I think they need to pay taxes. This is not 140 years ago; Aboriginals are not forced to stay on reserves. As such, they need to pay taxes. They cannot stay on reserves, not pay taxes, and expect the government to fund every aspect of their lives!
Must Natives pay Taxes?
- Thread starter CDNBear
- Start date
I'm Native, I pay taxes, I don't live on a reserve anymore, but what about a res that is in the middle of nowhere? What are the Native peoples that have no inclination of joining city life to do?
If I were to relocate to some remote area, would the government allow me to not pay taxes? Hell no!
On one hand, I do not want to force anyone from their home, but on the other, if you have no way to support yourself, your instinct should be to move.
On one hand, I do not want to force anyone from their home, but on the other, if you have no way to support yourself, your instinct should be to move.
I believe that if you live in a country it is your duty to help support it........that being said.........relocated is an understatement and if you FOECED me onto a remote place (res) and I couldnt make it there Id die......period. I couldnt afford to move, Id have no funds to do so.
A deal is a deal. We made the deal with natives and we have to live with it. I believe the old un-PC expression "Indian giver" applies to whites not natives. Can we undo the NAFTA and get back all the taxes and tariffs from the US. I doubt it. Can we demand the nullification of the sale of Alaska from the Russians to the US just because it make s geographical sense and the Alaskan panhandle is the ruin of west coast fisheries and it's profits should go to Canada. Where do we start and where do we draw the line.
There is, but a small problem with that. Not many Natives voluntarily moved, without some form of coersion, to extremely remote places. That in some cses could not sustain the barest of traditional hunting and fishing activities. As well, those that were relocated to areas that at one point sustained traditional ways of self reliance, no longer do, due largely to the encroachment of idustrial activities, such as deforestation, mining and other resource exploitation. That has destroyed the surrounding wild life. On top of that, there are treaties that were put in place, as consessions, that the government would look after the Natives needs and care for them if they gave up land tracts that the government wanted. Tax exemption was and is, but one of the rights guaranteed by treaty.
So in essence, if the government wants to pull back their support or stop certain aspects of treaty obligations, they would infact be breaking the contract. How should that be addressed?
Pretty much self, hence why I do not live on a res, but visit as often as I can.
I start that line at the feet of the leaders that have sketchy or unkept financial records. Lets clean up the waste and missappropriations, then revisit the funding issues, if there is actually a need. Which I highly doubt there will be, once the theft and waste is removed.
And I would agree. As long as that line isn't drawn in blood.
I like that last paragraph in your post and the analogy. The treaties are a bit beyond $5 a year and a new blanket each year, in fact, I have never received a blanket in my time, but that's besides the point. The treaties were created to keep the peace and for other purposes. I think that the treaties are what has made this country what it is today and to back out of them is like saying that there's no more Canada or that the law doesn't have to be respected respectively.
It's not quite the same thing as driving a car and constantly looking in the rearview mirror, but i understand the analysis. Basically, what I am saying is that the Canadian constitution for example is now 24 years old if i am not mistaken, and to deny that it exists because of its age is essentially the same thing. In other words, it still has to be respected regardless of age and history. These were the agreed upon terms of the time and were decalred to last until the grass stops growing and the saskatchewan river runs dry( I think lol...). With that, Canada is obliged and bound by treaty and is deemed jus cogens under international law.
Sometimes I don't think anyone should have to pay taxes. When the majority of the country is against the gov't doing something in oparticular, but the gov't does it anyway is one example I can think of when we should be able to deduct off our taxes. Pols are supposed to be our reps, after all, and when we vote them in, they should bloody well pay attention to us. 
Actually, an even better idea is nail them personally in their wallets, pay taxes, but if a pol or a group of them screw up we should be able to fine them for the cost of the screwup.
Actually, an even better idea is nail them personally in their wallets, pay taxes, but if a pol or a group of them screw up we should be able to fine them for the cost of the screwup.
Thanks for getting the analogy. I do understand that we need to remember what was promised way back when, but at the lowest level I think it's worth weighing fighting for what was promised then with what could be accomplished now by trading that unresolved fight for something that may be more beneficial today.
Let me be careful here.
A few questions for CDNbear, who is well knowledgable on this:
Is their different aggreement for different nations? Iroqouis, 6 nations, etc. Or it a treaty in general for all natives?
So, asking you again, does the Gov. of Canada have all this land in the country, and in return to the natives, we don't tax them, and give them monthly payments? Then how do reserves come into play?
Is their an expiration to this treaty. Meaning are we still going to be giving the Natives their special treatment another century from now? I hope their is set date, to treat all citizens equally...
Just how much land did the evil white man, lol, take? I mean just how much is it all worth, and how much have we so far given to Natives in various means of tax exemptions, etc.
Now, being careful here:
We need to draw the line, we uphold everything we promised, but nothing more, and nothing more extra in the future, we uphold our agreements until they expire.
Alot of folks in Canada, including me (lets not get into my other issue, but you know what I mean), are not educated on the Natives, and what has happened to them, and what we owe them, etc.
So, when ignorant folks in Canada, see Natives on the news, "bitching" for more, as many people see it, these racial prejudice grows.
I am guilty of that, my parents were ignorant, and passed judments when I was a child, and when I saw the news, I was ignorant and passed judgment when I saw Natives asking for more.
So, I believe they deserve everything promised to them upheld to expiry, and please no more!
I dream of a future 50 years from now, when their is no divides in this nation, Quebec, Canada, and Natives, live and are treated equally with no extras, and we live our lives the way we wish, but our equal in all government aspects.
A few questions for CDNbear, who is well knowledgable on this:
Is their different aggreement for different nations? Iroqouis, 6 nations, etc. Or it a treaty in general for all natives?
So, asking you again, does the Gov. of Canada have all this land in the country, and in return to the natives, we don't tax them, and give them monthly payments? Then how do reserves come into play?
Is their an expiration to this treaty. Meaning are we still going to be giving the Natives their special treatment another century from now? I hope their is set date, to treat all citizens equally...
Just how much land did the evil white man, lol, take? I mean just how much is it all worth, and how much have we so far given to Natives in various means of tax exemptions, etc.
Now, being careful here:
We need to draw the line, we uphold everything we promised, but nothing more, and nothing more extra in the future, we uphold our agreements until they expire.
Alot of folks in Canada, including me (lets not get into my other issue, but you know what I mean), are not educated on the Natives, and what has happened to them, and what we owe them, etc.
So, when ignorant folks in Canada, see Natives on the news, "bitching" for more, as many people see it, these racial prejudice grows.
I am guilty of that, my parents were ignorant, and passed judments when I was a child, and when I saw the news, I was ignorant and passed judgment when I saw Natives asking for more.
So, I believe they deserve everything promised to them upheld to expiry, and please no more!
I dream of a future 50 years from now, when their is no divides in this nation, Quebec, Canada, and Natives, live and are treated equally with no extras, and we live our lives the way we wish, but our equal in all government aspects.
Thanx.
There are more treaties then First Nations. There are treaties even within Nations, that differ from region to region and Province to Province.
The reserves is the land that was set aside for our express use, the exclusion from taxation is a result of the fact that we were not considered citizens, thus not subject to taxation, it was later made a treaty right(I could be wrong there, I'm not sure on the time line). The monthly payments, are part of th treaties as well. As we were herded into the reservation system, we were told that we need not worry, the Gov' would look after us, it is even written into several treaties.
No, there isn't. Your continued use of the term "special treatment", leave a lot to be desired. What you see as special treatment, we see as honouring the treaties that were laid out by the Crown.
I'm not impressed with the AFN being front and center, hands out at every chance either. But thanks to the actions of the Crown, there is very little remote reserves can do to create an income base to work with.
All of it, less the reservations. More then any one Nation can afford, not enough yet. In fact, seeing as it's more or less rent, the payments won't stop.
No need to draw any lines, you came you conquered, you made treaties, live up to them. It's all quite simple. The agreements do not expire.
That is a real problem. But the problem is their's to begin with, they make it our problem, when their ignorance is directed at us, in unlawful, violent and detrimental ways. The other problem with that is, they refuse to be educated, either on ones own valision, or when one offers to assist, you may be an exception, but I'll out on my judgement for now.
To some extent I would concure, but one must assess why the First Nations have their hands out, individually or collectively. Either dismiss it or embrace it from there, but to paint my community as a whole by what one percieves, is counter productive and quite unintelligent.
It's not always about wanting more, in many cases, it's about wanting the Fed's to live up to the treaties and address issues where the treaties were ignored and Natives were ripped off.
No problem, seeing that there is no expiry, lest the colonists wish to void the contract, pack up and vacate the premisis, the treaties the Crown is bound to, will continue and the money shall be forwarded.
Don't forget that many Nations do not recieve Government funding, but recieve money held in trust by the Fed's, that was earned by those various Nations from land deals and other venture, ie; mineral rights and so forth.
I dream of a day when the colonists realize that they took, stole and or entered into a contract for the land they now call Canada, we still call her Turtle Island. There are no extras, it was a legally binding contract that the colonists must live up to. They must continue to address the egregious errors that were committed in the name of the Crown and you, we, will likely being paying for those errors forever.
We are quite willing to live along side the many Nations brought here by the colonists, but you can not expect us to roll over and become a footnote in history, because you think it would be better for your wallet or your ego.
This is/was our land first and foremost. For the most part, we have accepted the terms of our surrender. Now it is time for the deniers to accept the terms they laid out and live up to them.
What do the Indians want? Serisously?
That is a serious question. I worked with aboriginal children for 8 yrs and was really involved their parents and the aboriginal 'community' in general withing this city . You want to talk about racism and bigotry, I've been called everything from Snow Whitey to a Wanna be Indian. I mean, wtf is up with that? Can't we all just get along without living in the past and holding on to prejudices? IMHO, the feds should up hold the treaty obligations, and the native commuinty should really provide more LEADERSHIP within their own communities and other native communities. Did you know the degree of self-rule with respect to reserves has a direct relation to sucide rates?
I'm babbling and just venting a bit. I guess I have no real point. Heh, Heh.
That is a serious question. I worked with aboriginal children for 8 yrs and was really involved their parents and the aboriginal 'community' in general withing this city . You want to talk about racism and bigotry, I've been called everything from Snow Whitey to a Wanna be Indian. I mean, wtf is up with that? Can't we all just get along without living in the past and holding on to prejudices? IMHO, the feds should up hold the treaty obligations, and the native commuinty should really provide more LEADERSHIP within their own communities and other native communities. Did you know the degree of self-rule with respect to reserves has a direct relation to sucide rates?
I'm babbling and just venting a bit. I guess I have no real point. Heh, Heh.
Ok,thank you very much CDNbear.
But there has to be some tribe leaders in various reserves, that don't represent the Native community as whole in good light.. I have seen some on Winnipeg news, who don't really, whats the word, represent effectively.
So basically the treaties are, in different terms, a surrender agreement?
Another off-topic questions, do natives still believe in their (irony), native religions?
Like the great spirit and all those tales we here about as kids on TV shows, does that old belief still exist amongst Natives.
I know Matie (french-native cross) woman who I am friends with who is Christian.
Thats what I don't get! Do natives still have the same beliefs their ancestors did centuries ago? or has that been lost?
Also, why do they call it "Indian" Affairs. I thought everyone knows its Native/Aboriginal/First Nations.
On that note: What do you prefer to be called! I don't know! lol.
But there has to be some tribe leaders in various reserves, that don't represent the Native community as whole in good light.. I have seen some on Winnipeg news, who don't really, whats the word, represent effectively.
So basically the treaties are, in different terms, a surrender agreement?
Another off-topic questions, do natives still believe in their (irony), native religions?
Like the great spirit and all those tales we here about as kids on TV shows, does that old belief still exist amongst Natives.
I know Matie (french-native cross) woman who I am friends with who is Christian.
Thats what I don't get! Do natives still have the same beliefs their ancestors did centuries ago? or has that been lost?
Also, why do they call it "Indian" Affairs. I thought everyone knows its Native/Aboriginal/First Nations.
On that note: What do you prefer to be called! I don't know! lol.
The treaties were never a surrender. Our treaties in my territory were never seen as being a surrender of land or of being conquered or anything like that. Our treaty is one of peace and a result of my ancestors knowing what was to come in the future and what was happening in their time.
The teachings and spirituality do still exist, but not all of our people practise it as much as we could. I cannot speak for all nations in Canada or anywhere else for that matter. Some of our ceremonies have christianity incorporated into them, that said, we are still trying to put what is left of our cultures back together.
As for department ofIndian affairs, that's good question. we are obviously not from India.
Yes when Columbus came to N. America he thought he had reached India, and he called the Natives, Indians.
And so that lasts today.
But now the PC terms are: Natives/Aboriginals/First Nations, why does our government call it "Indian Affairs"
lol, and they have never had a "Indian" lead it or a "Native" for that matter!
lol.
And so that lasts today.
But now the PC terms are: Natives/Aboriginals/First Nations, why does our government call it "Indian Affairs"
lol, and they have never had a "Indian" lead it or a "Native" for that matter!
lol.
I think you had a great point......be honourable and lead instead of bitch. Yup theres alot of that that needs to go around.
I couldnt tell ya. In my knowledge very few are on the res here. Most are melted into the populous. If your on the res you go by res law. But I think each state has diffent laws because theres a ruckus going on in Virginia about Virginia res'.
What I don't like is the casinos on the reserves.
My town has a Native reserve just 25 minutes away across the border, and all the people with no life or seniors go down there to gamble every weekend.
Its sad, and I don't like how they use their advantage of their own laws to bring such a self-destructing establishment into their reserve to make money off... well... the white man!
Thats my main issue... is the casinos.. have had an uncle that wasted away tens of thousands of investments away at a Native casino..
My town has a Native reserve just 25 minutes away across the border, and all the people with no life or seniors go down there to gamble every weekend.
Its sad, and I don't like how they use their advantage of their own laws to bring such a self-destructing establishment into their reserve to make money off... well... the white man!
Thats my main issue... is the casinos.. have had an uncle that wasted away tens of thousands of investments away at a Native casino..