I'm with you Mike 8) I'd tell you what I would really like to do but I'd probably have unwanted visitors :lol:
More than politics, this is a national crisis
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It is based on cross-Canada polls. Alberta doesn't get to run this country, they get a say based on population just like every other region. Nobody cares how oil you have and there are a lot of progressive people in Alberta as well...not a majority, but an ever more significant minority.
You can quit referring to Alberta as "the west" too. The west starts a little ways to the east of me. They even put up a sign. Alberta is no more representative of the rest of west than Ontario is of Alberta.
Harper is from the same neo-conservative/Straussian school of thought as George Bush. That points to bigger government, increased debt, severely reduced social and environmental programs, and tax breaks that benefit the very rich, not the working people.
Anybody who thinks Harper is some sort of fiscal saviour need only look south.
And he's the biggest piece of wood I've ever seen :lol: He's got the personality of a gnat and the warmth of a badger 
I know but i had a brain lock and could not come up with anything better :lol: I've been working the grave yard shift for the last seven days 12 on 12 off and it's finally getting to me :wink:
The problem for Harper now, is the fact that he needs the help of the Bloc to bring the Liberals down. This means the Conservatives look so hungry for power they will sell out the country itself to achieve their goal.
Climbing in bed with those who would break up the country could prove to be a huge problem.
The Conservatives are a divided party with a big power struggle in progress and the LIberals are on the verge of a civil war within their own ranks. In contrast the NDP is a stable ship as most of the members are on side with its leadership.
If the Tories push an election past June 20th there will be a backlash from Canadians, if they wait until fall or after Christmas, they will lose any hope of forming a government. If they become allied with the bloc, eastern Canada and Ontario will vote either Liberal or NDP. As I see it the only party to really gain from forcing an election is the NDP, and they are quite content to watch the Tories commit political suicide.
The end result of an election now might see a Liberal minority with the NDP as the opposition, not the Conservatives. If the Bloc takes all of Quebec, the NDP could come very close to upsetting the apple cart and forming a minority government. No matter which way it goes I don't believe the will be a majority in Ottawa.
Have the Tories really become that desperate that they will hang out publically with the Bloc just to smell the scent of power? I tell you, an alliance with the Bloc would be the kiss of death for the Harper crowd.
Climbing in bed with those who would break up the country could prove to be a huge problem.
The Conservatives are a divided party with a big power struggle in progress and the LIberals are on the verge of a civil war within their own ranks. In contrast the NDP is a stable ship as most of the members are on side with its leadership.
If the Tories push an election past June 20th there will be a backlash from Canadians, if they wait until fall or after Christmas, they will lose any hope of forming a government. If they become allied with the bloc, eastern Canada and Ontario will vote either Liberal or NDP. As I see it the only party to really gain from forcing an election is the NDP, and they are quite content to watch the Tories commit political suicide.
The end result of an election now might see a Liberal minority with the NDP as the opposition, not the Conservatives. If the Bloc takes all of Quebec, the NDP could come very close to upsetting the apple cart and forming a minority government. No matter which way it goes I don't believe the will be a majority in Ottawa.
Have the Tories really become that desperate that they will hang out publically with the Bloc just to smell the scent of power? I tell you, an alliance with the Bloc would be the kiss of death for the Harper crowd.
I'm not sure that the man who wanted to, "build a firewall around Alberta," considers that to be a real problem. Like Duceppe, harper would like to gain all of the benefits of separation without even acknowledging the detriments. At least Ducepe is honest about it though.
Reverend Blair said:
Rev, I never said that only Alberta represents the west, so don/t go putting words in my mouth. Frankly, I consider anything west of Ontario part of the west. I suggest you look again at the conservative platform regarding tax reductions, it reduces it for the vast majority of the populace and would have the effect of taking a lot of lower income people completely off the tax rolls. And by the way, it is very clear to all of us in Alberta that we don't have any say in the country, let alone how to run it. The only thing we seem to provide is a lot of money for the rest of the country to squander on unproven theories and unwanted social programs. You are against private companies making a profit, but you have absolutely no hesitation in sending money to a government that has absolutely no incentive to run an efficient country, spending on social programs that are needed, and maintaining an effective military, which also includes the coast guard, by the way. The government is the biggest corporation in the country, with no controls on spending, or what to do with the money it gets, just look at the kickbacks to the Liberal party and the amount of money hidden away in foundations that no one can look at. Why shouldn't Alberta get a little cranky over that? It was partly our money that went to these places. Maybe we should all include a $5k tax receipt when filing our tax returns as a contribution to the Liberal party of Canada?
Which is it? Are you lumping me in with you, or are you willing to accept that three out four western provinces increasingly consider Alberta to be acting like a whining child?
I have looked. I've also looked at their records. You know how the old saying goes...actions speak louder than words. I don't want health care and education gutted so that I can buy one more case of beer a year. I don't want the roads and highways to fall apart so I can buy one more pack of smokes. I especially don't want that in a situation where companies are getting huge tax breaks, then subsidies under the guise of job creation that never happens.
You guys had your budget. It was there. When it first came down, Stevie Harper was so ecstatic he didn't even wait for the House to break for the day before he rushed out to tell the press how great it was. You had your say. You had most of what you wanted. Then Stevie decided he wanted to play politics and that all went away, except it didn't really go away...it was just postponed for a bit. So cry me a river about how you don't have any input. Don't let the facts get in the way.
What unproven theories? Don't say global warming either...there is as much supporting evidence for that as there is for anything else in science.
What unwanted social programs? The Gun Registry? Sorry, but nobody on the right came up with a decent alternative. Instead you got Chuck Heston to come to Canada and give us speeches about our constitutional right to bear arms. Problem is that isn't a right in Canada, so all you did was piss a bunch of us off. In the end you got a law written by people who had no knowledge of guns because you didn't want to participate, you wanted to jump up and down and stamp your feet.
That is quite simply untrue. Now that you are aware of that, be aware of this...the next time you make such a statement I will simply call you a liar.
This is also untrue.
The truth is that we have different ideas of what shape our social programs will take and which social programs are necessary. Most Canadians want a national child care program. Most Canadians want their kids to be able to go to university. Most Canadians want clean air.
Don't confuse the corruption of the Liberal Party with the running of government and don't try to paint the Liberals as any more corrupt than the Conservatives. We know better.
Wow, Rev, what a lot of stuff.
As far as whining child, too bad, we're big enough to take it. The only complaining we do is about how our money is spent, so if you want to call it whining, go ahead. If prefer to call it wanting some accountability.
Actions Speak Louder than Words? You bet, and the actions of the Liberals federally and the NDP provincially speak volumes. The Liberals steal and the NDP spends into bankruptcy.
Budget? Sorry you lost me on that one, which budget are you talking about?
Yes, global warming has not been proven at all, either way and Kyoto is simply nothing but a transfer of wealth scheme. How can transferring billions of dollars to a country that has not signed on to Kyoto, with no accountability as to how the money is to be spent, better than spending the money in our country on environmental issues? And let's not ever confuse global warming with pollution, they are two totally separate issues.
Private company profits? If you say so, but a review of your past posts would certainly lead one to believe you abhored the idea of private companies making profits. However, I stand corrected on this one.
National Day Care? There was no demand for this at all until the Liberals had to find another way to spend or launder our money. This has the potential to be a bigger boondoggle than anything we have seen to date, and far more costly.
Gun Registry? From a million to 2 billion with absolutely no results. See National Day Care above, and corruption below.
Corrupt? The liberals have been in power for over 30 of the last 40 years, and yet the left thinks that the conservatives caused the problems in this country and are worse than the Liberals? As I recall, the LIberals sued Mulroney over the airbus, and lost, so don't haul that old crap out again. The helicopters? Chretien cancelled them out of spite, which again cost us a ton more money, and still no helicopters we needed over a decade ago. GST? It replaced a hidden MST subject to change by the government of the day, and actually reduced costs on a lot of items. The proof that the GST is better than the MST is that the rate has not changed at all since inception, because it is out in the open. Even Liberals understand this, although they again misrepresented themselves during the 93 election on this issue. Remember the HRDC billion dollar boondoggle? Liberals again. So adding it all up, it would seem clear the Liberals are the masters of corruption, not the Conservatives, no matter how hard you want to try and paint them as the bad guys.
As far as whining child, too bad, we're big enough to take it. The only complaining we do is about how our money is spent, so if you want to call it whining, go ahead. If prefer to call it wanting some accountability.
Actions Speak Louder than Words? You bet, and the actions of the Liberals federally and the NDP provincially speak volumes. The Liberals steal and the NDP spends into bankruptcy.
Budget? Sorry you lost me on that one, which budget are you talking about?
Yes, global warming has not been proven at all, either way and Kyoto is simply nothing but a transfer of wealth scheme. How can transferring billions of dollars to a country that has not signed on to Kyoto, with no accountability as to how the money is to be spent, better than spending the money in our country on environmental issues? And let's not ever confuse global warming with pollution, they are two totally separate issues.
Private company profits? If you say so, but a review of your past posts would certainly lead one to believe you abhored the idea of private companies making profits. However, I stand corrected on this one.
National Day Care? There was no demand for this at all until the Liberals had to find another way to spend or launder our money. This has the potential to be a bigger boondoggle than anything we have seen to date, and far more costly.
Gun Registry? From a million to 2 billion with absolutely no results. See National Day Care above, and corruption below.
Corrupt? The liberals have been in power for over 30 of the last 40 years, and yet the left thinks that the conservatives caused the problems in this country and are worse than the Liberals? As I recall, the LIberals sued Mulroney over the airbus, and lost, so don't haul that old crap out again. The helicopters? Chretien cancelled them out of spite, which again cost us a ton more money, and still no helicopters we needed over a decade ago. GST? It replaced a hidden MST subject to change by the government of the day, and actually reduced costs on a lot of items. The proof that the GST is better than the MST is that the rate has not changed at all since inception, because it is out in the open. Even Liberals understand this, although they again misrepresented themselves during the 93 election on this issue. Remember the HRDC billion dollar boondoggle? Liberals again. So adding it all up, it would seem clear the Liberals are the masters of corruption, not the Conservatives, no matter how hard you want to try and paint them as the bad guys.
[/quote]Harper is from the same neo-conservative/Straussian school of thought as George Bush. That points to bigger government, increased debt, severely reduced social and environmental programs, and tax breaks that benefit the very rich, not the working people.
Anybody who thinks Harper is some sort of fiscal saviour need only look south.[/quote]
There was something about this that bothered me, so went looking in other threads, and by golly, there it was. On April 27, Rev, in the "National Crisis" thread at 12:09 am, Page 8, you said that the middlg class was rich. Now although you said in the above quote that the very rich would benefit, if you think the middle class is rich, and tax breaks will affect the rich, and the vast majority of working people fall into the middle class, I have to ask what is wrong with this? Tax breaks for the rich, and taking a lot of low income people off the income tax rolls sounds like a win for everyone.
Anybody who thinks Harper is some sort of fiscal saviour need only look south.[/quote]
There was something about this that bothered me, so went looking in other threads, and by golly, there it was. On April 27, Rev, in the "National Crisis" thread at 12:09 am, Page 8, you said that the middlg class was rich. Now although you said in the above quote that the very rich would benefit, if you think the middle class is rich, and tax breaks will affect the rich, and the vast majority of working people fall into the middle class, I have to ask what is wrong with this? Tax breaks for the rich, and taking a lot of low income people off the income tax rolls sounds like a win for everyone.
It's a system of transfer payments. You happened to land on a whack of oil and gas, so you have to share. Tough titty...when your province was poor the other provinces shared with you. When your province is poor again, the other provinces will again share with you.
Funny...Saskatchewan is have province under the NDP. They were on the verge of bankruptcy when the Conservatives were in power. those same Conservatives stole, by the way. Several of them ended up in jail for it. Before those Conservatives came to power there was an NDP government in power. The province was in the black then too.
The Manitoba economy is also doing better under the NDP than it did under the previous Conservative Filmon government. By the way, the current federal Conservative justice critic was part of that Filmon government. He recently admitted to breaking Manitoba election laws. Conservatives in this province have a bit of a history of that. Some other Conservatives actually paid a dummy candidate to run in an attempt to split the centre/left vote.
The original budget that Stevie was creaming his jeans over until his poll numbers went up.
You should check the Kyoto thread. Read the multitude of links I put up. I understand that science is complicated, but climate change is real and it is caused by our actions. You should also take the time to learn a little bit about the Kyoto Agreement, how it came into being, why it isn't stronger, and how it is only meant to be a first step.
If you are incapable of understanding all of the intricacies of that, then consider this. Kyoto will benefit the economy by introducing new technologies. That has been the case throughout human history. If we take Stevie's tact and try to back out of it, it will cost us bucketloads of money and we'll fall way behind technologically.
Greenhouse gases are pollution. Do you really believe the lies that George Bush and Stevie Harper feed you?
Damned right you stand corrected because I've never said that or anything close to that. You tried to twist thing things based on myths that spew from the radical right and you got caught. This isn't the Bill O'Reilly show.
There has been a call for this since 1993. I know people who voted for the Liberals specifically because of this. The demand is driven by the fact that most couples cannot afford for one parent to stay hame and raise the kids due to the stagnations of real wages driven by corporate irresponibility.
I never said it was good, I said that you you failed to oppose it because of your stupid tactics. As an opposition party the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives have a long history of screaming about scandal and yelling and screaming a lot, but no record at all of presenting alternatives or asking for input. The result is that you end up with things like the gun registry.
I've been over this before, but maybe you'll pay attention this time. During the time he was in power, Mulroney lost an average of one Minister a year to scandal. Conservative MPS were doing weekends in jail and sitting in the House during the week. mulroney had his own little adscam going too, and Chuck Guite was right in the middle of that.
I went over a few provincial points earlier in this post. Pay attention to them.
It isn't that the left thinks the Conservatives are more corrupt than the Liberals, it is that all the facts point to the Conservatives being just as corrupt as the Liberals.
Don't try to take things out of context or twist my words, little buddy. You really aren't very good at it.
My you have a way of revising history. As far as Kyoto goes, I will take the words of many qualifed scientist over you multitude of posting, thank you. They at least are believable and by definition must look at all sides of the issue. Kyoto will financially destroy this country. How do you propose to pay for higher fuel and heating costs? Whether you like it or not, this is a vast cold country that requires fuel for transportation and heat. As fuel costs increase, so does the cost of transportation, meaning the cost of our goods increases. This causes an inflationary spiral, causing interest rates to increase, making loans and mortgages less affordable, thus hurting the middle class again. Let's keep the billions of dollars in Canada to use to make our technology better, if that is desired. Or, you could all move to Alberta where the air is clean and people are pure.
As far as twisting your words, you said them, I just repeated them. Something about your own petard, I believe.
National Daycare will be a financial nightmare. This will be a unionized industry, which will automatically raise the level a parent or parents will have to pay for daycare. Given that there is a massive amount of subisidies already in the daycare industry, this will force subsidies to go higher, thus making the cost of the industry itself and the cost of the subsidies both increase. Here is a thought, why not make it beneficial for one parent (or both) to stay home with their kids by providing incentives through the tax system. Most parents would love to have one stay with their kids through the formative years if they could afford to, and possibly by reducing the massive amount of taxes we have to pay and leaving more money in the parents pockets, some could actually do this. And the only time daycare started to be discussed was when the liberals came back to power. Again, another way to spend our money.
As far as twisting your words, you said them, I just repeated them. Something about your own petard, I believe.
National Daycare will be a financial nightmare. This will be a unionized industry, which will automatically raise the level a parent or parents will have to pay for daycare. Given that there is a massive amount of subisidies already in the daycare industry, this will force subsidies to go higher, thus making the cost of the industry itself and the cost of the subsidies both increase. Here is a thought, why not make it beneficial for one parent (or both) to stay home with their kids by providing incentives through the tax system. Most parents would love to have one stay with their kids through the formative years if they could afford to, and possibly by reducing the massive amount of taxes we have to pay and leaving more money in the parents pockets, some could actually do this. And the only time daycare started to be discussed was when the liberals came back to power. Again, another way to spend our money.
The Good Reverend Said:
"Funny...Saskatchewan is have province under the NDP. They were on the verge of bankruptcy when the Conservatives were in power. those same Conservatives stole, by the way. Several of them ended up in jail for it. Before those Conservatives came to power there was an NDP government in power. The province was in the black then too.
When did Saskatchewan become a have province? They are a net recepient of transfer payments, not a provider of transfer payments. As far as Mulroney ministers go, as I said earlier, one resigned for attending a strip club in Germany, so let's take your claims with a grain of salt. Somehow, this type of "scandal" pales in comparison with a scandal like the current Liberals, when Martin was either incompetent as a finance minister, or was involved. There was too much going on for him not to be one or the other, and to now claim innocence, is the height of hypocrisy. By the way, how does the NDP feel about the flip flop Martin has now done on the $4.6 billion? Just like a Hoover, sucked in again>
"Funny...Saskatchewan is have province under the NDP. They were on the verge of bankruptcy when the Conservatives were in power. those same Conservatives stole, by the way. Several of them ended up in jail for it. Before those Conservatives came to power there was an NDP government in power. The province was in the black then too.
When did Saskatchewan become a have province? They are a net recepient of transfer payments, not a provider of transfer payments. As far as Mulroney ministers go, as I said earlier, one resigned for attending a strip club in Germany, so let's take your claims with a grain of salt. Somehow, this type of "scandal" pales in comparison with a scandal like the current Liberals, when Martin was either incompetent as a finance minister, or was involved. There was too much going on for him not to be one or the other, and to now claim innocence, is the height of hypocrisy. By the way, how does the NDP feel about the flip flop Martin has now done on the $4.6 billion? Just like a Hoover, sucked in again>