NDP Have BIG plans in BC again!!!

Are you going to vote for the NDP


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insignificant

Electoral Member
Apr 13, 2005
185
0
16
Vancouver, BC
Do you work or volunteer for the Liberal party?

No....I just have a vivid memory of the performance of the previous NDP gov't.

They [James] claim that Campbell has nothing to do with the booming economy...she's wrong. Campbell has allowed business to operate through reduced red tape. Remember the 90's? Remember how Ontario, Alberta, and every other province out performed BC? Remember how they ruined our AAA credit rating? TWICE? Remember how 50,000 people LEFT the province? What does that tell you?

The only good thing that came out of the remains of that mess was the fact that we became a HAVE-NOT Province, which bumped up transfer money from the feds.

Many BC voters have SHORT-TERM MEMORY! I for one do not forgive the NDP for their reckless performance, and that is why I am in this forum! :D :roll:
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
By Andrew MacLeod

With the May 17 election fast approaching, Steve Palmer and other members of the Disabled Rights Alliance have been handing out information outside Liberal MLA Jeff Bray’s Victoria-Beacon Hill campaign office on Fort Street pretty much daily.

In the last few weeks the Liberals have made much of what they’ve done for people living on provincial disability benefits — they raised the earnings exemption to $500 and upped the benefit rate by $70 a month.

Palmer, who voted for the Liberals last time around but won’t be this time, says, “They needed to add one more ‘0’ to make me happy.” The raise is small, he says, compared to what the Liberals have “stolen.” For example, he says, the government requires people on disability benefits to claim any other possible sources of income, such as money from the Canada Pension Plan, which can be claimed when people turn 60. The province then claws that back from people’s disability cheques.

Palmer says that’s unfair, especially since anyone claiming CPP early will receive a smaller amount of money than they would if they had waited until they were 65 years old. The province has the same requirement of “employables” on welfare, by the way, which one recipient says condemns them to continued poverty in old age.

“Retirement plans and calculations are complicated,” says a spokesperson for the human resources ministry, Richard Chambers, “but ministry studies would show people who leave incomve assistance for CPP at age 60 are no worse off at age 65 than if they’d stayed on income assistance for those five years.” If the amount a person gets from CPP isn’t as much as they’d get from welfare, he says, the province provides a “top up” to bring them to the income level they would have had from the ministry. Chambers says the NDP government put the policy into force in 1999. “It’s consistent with our policy of asking people to be self-reliant,” he says.

Palmer says the government requires his signature before it can take his CPP benefits, something he is yet to provide, but the ministry is adamant about receiving. “They’ve threatened to cut me off from the necessities of life.” He adds, “If we are able to challenge this, every disabled person will have a sustainable income
 

insignificant

Electoral Member
Apr 13, 2005
185
0
16
Vancouver, BC
PEA: you still haven't provided any evidence that the NDP will do a better job when it comes to health care...if the npd spends more on health care, its because they reinstate big labour into the hospitals, not because they care about patients.

Did the NDP do a better job when they were in power? I think not...
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
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36
pumpkin pie bungalow
Its from www.thetyee.ca Are you saying they are bias?? or other just journalists, writers, from all over BC that contribute. Well yes I cut and paste, I have no problem with it, and neither should you. You direct me to a website that is a liberal site. Your posts remind me of the standard mimeographed letters you get in the mail. So even if you don't like it, I am going to keep posting stories from the tyee. Refute them if you like, or not.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
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36
pumpkin pie bungalow
Well now I have some work to do..but I want to leave with this story..

First of a two-part series on the election and rural BC.]

When Gordon Campbell's Liberals swept into office, Dave Chutter rode the wave, winning the MLA seat for Yale-Lillooet.

He's not running this time, a decision he likely contemplated on February 28, 2002, as he sat at the front of the Lillooet Recreation Centre before a seething crowd. Nearly 400 people had come to vent their confusion, frustration and anger. This was just a few weeks after the provincial government had taken the sickle to the town. More than 50 public service jobs would be cut. The local office of the Ministry of Forests was to be closed, along with the courthouse, the Legal Aid office, an elementary school, and the Human Resources office. Rumor had it that the town hospital was about to be downsized.

People in Lillooet felt like their town was being gutted, and Chutter was the local man to blame. Constituents stepped forward and accused the Liberals of betrayal. When Lyle Knight got the chance to speak, the engineering technician asked his colleagues from the town's Ministry of Forests office to stand. "I want you to look at the faces of people whose jobs you just took away," Knight told Chutter.

Another local, Stuart Douglass, threatened Chutter with a recall campaign if the Liberals didn't ease back on the job cuts: "If we go down, you go down," he warned.

Just 10 months before, Chutter had been a cattle rancher in the Nicola Valley near Merritt. Now he sat through a two-hour reprimand in front of an entire town. Throughout the meeting he fought to keep his expression placid and attentive, but everyone could see that below the table his legs were squirming in a continual dance of agitation.

Dashed hopes

It was a remarkable turn of events, given that Lillooet had overwhelmingly voted Liberal in the provincial elections. Bain Gair, vice-president of the Lillooet Chamber of Commerce and publisher of the Bridge River-Lillooet News, says that many people blamed the New Democrats for the sluggish town economy. With the Liberal victory, he says, a glint of optimism returned to Lillooet.

"We all thought the Liberals would put the province's fiscal house in order and build a strong provincial economy, one that would benefit Lillooet as well, " says Gair, a trim man with short hair greying at the temples, dressed in our provincial uniform of jeans and a fleece jacket. "So to have them turn around and kick us in the teeth was difficult."

That sentiment has reverberated throughout the province for much of the last four years. Everyone knew that the Liberals were going to make cuts to the public sector. Gordon Campbell had won a mandate to reduce taxes by trimming waste. But while deeper than expected job and service cuts affected thousands of individuals in the Lower Mainland and Victoria, many small-town British Columbians felt that entire communities were at risk. To fight back, towns launched hunger strikes, recall campaigns, court challenges, angry protests and back-channel pleas, sometimes threatening and sometimes begging the government to relent.

On a Main Street sign you learn that Lillooet - a hamlet of about 3,000 people - is "a forest industry-based community…fortunate to have many other economic resources. BC Rail, BC Hydro, and the Ministries of Forests and Fisheries all have regional offices in town."

Not anymore.

In the last two years, the Ministry of Forests office was cut from 35 people to a skeleton crew of five. Their former office - which the province still rents - sits empty. And BC Rail has been swallowed by CN Rail, headquartered in Montreal. CN reportedly is planning to eliminate most of its Lillooet workforce.

'No real understanding'

These are the kind of economic blows that can cripple a town, says Bain Gair. From the tiny brick office of the Bridge River - Lillooet News, he helped form the town's Community Response Committee. It was the unveiling of their report that brought Dave Chutter to the Lillooet Recreation Centre on February 28.

"There seemed to be no understanding of the real difficulty that these cuts would cause," says Gair. "We were bothered almost as much by the way the cuts were done - without consultation beforehand and without an attempt to help us cope emotionally and economically afterward - as with the cuts themselves."

Ian Routley, chief of staff at the Lillooet Hospital, says that the job cuts meant the loss of a significant part of the town's middle class. They were the type of people who volunteered, who made craft sales and road races happen. "When you lose some of the best jobs in town, it changes the place's whole socioeconomic character," Dr. Routley says. And that, in turn, makes it harder to attract new physicians - a perennial concern in rural B.C. - or the young, energetic, well-educated people needed to vitalize the community.

Cutbacks tended to have multiplier effects. The loss of over $2-million in wages in Lillooet was immediately felt by businesses up and down Main Street. House prices dropped. There were unexpected losses: several mournful pet-owners told me that the cuts led to the departure of the town veterinarian.

Cutbacks in welfare and disability payments sent worried people to Lillooet's government offices. They found that the Legal Aid and Human Resources staff had already been cut, and they were told to get help online or from an automated telephone service. But Dale Calder, a Legal Aid paralegal in Lillooet for 10 years, says that this recommendation was useless for many of her former clients.

"A lot of people I dealt with had a grade four or five education," says Calder, now a district councillor and an angry critic of the Liberal government. "People became absolutely desperate, and they kept coming to me for help. So for the first 13 weeks after my position was cut, I kept working as the Legal Aid help, but it was EI paying me rather than Legal Aid."

Compromises made

To make matters worse, BC Rail's passenger service was cancelled around the same time, ending all public transport in and out of town. If you had to get to court in Kamloops and you didn't have a car, you were forced to hitch hike or - as happened in some cases - wait to be arrested for non-appearance and then make the trip in a police cruiser.

Lillooet's list of woes could go on and on. But in some cases there were compromises made with the government. The town bought the courthouse, and eventually set up a monthly circuit court. A few jobs at the Ministry of Forests were salvaged. The Lillooet Friendship Centre managed to get funding to hire a part-time legal advocate, two years after the Legal Aid office was closed.

What really upsets Bain Gair is that there were ways to lessen the blow of the cuts, if only the government had consulted with the community beforehand. He made that argument to Dave Chutter in front of the Rec Centre crowd. "At the end of the town meeting, what we got from Chutter was, basically, 'I'll take it up with the minister,'" says Gair.

He later had a chance to explain Lillooet's predicament to Gordon Campbell himself. In his brief minutes of face-time with the premier, Gair explained that the sudden loss of 50 jobs in Lillooet was like axing 43,750 of the best-paid and best-educated people the Lower Mainland, or 5,250 in Victoria. "What kind of a reaction do you think that would cause?" he asked the premier.

Campbell, says Gair, scratched down a note and turned to the next speaker.

This winter, Kama Steliga, the executive director of the Lillooet Friendship Centre, saw an increase in use of Lillooet's food bank to 300 people a month, about 10 percent of the town's population. She's seen an elderly couple suddenly lose their benefits and try to survive on a combined income of less than $370 a month. She's been told that because Lillooet has fewer than 5,000 people it cannot have a problem with homelessness, making the town ineligible for related funding. "Tell that to the people living under the bridge outside town," she says.

Steliga points out that there have been some improvements under the Liberals. For instance, she applauds the premier's attention to early childhood education. Lillooet now offers a limited amount of free pre-school to anyone who wants it. "I really believe in the Liberals' motto 'Communities taking care of communities,'" she says. "But the cuts took away our ability to do that."

Booster spirit

The resulting exodus from Lillooet has torn up a small town's social fabric. Gair remembers one night in the men's locker room, when he realized that most of his hockey teammates would soon disappear from town. "It becomes very personal when your colleagues and friends are suddenly gone," he says. "Personally, I never hope to experience it again."

But while hard times are driving some people out of rural communities in British Columbia, residents like Christ'l Roshard refuse to give up.

Roshard and her husband live just outside Lillooet, in a small white house on a bend in the Fraser River. Roshard is the town coroner, a district councillor, and the courthouse clerk when the circuit court is sitting. But I've also seen her buzzing around town in her little red beater as she took a meal to a hospitalized senior, transported an injured loon, or checked on the health of the famed Hangman's Tree that grew in the town cemetery. (The tree is now deceased).

The texture of her life would be impossible to recreate in Vancouver -- whether it is the summer evenings she spends among her grapevines, or the way she knows the family dramas of almost everyone she sees in town. Roshard, like a lot of small town residents, is ready to make tough decisions and sacrifices in order to preserve this kind of lifestyle.

"We've been through a heartbreaking few years," Roshard tells me over breakfast at the Reynold's Hotel. (An incorrigible town booster, she has taken me here to show off the hotel's renovations -- all done with local pine!) "The Liberals were calling us the 'heartland' while ripping the heart right out of us. It's like they had something rotten and wanted to try to make it pretty."

Roshard thinks Lillooet might have turned the corner. She lists off plans for a new aboriginal cultural centre, new local tourism operators, possible tie-ins to the 2010 Olympics, and a town beautification project by a local rock garden artist. By dint of hard work and gorgeous scenery, she believes, Lillooet will fight its way back to vitality.

Bain Gair, the town publisher, is slightly more pessimistic. "The most important thing you need to make a thriving community, a place that people want to stay and help build, is for people to believe in themselves and their future," he says. "These cuts took that away from us, and we're still trying to get it back."

Eyeing the future

Both Roshard and Gair have soured on the provincial Liberal government, and they doubt the Liberals will sweep the Yale-Lilloet riding the way they did in 2001. They both hope that the coming elections will give the province a chance to discuss the future of rural B.C.

As Christ'l Roshard told me, "Out here in the 'heartland,' we're tired of being made to feel like the poor cousin, being ignored and cut without consideration. When it comes right down to it, Vancouver and Victoria need us more than we need them."

This is the first of a two part series. On Monday: The Politics of Rural BC's Future
 

insignificant

Electoral Member
Apr 13, 2005
185
0
16
Vancouver, BC
Well run off and tell tyee than

I think you're missing my point - I (and others) like to know the source of information, so that we can draw our conclusion based on those sources. That is why in any publication, report, paper, school project, etc., that you quote your sources. Others concluded earlier in this forum that my sources of information were biased and incorrect (eg. bc accountants). That's fine - believe what you like. 'nuff said :wink:
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
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36
pumpkin pie bungalow
Sorry I thought I made myself clear in the begining of the thread about where I get my information from www.thetyee.ca. I also read bcfacts.org. The tyee site also as links to bc politics blogs, and the spin by ALL parties. Its actually a very good site, you should check it out.
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
4,125
0
36
57
Vancouver
members.shaw.ca
Re: RE: NDP Have BIG plans in BC again!!!

insignificant said:
field day all you want - fact of the matter is - the NDP destroyed BC's economy in the 90's! If they were to have a repeat [the NDP], I'm not sure that BC could ever recover from the potential damage.

What about the crap economy in the 80's under the Liberals previous incarnation? (Social Credit).

b. Klein runs the most succesful province in the country - highest average hourly pay, and no provincial debt, not to mention no sales tax, so I wouldn't be critisizing that guy too much!

Only because Oil went up so high. How would he of been viewed in the late 70's early 80's when it all tanked?

They [James] claim that Campbell has nothing to do with the booming economy...she's wrong.

She is right. If all the commodies stayed low, BC would be bust.

Campbell has allowed business to operate through reduced red tape.

Gutting the labour act, getting rid of "Fair Wage", cutting back welfare, increasing medical costs, giving tax breaks to his business buddies who do not need them. You know if a business can't function without paying people a descent living wage, maybe they should not be in business.
 

insignificant

Electoral Member
Apr 13, 2005
185
0
16
Vancouver, BC
What about the crap economy in the 80's under the Liberals previous incarnation? (Social Credit).

The economy was far from crap in the 80's! What planet were you living on then? BC's economy was #1 in the 80's - It was the NDP who took us to last place.

Only because Oil went up so high. How would he of been viewed in the late 70's early 80's when it all tanked?

WRONG: Yes the oil market has a large part of the Alberta economy, however, Klein has encouraged business to invest in Alberta - thus creating the lowest unemployment rate in the country!

She is right. If all the commodies stayed low, BC would be bust.

WRONG AGAIN!: BC's #1 commodity IS low [lumber] yet we seem to have Canada's #1 economy (explain that) - BC has attracted other industries, creating a very diverse economy!

Gutting the labour act, getting rid of "Fair Wage", cutting back welfare, increasing medical costs, giving tax breaks to his business buddies who do not need them. You know if a business can't function without paying people a descent living wage, maybe they should not be in business.

Maybe you should run for the NDP - you seem anti-business enough. Are you a part of the NDP's money tree planting program? afterall, who needs business and jobs when money grows on trees???

what's scary is the fact that you are allowed to vote :cry:
 

Wetcoast40

Electoral Member
Feb 21, 2005
159
0
16
Lesser Vancouver
To all posters (Not just you, Pea)
It would be polite and appropriate to attribute the source for your 'cut and paste' items. Many of us would be interested in the source of the information and there is this copyright thingee.
Regards,
Coaster
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
4,125
0
36
57
Vancouver
members.shaw.ca
RE: NDP Have BIG plans in

Maybe you should run for the NDP - you seem anti-business enough. Are you a part of the NDP's money tree planting program? afterall, who needs business and jobs when money grows on trees???

what's scary is the fact that you are allowed to vote Crying or Very sad

How DARE you ever tell me Its scary that I can vote. Everybody has a right to vote whether they are rich, poor, right wing or left wing. How many people died so we can have the right to vote, and your ignorant comment is a slap in the face to vetrans everywhere.

Typical ignorant offensive neocon response. I have never ever said you or anyone else should not vote. It is always you right wingers that want to restrict and take away the rights of people, that don't have the same views as yours.

Funny how the homeless population doubled since your Buddy Campbell got in. here
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Maybe you should run for the NDP - you seem anti-business enough. Are you a part of the NDP's money tree planting program? afterall, who needs business and jobs when money grows on trees???

what's scary is the fact that you are allowed to vote

Mind your manners, Insignificant.
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
Its plain to see who you work for Sig .Every time I sign on you are on the top of this thread spinning the Libs lies.What a joke
 

Letitfly

New Member
Apr 29, 2005
15
0
1
Nanaimo BC
If making BC successful of the backs of those relying on health care and education is all that important and that our debt load is paid by expanded gambling revenues just to name one [ another Campbell deception ] then by all means vote for Campbell. This province is headed for the Mexican style existence which clearly shows by the more than 100% increase in homeless people and the man has only been in for one term. Keep in mind too that this is a guy who couldn't keep a promise or tell the truth in gaining his win the last time. We're about to see much much more of the same again. With the Liberals , it's not about quality of life for British Columbians , it's about winning an election just to stay in power. Remember , most of those generous gifts he's been doling out just before the election have't actually been handed over yet. What are we hearing from Carole James ? Reality !