More Harper hypocrisy

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

The conservatives don't have to perform as an effective government if they're able to effectively dominate the opposition through intimidation. By constantly attacking the opposition the conservative government seeks to neutralize one more way to hold it accountable, this may serve the interests of the conservative party, but it doesn't serve the interests of Canadians.

The Liberals are in the position they are in because of their own actions. Very much the same way the Conservatives were in the doldrums after voter revolt in the post Mulroney era.

You can spin this any way you like, but if the Liberals had been smart they would have went Brains and Charisma instead of Lame and GQ good looks. If Justin wants to stop the Cons from holding him accountable he best stuff a sock in it and get down to the business of rebuilding his party. Showing up to vote on a motion he started might not hurt either.

Justin absent from vote for motion he put forth

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Justin Trudeau: young, defenseless, and a rape victim.

Yeah, I'm not seeing the hypocrisy. I think attack ads are sleazy and a sad sign, but no hypocrisy here.

Mr. Harper is being hypocritical in meeting with the parents of a young Canadian who lost in her life in face of a concerted effort to degrade and dominate her by bullies of the worst kind.

The whole technique of conservative politicking is based on degrading and intimidating the opposition. We saw it with Stephane Dion, with Michael Ignatieff, with Thomas Mulcair and now with Justin Trudeau. It doesn't matter if the conservatives keep claiming it's acceptable, it's the negative results of such negative campaigning that are concerning.

The Liberals are in the position they are in because of their own actions. Very much the same way the Conservatives were in the doldrums after voter revolt in the post Mulroney era.

You can spin this any way you like, but if the Liberals had been smart they would have went Brains and Charisma instead of Lame and GQ good looks. If Justin wants to stop the Cons from holding him accountable he best stuff a sock in it and get down to the business of rebuilding his party. Showing up to vote on a motion he started might not hurt either.

Justin absent from vote for motion he put forth

I disagree.

The Liberals were in the position they deserved a few leaders ago. Now the nation is in a very unhealthy place politically because the sitting government feels it doesn't have to be accountable to anyone if it just keeps neutralizing any and all opposition. An oppositional Parliamentary system doesn't work very well- if at all - if the opposition isn't allowed to function at all. It may suit the interests of the sitting government, but that's not the intent of the Parliamentary system, without some degree of popular expression of ideas and desires then the system will eventually lose popular support. By behaving in such an irresponsible manner the government acts to degrade the entire system.

 

[JamesBondo]

Mr. Harper is being hypocritical in meeting with the parents of a young Canadian who lost in her life in face of a concerted effort to degrade and dominate her by bullies of the worst kind.
.

I think it is sad when you are unable to leave your anti-harper politics at the door when you speak of real world events.

 

[Jonny_C]

By constantly attacking the opposition the conservative government seeks to neutralize one more way to hold it accountable, this may serve the interests of the conservative party, but it doesn't serve the interests of Canadians.

Whether a particular gov't serves the interests of Canadians is a matter of opinion, and can be a matter of partisanship, as you so amply show.

In order to do stuff, you have to be in power. Gaining and maintaining power is part of the political game, the most important part. You seem to have an overly altruistic view compared to how things really work.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

I think it is sad when you are unable to leave your anti-harper politics at the door when you speak of real world events.

You call it anti-Harper, I call it pro-Canadian. I'm not referring to personal characteristics of Mr. Harper here as the conservatives are in attacking Justin Trudeau, I'm referring to the overall negative affects such behaviour has on Canadian politics and our society.

In the end the fortunes of the conservative party, or the Liberals or NDP for that matter aren't what's important, it's the fortunes of Canada as a nation and Canadians as a people. It's not something you'd think was important to conservatives the way they keep talking about using any means to advance their interests no matter the overall affect to Canada.

 

[Zipperfish]

I think the whole twinkle-toes thing will backfire on the Conservatvies big time. Sure the Angry White Guys will be on board, but, certainly in urban centres, attitudes have changed quite a bit. It was a mistake also to use taxpayers money to print what are basically "Trudeau is a fag" pamphlets.

Trudeau screwed up big time on the Boston bombings. Harper was much better; much more statesman-like. But this is just giving ground back to Trudeau.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Whether a particular gov't serves the interests of Canadians is a matter of opinion, and can be a matter of partisanship, as you so amply show.

In order to do stuff, you have to be in power. Gaining and maintaining power is part of the political game, the most important part. You seem to have an overly altruistic view compared to how things really work.

It's not a game, that's the problem, the decisions made today in Ottawa are going to have consequences for years that will affect the lives of millions of Canadians often very negatively. That's the whole point in having a democratic system in the first place, if you're going to take on such significant responsibility then there should be some means to hold you accountable. The conservatives aren't representing the people of Canada by acting in such a negative manner, they're representing their own interests at the long term expense of the rest of Canada.

The "pieces" you seem to want to manipulate in such a cynical way are people who have rights and interests that are often at odds with individuals and parties that seek power in this nation. It's why we're supposed to have a democratic system in the first place, to accommodate this discrepancy.

It's not getting a lot of support from the conservative party itself.

Trudeau Ads: More Tory MPs Say They Won't Mail Out Attack Pamphlets

A growing number of Conservative MPs say they won't mail their constituents the party's latest attacks on Justin Trudeau.

A taxpayer-funded pamphlet on the Liberal leader was handed out to MPs at last week's caucus meeting.

It says Trudeau lacks the experience necessary to govern, and points to the fact he once worked as a camp councillor and a drama teacher.

But several Conservatives from across the country are now saying the material is not their style, and they won't use it.

The conservatives could do very well in re-thinking their leadership for the next election.

 

[Jonny_C]

It's not a game, that's the problem, the decisions made today in Ottawa are going to have consequences for years that will affect the lives of millions of Canadians often very negatively. That's the whole point in having a democratic system in the first place, if you're going to take on such significant responsibility then there should be some means to hold you accountable...
The "pieces" you seem to want to manipulate in such a cynical way are people who have rights and interests that are often at odds with individuals and parties that seek power in this nation. It's why we're supposed to have a democratic system in the first place, to accommodate this discrepancy

Our democratic system is based on having an election every 4 to 5 years, period. That's when you get your say.

A government rules by mandate, and it wants to rule with a view toward having that mandate renewed; that's realistically as much say as you have. The government keeps its finger on the pulse of public opinion, sometimes well and sometimes poorly. It tries to rule by guesstimating that pulse, and it will lose the next election if it mis-reads too badly.

The rest of what you seem to fondly think of as the democratic process (meaning, to you, that the government has to listen to you) doesn't work that way. If it did, we would be ruled by referendum.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Our democratic system is based on having an election every 4 to 5 years, period. That's when you get your say.

A government rules by mandate, and it wants to rule with a view toward having that mandate renewed; that's realistically as much say as you have. The government keeps its finger on the pulse of public opinion, sometimes well and sometimes poorly. It tries to rule by guesstimating that pulse, and it will lose the next election if it mis-reads too badly.

The rest of what you seem to fondly think of as the democratic process (meaning, to you, that the government has to listen to you) doesn't work that way. If it did, we would be ruled by referendum.

It's far more complex than that and at it's base is determined by having access to accurate information, it's one reason why the conservatives are attempting to define Justin Trudeau in their terms before he defines himself for Canadians.

The conservatives(Mr. Harper anyway) seem to see government as something that is done to Canadians as opposed to something that is done for them.

 

[L Gilbert]

Of course there is, the reason we send them to Ottawa is to represent us, not tear down the structure of the system that's supposed to provide a means for the citizens of Canada to have access to power.

The conservatives don't have to perform as an effective government if they're able to effectively dominate the opposition through intimidation. By constantly attacking the opposition the conservative government seeks to neutralize one more way to hold it accountable, this may serve the interests of the conservative party, but it doesn't serve the interests of Canadians.

Never watched Question Period, have you? The ruling gov't gets attacked constantly there. The Gliberals did it, the Dippers do it, the Cons did it. I get flyers in the mail from a few parties always moaning and groaning about the "other guy" and what should be going on. Welcome to the world of politics, pilgrim.

Mr. Harper is being hypocritical in meeting with the parents of a young Canadian who lost in her life in face of a concerted effort to degrade and dominate her by bullies of the worst kind.

The whole technique of conservative politicking is based on degrading and intimidating the opposition. We saw it with Stephane Dion, with Michael Ignatieff, with Thomas Mulcair and now with Justin Trudeau. It doesn't matter if the conservatives keep claiming it's acceptable, it's the negative results of such negative campaigning that are concerning.

In case you've forgotten, ChRETIeN was a master mudslinger. Is that the Cons' fault, too, or was it the ChRETIeN govt's own initiative? He sure threw enough flak at Harpy and so did that silver-spooned bombast Martin when Harpy went for the leadership.

I disagree.

So what.

The Liberals were in the position they deserved a few leaders ago. Now the nation is in a very unhealthy place politically because the sitting government feels it doesn't have to be accountable to anyone if it just keeps neutralizing any and all opposition. An oppositional Parliamentary system doesn't work very well- if at all - if the opposition isn't allowed to function at all. It may suit the interests of the sitting government, but that's not the intent of the Parliamentary system, without some degree of popular expression of ideas and desires then the system will eventually lose popular support. By behaving in such an irresponsible manner the government acts to degrade the entire system.

Since when has the mudslinging ever phased someone halfways decent at politics? I don't care who runs for leader of whatever party, they should be able to tough it out in the political ring. But apparently you think that Turdeau should be treated with kid gloves because he's "special" or something.

The rest of what you seem to fondly think of as the democratic process (meaning, to you, that the government has to listen to you) doesn't work that way. If it did, we would be ruled by referendum.

ooo Direct democracy scares you, does it? lol Used to work quite well for some aboriginal nations. It seems to keep the Swiss happy. lol
But you're right, the only time we come close to a democracy (under ANY party's gov't, Cobalt) is at election time. Then we get to choose what dictators we want to run the country.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Never watched Question Period, have you? The ruling gov't gets attacked constantly there. The Gliberals did it, the Dippers do it, the Cons did it. I get flyers in the mail from a few parties always moaning and groaning about the "other guy" and should be going on. Welcome to the world of politics, pilgrim.

In case you've forgotten, ChRETIeN was a master mudslinger. Is that the Cons' fault, too, or was it the ChRETIeN govt's own initiative? He sure threw enough flak at Harpy and so did that silver-spooned bombast Martin when Harpy went for the leadership.

So what.

Since when has the mudslinging ever phased someone halfways decent at politics? I don't care who runs for leader of whatever party, they should be able to tough it out in the political ring. But apparently you think that Turdeau should be treated with kid gloves because he's "special" or something.

Based on how you keep claiming we have no democracy in Canada it's no wonder you only see the negative aspects of politics, that's probably has more to do with your outlook than reality.

There are and always have been effective and positive politicians in this country who do the best they can despite the presence of individuals who seek to exploit the system towards their own ends. They should be encouraged and supported, not the people who want to exploit the worst aspects of our politics, like endless negative campaigning.

 

[L Gilbert]

The conservatives(Mr. Harper anyway) seem to see government as something that is done to Canadians as opposed to something that is done for them.

Yeah, we got that from the previous half dozen gov'ts, too.

Based on how you keep claiming we have no democracy in Canada it's no wonder you only see the negative aspects of politics, that's probably has more to do with your outlook than reality.

lmao I have good reason to think lowly of most politicians.

There are and always have been effective and positive politicians in this country who do the best they can despite the presence of individuals who seek to exploit the system towards their own ends.

yeah, but they are few and far between.

They should be encouraged and supported, not the people who want to exploit the worst aspects of our politics, like endless negative campaigning.

I agree, but as I said, they are few and far between, which is why the past few gov'ts have been filled with duds and culls.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Yeah, we got that from the previous half dozen gov'ts, too.

Could it be that negative ad campaigns work because of people who see the world in such negative terms.

We can and should do better than this kind of constant negativism, Canadians are a better people than this.

 

[captain morgan]

That could happen. I kind of see Thomas Mulcair and the current "angry man" of Canadian politics.

The general direction of the party doesn't help either.

Mulcair is becoming a liability to federalism — and to the NDP itself | Full Comment | National Post

To me it makes perfect sense that the NDP are most threatened by Trudeau.... Mulcair has established a beach-head in Quebec, he definitely needs to preserve that and it's fair to say that Trudeau will probably see his biggest inroads in his home province.

My bet: The attack ads from the NDP will be centered around Trudeau not understanding 'the working man' and likely portray him as an out-of-touch elite.

 

[L Gilbert]

Could it be that negative ad campaigns work because of people who see the world in such negative terms.

We can and should do better than this kind of constant negativism, Canadians are a better people than this.

So, what particular shade of rosy are your glasses?

To me it makes perfect sense that the NDP are most threatened by Trudeau.... Mulcair has established a beach-head in Quebec, he definitely needs to preserve that and it's fair to say that Trudeau will probably see his biggest inroads in his home province.

My bet: The attack ads from the NDP will be centered around Trudeau not understanding 'the working man' and likely portray him as an out-of-touch elite.

Good point.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

So this is your response to the serious issue of bullying in Canada and destructive effect that such negative campaigning has on our society?

It's really not worth reading.

How can politics be confused with bullying?

 

[L Gilbert]

How can politics be confused with bullying?

lol Politics and religion - the roots of bullyology.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Canada won't even be here in the form it is if it weren't for thousands of Canadians getting involved under the Liberal party during the 1990s that some of you condemn so absolutely.

That was democracy in action and although it did weaken the political and social structure of Canada there's more than enough resiliency left in this country I think to remove a party that's been doing it's best to exploit those weaknesses while in government since 2006.

The conservatives under Mr. Harper go negative not because it's required of them or even because that's the best method of engaging in politics, it's because that's the behaviour most suited to them. I don't think it truly represents this nation and judging by the growing discontent I doubt it will work much longer.

 

[L Gilbert]

Canada won't even be here in the form it is if it weren't for thousands of Canadians getting involved under the Liberal party during the 1990s that some of you condemn so absolutely.

So you're saying that today's Canada is a result of Liberal works in the '90s. Interesting.

That was democracy in action and although it did weaken the political and social structure of Canada there's more than enough resiliency left in this country I think to remove a party that's been doing it's best to exploit those weaknesses while in government since 2006.

Yeah, I agree that Liberal activities included ignoring maintenance on education, healthcare, etc., as well as major scandals.

The conservatives under Mr. Harper go negative not because it's required of them or even because that's the best method of engaging in politics, it's because that's the behaviour most suited to them. I don't think it truly represents this nation and judging by the growing discontent I doubt it will work much longer.

That's your opinion and that's fine. Harpy's still a piker in comparison to ChRETIeN, though, when it comes to nasty politics.

 

[Jonny_C]

It's far more complex than that and at it's base is determined by having access to accurate information, it's one reason why the conservatives are attempting to define Justin Trudeau in their terms before he defines himself for Canadians.

You can't seem to grasp that that's politics. The parties and the leaders are adversaries, they don't have to play nice with each other.

The conservatives(Mr. Harper anyway) seem to see government as something that is done to Canadians as opposed to something that is done for them.

If that's so, it's no more true of the Conservatives than it is of the Liberals. But being so heavily partisan for the Liberals, you think they have a lock on wanting what's best for the country. Give your head a shake. If your naïve idealism needs an outlet, vote Green. ;-)

Canada won't even be here in the form it is if it weren't for thousands of Canadians getting involved under the Liberal party during the 1990s that some of you condemn so absolutely.

It's bare-faced statments like this that make it plain that there's no objectivity in you. Trying to get you to examine political realities is a waste of time. I should stop wasting my time. ;-)