Maher Arar still on NO-FLY list in US

[JoeSchmoe]

Thanks, I was unaware of that.

How about the International Court of Justice? The state (Canada in this case) can bring forth a complaint on behalf of one its nationals. It seems to me he should have started with the actual state that tortured him, no? :-|

Why? He's a Canadian citizen that was treated unjustly in his own country.... Canada was a wiling partner in his torture. It seems painfully obvious (to most?) that there is nothing to gain from Syria.

From ICJ:

The Court is competent to entertain a dispute only if the States concerned have accepted its jurisdiction in one or more of the following ways:

• by entering into a special agreement to submit the dispute to the Court;
• by virtue of a jurisdictional clause, i.e., typically, when they are parties to a treaty containing a provision whereby, in the event of a dispute of a given type or disagreement over the interpretation or application of the treaty, one of them may refer the dispute to the Court;
• through the reciprocal effect of declarations made by them under the Statute whereby each has accepted the jurisdiction of the Court as compulsory in the event of a dispute with another State having made a similar declaration. A number of these declarations, which must be deposited with the United Nations Secretary-General, contain reservations excluding certain categories of dispute.

Syria is going to be a part of the ICJ process? Not likely! :roll:

 

[YoungJoonKim]

LOL SYRIA AND U.S. FOLLOWING ICJ CODE..unless they have the upper hand?
I don't THINK SO

 

[Andem]

Canada had nothing to do with his supposed torture. I don't get the point of a nation (Syria) torturing one of their own nationals and then sending them back 10 months later so the victim could spill their beans? The guy got Canadian citizenship after just 3 years of living in Canada and eventually moved to the US for presumably much more money.

He was obviously friends with shady people which led to him being under surveillance by Canadian authorities and there's further no proof that the US has not cleared him of wrong-doing. God, we all know the Canadian system bends over for anybody that isn't a caucasian male.. I don't suspect the US government will necessarily recognise a Canadian ruling, just as Canada shouldn't recognise an Indian pardon of a terrorist.

Listen, if I'm travelling on a German passport and I'm detained in the United States, there's not much I could say to stop the US authorities from sending me off to Canada if I was a citizen, whether or not I was travelling on one passport or another. This is all above the fact that Arar was NOT residing in Canada the year before and Canadian records still showed him as living abroad.

Either way, the point of the matter is the United States is a sovereign nation and they're NOT specifically REQUIRED to adhere to some other countrys opinion.

My other thought is if Arar doesn't want to go back home, why didn't he surrender his citizenship? There are a lot of benefits of having multiple nationalities (I'm one to know), but nobody ever thinks f the possible downsides. After all, Arar moved to Canada in order to get out of being a good citizen and doing his country a service.

I don't put much faith in the Canadian government anymore anyways, a Canadian passport is practically a crackerjack prize.. anybody remember the millions we spent on evacuating Lebanon? Of which the majority returned within 2 weeks? That's what some people think of Canadian citizenship!

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Either way, the point of the matter is the United States is a sovereign nation and they're NOT specifically REQUIRED to adhere to some other countrys opinion.

Yeah...just look at how U.S. make that possible..
Hehe..Iraq .. OH how ironic
[no offense, just testing some oxymoronic ideas)

 

[Karlin]

known Al Qaeda suspects, Abdullah Almalki and Ahmed Al Maati

He was obviously friends with shady people

Those statements - in above posts to theis thread, are highly specious, which is how Arar's problem originated. They are just rumour and guessing, baseless thoughts, but with very real consequences.

"Al Queda suspects" could mean someone who simply contributed money to one of their charities or mosques, completely apart from "terrorist" motives. For eg., terrorist labels have been applied to people who work with the Muslim World League to dispense aid to Afghan refugees in Pakistan. {see:Security certificates"

Similiar problems could occur for 'me and you', which is why it is important to get apologies and admissions of wrongdoing by American officials who turned Arar over to Syria, and Cdn Officials who turned him over to the USA.

Sure, we were not born in a Arab nation, and are therefore not suspects, but then most who were born in Arab nations are not a threat at all. That just adds up to racism. Besides, is it only decent to stand up for other's human rights even if we are not under the same threat. Obviously some here are not so inclined.

 

[Tonington]

And that is precisely why civil rights have to be maintained. Immigrants will predominantly form communities. Play the 5 degrees of separation, hell in most cases it's probably 2-3 tops. That shouldn't be enough to take somebody away for torture. In my opinion, what happened was implicit condoning of torture.

 

[CDNBear]

Canada had nothing to do with his supposed torture. I don't get the point of a nation (Syria) torturing one of their own nationals and then sending them back 10 months later so the victim could spill their beans? The guy got Canadian citizenship after just 3 years of living in Canada and eventually moved to the US for presumably much more money.

He was obviously friends with shady people which led to him being under surveillance by Canadian authorities and there's further no proof that the US has not cleared him of wrong-doing. God, we all know the Canadian system bends over for anybody that isn't a caucasian male.. I don't suspect the US government will necessarily recognise a Canadian ruling, just as Canada shouldn't recognise an Indian pardon of a terrorist.

Listen, if I'm travelling on a German passport and I'm detained in the United States, there's not much I could say to stop the US authorities from sending me off to Canada if I was a citizen, whether or not I was travelling on one passport or another. This is all above the fact that Arar was NOT residing in Canada the year before and Canadian records still showed him as living abroad.

Either way, the point of the matter is the United States is a sovereign nation and they're NOT specifically REQUIRED to adhere to some other countrys opinion.

My other thought is if Arar doesn't want to go back home, why didn't he surrender his citizenship? There are a lot of benefits of having multiple nationalities (I'm one to know), but nobody ever thinks f the possible downsides. After all, Arar moved to Canada in order to get out of being a good citizen and doing his country a service.

I don't put much faith in the Canadian government anymore anyways, a Canadian passport is practically a crackerjack prize.. anybody remember the millions we spent on evacuating Lebanon? Of which the majority returned within 2 weeks? That's what some people think of Canadian citizenship!

Andem, I have not oft agreed with you, but in this case, I could not possibly agree with you more.

 

[dancing-loon]

Gee...I wonder.....I also wonder why anyone would be surprised by the response he got from the united states for their human rights abuses. I guess the u.s. and Syia are 2 peas in a pod.

Thanks for so many good answers and questions.

Gerry, I think you put it quite right... two peas in one pod! Arrar was sent by the US to Syria to be interrogated and tortured. Americans don't dirty their own hands on such, but rather source these jobs out to others. Therefore, Syria acted on order from US authorities, and therefore the US is responsible, because they knew that he would be tortured.
In conclusion I would say that not only Canada was guilty, but also the US! Big bully needs to be held responsible and accountible!!!!! Unfortunately, they are the top guns in the world and do as they please.

 

[thomaska]

Thanks for so many good answers and questions.

Gerry, I think you put it quite right... two peas in one pod! Arrar was sent by the US to Syria to be interrogated and tortured. Americans don't dirty their own hands on such, but rather source these jobs out to others. Therefore, Syria acted on order from US authorities, and therefore the US is responsible, because they knew that he would be tortured.
In conclusion I would say that not only Canada was guilty, but also the US! Big bully needs to be held responsible and accountible!!!!! Unfortunately, they are the top guns in the world and do as they please.

LOL@ you.

Syria following US orders? I see your "newbie" designation applies to more than just your forum status.

Yep, the U S of A and Syria, best of buds...

:roll:

 

[dancing-loon]

LOL@ you.

Syria following US orders? I see your "newbie" designation applies to more than just your forum status.

Yep, the U S of A and Syria, best of buds...

:roll:

Well, thanks, Thomas, for your very constructive and informative contribution. It's easy to see, how you managed to acquire 1133 postings!:lol:

Perhaps you, as a Pro, wouldn't mind, if I ask with a cherry on top, if you could produce some evidence to the contrary? Please, enlighten the little newbie:smile:

 

[dekhqonbacha]

Hi, Walter;

let me ask you, what compensation would you expect from your own country that betrayed you, which caused you to be sent to a country known for its brutal regime and torture practices, having to spend a year or more in a narrow, dark hole to be tortured until you confess to something you never did?

that's ridiculios what's happened some time ago.

every time i watched news it was about him, like if canadian governement had nothing else to do.

 

[dekhqonbacha]

i reallly like this one CDNBear

 

[dancing-loon]

that's ridiculios what's happened some time ago.

every time i watched news it was about him, like if canadian governement had nothing else to do.

It wasn't rediculous at all - it was a pretty serious thing and a good thing,too, because it cleaned up our corrupt RCMP!

 

[missile]

Using the best pesticides, this summer I made my living environment my own personal "NO FLY" zone.:smile: