beyond that first year.

NDP Record: Between 1993 and 1999, the NDP actually reduced the number of care beds by 18% (source: Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives).

NDP Record: A 2002 inventory of residential care found that HALF of the existing residential care beds were either unsalvageable and required outright replacement or needed upgrading in order to be used for complex care.

Many beds failed to meet modern building and fire codes; resident rooms were overcrowded; hallways and washrooms were too narrow to accommodate wheelchairs. Since 2001, we have been renovating, replacing or upgrading thousands of these units.

This was taken from the BC Liberal Website at:
http://www.bcliberals.com/ndp_-_the_real_story/

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: NDP Have BIG plans in BC again!!!

Take a look at the corporate donations to the Liberal Party! Wow! Business likes what they are doing I suppose.

I guess Québec is the only province where Corprate donations are illegal....