Probably alot better, given the massive amount of that money spent on guns and weapons. I'd be willing to say it would be better off had we given them nothing. They spent the money on guns, blew up their industries left over from colonialism (it wasn't much but it was something) then got stuck with massive interest payments on money they needed to borrow, to buy guns since their neighbour started shooting at them (with guns bought with money we gave them)
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Probably alot better, given the massive amount of that money spent on guns and weapons. I'd be willing to say it would be better off had we given them nothing. They spent the money on guns, blew up their industries left over from colonialism (it wasn't much but it was something) then got stuck with massive interest payments on money they needed to borrow, to buy guns since their neighbour started shooting at them (with guns bought with money we gave them)
Africa is a continent containing many countries. Most, but not all of those countries rely on foreign aid of some kind. Some African countries that used to be prosperous are now economic and social hell-holes. Zimbabwe and Kenya are prime examples. In 1980 we were shown pictures of starving children in Somalia and we were told horror stories about the number of people who were dying every minute. I have no doubt about the horrors those people were living through. My problem is that things don't seem to be getting any better. After almost thirty years, there doesn't appear to be any end in sight. There are ugly little wars all over Africa and tribal rivalries are still blocking any real progress. All the money that has been poured into Africa, and all the loans that have been forgiven are showing very few positive results. Maybe it's time to think about regime change in a lot of these countries.......we could start with Zimbabwe.
I think this is the main point. I wonder how much of it is true and how much of it is the fact that the media doesn't want to show any positive news. All most of us know about Africa today is what we see on tv or in the newspaper. It tends to give a very slanted view.
It's the same reason my parents were TERRIFIED when I moved to the LA area. All they see on tv is guns, shooting, rape, murder, kidnapping, gangs, etc. While I realize we have problems with crime down here, my neighbourhood is pretty nice and pretty safe. My parents were honestly surprised when they came down here that I could walk alone after dark without being mugged. I wonder if it's similar in Africa. I have friends who do missionary work and they don't paint the same picture. There are bright patches too. Some countries have used aid money to get children into school, some have used it for health care, birth control, aids meds, aids education programs, business loans, etc. I don't see why we have to lump them in with places like the Sudan or the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
Tracy here are a few but not all of the current conflicts in Africa. Of course AIDS is one if the biggest problems:
Conflicts in Africa—Introduction
There have been over 9.5 million refugees and hundreds and thousands of people have been slaughtered in Africa from a number of conflicts and civil wars. If this scale of destruction and fighting was in Europe, then people would be calling it World War III with the entire world rushing to report, provide aid, mediate and otherwise try to diffuse the situation. This article explores why Africa has been largely ignored and what some of the root causes of the problems are. Last updated Sunday, February 27, 2005.
Read article: Conflicts in Africa—Introduction
A Comparison With Kosovo
The international media, NATO leaders and others were very vocal about the plight of the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and insisted on a new humanitarian based model of military intervention. Because the western mainstream media had so much rhetoric about this new humanitarian nature of NATO, it is worth making some comparisons here to see if and how that has been applied to Africa. Last updated Monday, August 20, 2001.
Read article: A Comparison With Kosovo
The Democratic Republic of Congo
The conflict in the DRC (formerly known as Zaire) has involved seven nations. There have been a number of complex reasons, including conflicts over basic resources such as water, access and control over rich minerals and other resources and various political agendas. This has been fueled and supported by various national and international corporations and other regimes which have an interest in the outcome of the conflict. Last updated Friday, October 31, 2003.
Read article: The Democratic Republic of Congo
Nigeria and Oil
The Niger Delta in Nigeria has been the attention of environmentalists, human rights activists and fair trade advocates around the world. The trial and hanging of environmentalist Ken Saro-Wiwa and eight other members of the Ogoni ethnic minority made world-wide attention. So too did the non-violent protests of the Ogoni people. The activities of large oil corporations such as Mobil, Chevron, Shell, Elf, Agip etc have raised many concerns and criticisms. Oil, which could potentially have allowed Nigeria to be one of the wealthiest countries in Africa has instead led it to become one of the poorest. Last updated Saturday, July 03, 2004.
Read article: Nigeria and Oil
Sierra Leone
Sierra Leone has seen serious and grotesque human rights violations since 1991 when the civil war erupted. According to Human Rights Watch, over 50,000 people have been killed to date, with over one million people having been displaced. There have been numerous factors contributing to problems such as the the diamond connection, the gross abuses committed by both rebel and government forces, and the problems of the current peace treaty. Last updated Monday, July 23, 2001.
Read article: Sierra Leone
Conflict between Ethiopia and Eritrea
30 years of war and conflict as Eritrea attempted to gain independence, finally resulted in an April 1993 internationally monitored referendum, where 98.5% of the registered voters voted. 99.8% of the votes were for independence, although the borders were not defined clearly. While the two nations seemed to get on fairly well, relations deteriorated into war a couple of years after Eritrea introduced its own currency in 1997. War again resulted over what seemed to be a minor border dispute in May 1998. Last updated Wednesday, December 20, 2000.
Read article: Conflict between Ethiopia and Eritrea
Rwanda
It seems that the cause of the Rwanda genocide has typically been explained in simplified terms, such as ancient tribal hatreds, omitting many of the deeper and also modern causes, such as international economic policies, power politics and corruption of the elite, etc. which are also common contributing causes of problems elsewhere in the world today. Find out more about some of the deeper causes of genocide in Rwanda. Last updated Wednesday, October 25, 2006.
Read article: Rwanda
AIDS in Africa
One conflict in Africa that has taken a long time to get appropriate media attention, with regards to its severity, is that of the conflict of ordinary African people with HIV and AIDS. It is said to be killing more people than the current conflicts. Last updated Sunday, December 03, 2006.
Conflicts in Africa—Introduction
There have been over 9.5 million refugees and hundreds and thousands of people have been slaughtered in Africa from a number of conflicts and civil wars. If this scale of destruction and fighting was in Europe, then people would be calling it World War III with the entire world rushing to report, provide aid, mediate and otherwise try to diffuse the situation. This article explores why Africa has been largely ignored and what some of the root causes of the problems are. Last updated Sunday, February 27, 2005.
Read article: Conflicts in Africa—Introduction
A Comparison With Kosovo
The international media, NATO leaders and others were very vocal about the plight of the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and insisted on a new humanitarian based model of military intervention. Because the western mainstream media had so much rhetoric about this new humanitarian nature of NATO, it is worth making some comparisons here to see if and how that has been applied to Africa. Last updated Monday, August 20, 2001.
Read article: A Comparison With Kosovo
The Democratic Republic of Congo
The conflict in the DRC (formerly known as Zaire) has involved seven nations. There have been a number of complex reasons, including conflicts over basic resources such as water, access and control over rich minerals and other resources and various political agendas. This has been fueled and supported by various national and international corporations and other regimes which have an interest in the outcome of the conflict. Last updated Friday, October 31, 2003.
Read article: The Democratic Republic of Congo
Nigeria and Oil
The Niger Delta in Nigeria has been the attention of environmentalists, human rights activists and fair trade advocates around the world. The trial and hanging of environmentalist Ken Saro-Wiwa and eight other members of the Ogoni ethnic minority made world-wide attention. So too did the non-violent protests of the Ogoni people. The activities of large oil corporations such as Mobil, Chevron, Shell, Elf, Agip etc have raised many concerns and criticisms. Oil, which could potentially have allowed Nigeria to be one of the wealthiest countries in Africa has instead led it to become one of the poorest. Last updated Saturday, July 03, 2004.
Read article: Nigeria and Oil
Sierra Leone
Sierra Leone has seen serious and grotesque human rights violations since 1991 when the civil war erupted. According to Human Rights Watch, over 50,000 people have been killed to date, with over one million people having been displaced. There have been numerous factors contributing to problems such as the the diamond connection, the gross abuses committed by both rebel and government forces, and the problems of the current peace treaty. Last updated Monday, July 23, 2001.
Read article: Sierra Leone
Conflict between Ethiopia and Eritrea
30 years of war and conflict as Eritrea attempted to gain independence, finally resulted in an April 1993 internationally monitored referendum, where 98.5% of the registered voters voted. 99.8% of the votes were for independence, although the borders were not defined clearly. While the two nations seemed to get on fairly well, relations deteriorated into war a couple of years after Eritrea introduced its own currency in 1997. War again resulted over what seemed to be a minor border dispute in May 1998. Last updated Wednesday, December 20, 2000.
Read article: Conflict between Ethiopia and Eritrea
Rwanda
It seems that the cause of the Rwanda genocide has typically been explained in simplified terms, such as ancient tribal hatreds, omitting many of the deeper and also modern causes, such as international economic policies, power politics and corruption of the elite, etc. which are also common contributing causes of problems elsewhere in the world today. Find out more about some of the deeper causes of genocide in Rwanda. Last updated Wednesday, October 25, 2006.
Read article: Rwanda
AIDS in Africa
One conflict in Africa that has taken a long time to get appropriate media attention, with regards to its severity, is that of the conflict of ordinary African people with HIV and AIDS. It is said to be killing more people than the current conflicts. Last updated Sunday, December 03, 2006.
[FONT=arial,helvetica,MS sans serif] Poverty vs. conflict: understanding Africa's wars [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,MS sans serif][/FONT] [FONT=arial,helvetica,MS sans serif]Sub-Saharan Africa (SSA) stands out from other developing regions by the sheer number of conflicts and the massive impact on lives and livelihoods. In SSA, as the distinction between criminal and political violence becomes ever more blurred, has armed conflict become the major determinant of poverty? If so, what can be done?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,MS sans serif]A report from the Institute of Development Studies argues that war and poverty are in a dynamic and mutually reinforcing relationship. The conventional portrayal of conflict as a deviation from 'normal' life fails to comprehend situations where conflict splutters, re-ignites and is rarely settled by 'peace' agreements. Policy interventions will not promote sustainable peace unless built on subtler analysis of war economies and failing states.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,MS sans serif]No less than 28 SSA states have been at war since 1980. Increasingly, conflicts are regionally connected. It is a moot point whether in the Great Lakes, East and Central Africa there is a series of interlocking 'national' conflicts or a single zone of conflict in which national armies and non-state armed groups cross frontiers at will.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,MS sans serif][/FONT] [FONT=arial,helvetica,MS sans serif]Sub-Saharan Africa (SSA) stands out from other developing regions by the sheer number of conflicts and the massive impact on lives and livelihoods. In SSA, as the distinction between criminal and political violence becomes ever more blurred, has armed conflict become the major determinant of poverty? If so, what can be done?[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,MS sans serif]A report from the Institute of Development Studies argues that war and poverty are in a dynamic and mutually reinforcing relationship. The conventional portrayal of conflict as a deviation from 'normal' life fails to comprehend situations where conflict splutters, re-ignites and is rarely settled by 'peace' agreements. Policy interventions will not promote sustainable peace unless built on subtler analysis of war economies and failing states.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,MS sans serif]No less than 28 SSA states have been at war since 1980. Increasingly, conflicts are regionally connected. It is a moot point whether in the Great Lakes, East and Central Africa there is a series of interlocking 'national' conflicts or a single zone of conflict in which national armies and non-state armed groups cross frontiers at will.[/FONT]
I've read all about the conflicts, just like you have. My point is why treat Tanzania or Mauritius like you would treat the Sudan or Somalia? That doesn't make sense. Some countries are pure hell holes no doubt. Others have started making progress.
Even some of those countries are no longer at war right now. Sierra Leone's conflict is basically over and they have a LOT of war injured. Rwanda is basically at peace as well and has made remarkable progress since the genocide. I think it's more important to help those countries now than ever.
Even some of those countries are no longer at war right now. Sierra Leone's conflict is basically over and they have a LOT of war injured. Rwanda is basically at peace as well and has made remarkable progress since the genocide. I think it's more important to help those countries now than ever.
I'm not saying we shouldn't help them, nor should we cut off aid. My feeling is that maybe we should be doing things a little differently. The first world countries have been pouring aid into Africa for almost thirty years and "starting to make progress" doesn't seem nearly good enough. I think we basically agree on most aspects of this topic. I'm just getting a little impatient and I wonder if there are better places for our money.
I think we do. I agree that the "aid" we used to give was, like you said, just pouring money into bad countries. Often the money would be used to redecorate presidential palaces or to buy weapons (which really only supported the economy of the nations selling them). It lined the pockets of corrupt government officials who oppressed their own people, often quite violently. Then if they were finally overthrown, they got away with their money and left the debt to their country. That is simply unacceptable and things should and ARE being done differently today. We can and do tie aid money to humanitarian and economic conditions. I am completely in favor of that.
I read somewhere that Africa had for years spent more money paying off debts to western countries than they received in aid from western countries. We may have been pouring money into that continent, but we were taking out even more which sort of defeated the purpose. It's no wonder they've made little progress.
It's also amazing how cheaply they've sold their natural resources. You could pay $20 for a rough diamond in Sierra Leone that will cost $1500 in Antwerp. The resources they have are not helping the people. The only people benefiting from them are those in power in the country and the western consumers of their goods.
I agree Tracey, but unless they are willing to cede sovereignty in the way Japan or Germany did we just can't help them.
The best solution I can think of is a complete forgiveness of African debt and a complete embargo on any nation loaning or giving money to Africa.
Let them fix themselves, they are fully capable adults the same as anyone else on the planet and are capable of fixing their own problems if we stop meddling in all aspects.
The best solution I can think of is a complete forgiveness of African debt and a complete embargo on any nation loaning or giving money to Africa.
Let them fix themselves, they are fully capable adults the same as anyone else on the planet and are capable of fixing their own problems if we stop meddling in all aspects.
I don't know if they are though. How do you reason with someone who is willing to shoot little kids if they don't pick up and gun and shoot those they are told to? How do they educate people who live among people who refuse to allow schools or instruction other than war?
How would you stabalize a government without being the brutal dictator that currently causes the constant over throwing of the last corupt dictator?
None of those countries were as poor or undevelopped as some of the African nations you'd have us ignore. None of them were facing AIDS. I don't know if they can be compared fairly.
There are only about 45 Sub-Saharan countries in Africa and most of those have been at war at some point over the last twenty years. Hiv/Aids is rampant in most of them. Droughts and food shortages are the norm rather than the exception. Rather than throwing money, we have to go in and show them.
Actually many of them were as poor or poorer than African countries (see Central Asia), many had their own Pandemics. All of the problems facing Africa these days are the result of the choices made by Africa's populace.
AIDS for instance, sad as it may be, is inevitabley gone as a major pandemic in a few years if people wouldn't keep spreading it. Yes it would be nice to find a cure, but failing that prevention is the most important aspect. Stop screwing around (literally).
You don't want to be poor? Stop shooting each other everytime someone starts to build something. These are not problems unique to Africa, much of the world has had to deal with these problems and have found their own way out.
Before AIDS it was even more serious outbreaks that whiped out larger portions of the population. AIDS is pretty tame in comparison, you can't get AIDS by being coughed on or touching a doorknob someone sneezed on. AIDS is not the first major pandemic to hit Africa, its not even the deadliest, its just the latest one.