Life After Death
- Thread starter vinod1975
- Start date
One thing I know for sure, is that we don't know anything at all. That's all I have, sorry, but I want to believe in life after death, and I want it to be proved one day.
lol
Reminds me of a wish 've had for quite a while: to be able to come back as a "ghost" or something invisible and pull tricks on people.
Okay. Wonder if someone has a "Autumnland". I like autumn better than summer.
Okay. Wonder if someone has a "Autumnland". I like autumn better than summer.
I see.
I have no problem with there being no life after death. All things must end or at least change so much as to be unrecognizable. At some point in time the sun will expand and swallow the earth. Then we will all be one with the sun and one another. Then perhaps the sun under go even more change thru the eons. Eventually it will become one with the universe as it contracts back to a singularity, only to explode again in to a new universe. We are all stardust and to the stars we will return.
[edit] History of afterlife beliefs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiki_letter_w.svg
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1500 BC: Egyptian
Arriving at one's reward in afterlife is a demanding ordeal, requiring a sin-free heart and the spells, passwords, and formulas of the Book of the Dead. One's heart is weighed against the feather of truth and justice (the Goddess Maat). If the heart is lighter than the feather then they may pass on, if it is heavier Ammut will devour them.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1200 BC: Zoroastrian
Zoroaster teaches that the dead will be resurrected and purified to live in a perfected material world at the end of time.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 800 BC: Hindu
The Upanishads describe reincarnation, or samsara.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 800 BC: Jewish
Writing that will later be incorporated into the Hebrew Bible names sheol as the afterlife, a gloomy place where the unrighteous are destined to go after death. The Book of Numbers identifies sheol as literally underground (Numbers 16:31-33), in the Biblical account of the destruction of the rebellious Korah and his followers.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 700 BC: Greek
In the Odyssey, Homer refers to the dead as "burnt-out wraiths." An afterlife of eternal bliss exists in Elysium, but it's reserved for Zeus's mortal descdendants.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 400 BC: Greek
In his Myth of Er, Plato describes souls being judged immediately after death and sent either to the heavens for a reward or underground for punishment. After their respective rewards have been enjoyed or suffered, the souls reincarnate.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 200 BC: Jewish
The Book of Enoch describes sheol as divided into four compartments for four types of the dead: the faithful saints who await resurrection in Paradise, the merely virtuous who await their reward, the wicked who await punishment, and the wicked who have already been punished and will not be resurrected on Judgment Day.[8] It should be noted that the Book of Enoch is considered apocryphal by most denominations of Christianity and all denominations of Judaism, and should be accorded little, if any weight.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 100 BC: Jewish
The book of 2 Maccabees gives a clear account of the dead awaiting a future resurrection and judgment, plus prayers and offerings for the dead to remove the burden of sin.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 100 AD: Catholic
Jesus and the New Testament writers of the Bible books mention notions of an afterlife and resurrection that involve ideas like heaven and hell. The author of Luke recounts the story of Lazarus and the rich man, which shows people in Hades awaiting the resurrection either in comfort or torment. The author of the Book of Revelation writes about God and the angels versus Satan and demons in an epic battle at the end of times when all souls are judged. There is mention of ghostly bodies of past prophets, and the transfiguration.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 400 AD: Roman Catholic
Saint Augustine counters Pelagius, arguing that original sin means that unbaptized infants go to hell (albeit with less suffering than adults experience).
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 600 AD: Roman Catholic
Pope Gregory I, Bishop of Rome, articulates the concept that the saved suffer purification after death. This concept would later be called purgatory and accepted as dogma.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 900 AD: Zoroastrian
The Pahlavi text Dadestan-i Denig ("Religious Decisions") describes the particular judgment of the soul three days after death, with each soul sent to heaven, hell, or a neutral place (hamistagan) to await Judgment Day..
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1100 AD: Roman Catholic
The term purgatorium is first used to describe a state of suffering and purification of the saved after death.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1200 AD: Jewish
Maimonides describes the Olam Haba ("World to Come") in spiritual terms, relegating the prophesied physical resurrection to the status of a future miracle, unrelated to the afterlife or the Messianic era.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1200 AD: Norse
The Prose Edda describes Hel as an unpleasant abode for those unworthy of Valhalla, which is reserved for chosen warriors who die in battle.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1300 AD: Jewish
The Zohar describes Gehenna not as a place of punishment for the wicked but as a place of spiritual purification for the souls of almost all mortals.[1]
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1500 AD: Protestant
Martin Luther denounces the doctrine of particular judgment as contrary to the Bible, professing instead the belief that the soul sleeps until Judgment Day.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1800 AD to Present
Many New Age and Science Fiction beliefs become more popular. The variety of beliefs is greatly increased and continues to change, or becomes more eclectic by mixing up beliefs of the past.
[edit] 1832
Revelation to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon concerning the Three Degrees of Glory: Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial. Doctrine and Covenants, Section 76.
[edit] 1918
President Joseph F. Smith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints presents an elaborate vision of the Afterlife. It is revealed as the scene of an intense Missionary effort by righteous spirits to redeem those still in darkness - a permanent, ongoing Harrowing of Hell.
[edit] 1945
C. S. Lewis writes The Great Divorce. In this work of fiction, spirits are continually escaping from Hell to Heaven.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiki_letter_w.svg
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1500 BC: Egyptian
Arriving at one's reward in afterlife is a demanding ordeal, requiring a sin-free heart and the spells, passwords, and formulas of the Book of the Dead. One's heart is weighed against the feather of truth and justice (the Goddess Maat). If the heart is lighter than the feather then they may pass on, if it is heavier Ammut will devour them.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1200 BC: Zoroastrian
Zoroaster teaches that the dead will be resurrected and purified to live in a perfected material world at the end of time.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 800 BC: Hindu
The Upanishads describe reincarnation, or samsara.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 800 BC: Jewish
Writing that will later be incorporated into the Hebrew Bible names sheol as the afterlife, a gloomy place where the unrighteous are destined to go after death. The Book of Numbers identifies sheol as literally underground (Numbers 16:31-33), in the Biblical account of the destruction of the rebellious Korah and his followers.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 700 BC: Greek
In the Odyssey, Homer refers to the dead as "burnt-out wraiths." An afterlife of eternal bliss exists in Elysium, but it's reserved for Zeus's mortal descdendants.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 400 BC: Greek
In his Myth of Er, Plato describes souls being judged immediately after death and sent either to the heavens for a reward or underground for punishment. After their respective rewards have been enjoyed or suffered, the souls reincarnate.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 200 BC: Jewish
The Book of Enoch describes sheol as divided into four compartments for four types of the dead: the faithful saints who await resurrection in Paradise, the merely virtuous who await their reward, the wicked who await punishment, and the wicked who have already been punished and will not be resurrected on Judgment Day.[8] It should be noted that the Book of Enoch is considered apocryphal by most denominations of Christianity and all denominations of Judaism, and should be accorded little, if any weight.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 100 BC: Jewish
The book of 2 Maccabees gives a clear account of the dead awaiting a future resurrection and judgment, plus prayers and offerings for the dead to remove the burden of sin.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 100 AD: Catholic
Jesus and the New Testament writers of the Bible books mention notions of an afterlife and resurrection that involve ideas like heaven and hell. The author of Luke recounts the story of Lazarus and the rich man, which shows people in Hades awaiting the resurrection either in comfort or torment. The author of the Book of Revelation writes about God and the angels versus Satan and demons in an epic battle at the end of times when all souls are judged. There is mention of ghostly bodies of past prophets, and the transfiguration.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 400 AD: Roman Catholic
Saint Augustine counters Pelagius, arguing that original sin means that unbaptized infants go to hell (albeit with less suffering than adults experience).
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 600 AD: Roman Catholic
Pope Gregory I, Bishop of Rome, articulates the concept that the saved suffer purification after death. This concept would later be called purgatory and accepted as dogma.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 900 AD: Zoroastrian
The Pahlavi text Dadestan-i Denig ("Religious Decisions") describes the particular judgment of the soul three days after death, with each soul sent to heaven, hell, or a neutral place (hamistagan) to await Judgment Day..
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1100 AD: Roman Catholic
The term purgatorium is first used to describe a state of suffering and purification of the saved after death.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1200 AD: Jewish
Maimonides describes the Olam Haba ("World to Come") in spiritual terms, relegating the prophesied physical resurrection to the status of a future miracle, unrelated to the afterlife or the Messianic era.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1200 AD: Norse
The Prose Edda describes Hel as an unpleasant abode for those unworthy of Valhalla, which is reserved for chosen warriors who die in battle.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1300 AD: Jewish
The Zohar describes Gehenna not as a place of punishment for the wicked but as a place of spiritual purification for the souls of almost all mortals.[1]
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1500 AD: Protestant
Martin Luther denounces the doctrine of particular judgment as contrary to the Bible, professing instead the belief that the soul sleeps until Judgment Day.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
[edit] ca 1800 AD to Present
Many New Age and Science Fiction beliefs become more popular. The variety of beliefs is greatly increased and continues to change, or becomes more eclectic by mixing up beliefs of the past.
[edit] 1832
Revelation to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon concerning the Three Degrees of Glory: Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial. Doctrine and Covenants, Section 76.
[edit] 1918
President Joseph F. Smith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints presents an elaborate vision of the Afterlife. It is revealed as the scene of an intense Missionary effort by righteous spirits to redeem those still in darkness - a permanent, ongoing Harrowing of Hell.
[edit] 1945
C. S. Lewis writes The Great Divorce. In this work of fiction, spirits are continually escaping from Hell to Heaven.
Religion of peace and love is good all around.
If its right, we are garunteed an eternal peace in Heaven with our Lord and Savior.
If its wrong, we lived our lives on a moral code that made us good persons, and death came sound with no worry to us, and our families get over there grief thinking they are in a better place.
Atheists:
If their right... their right...
If their wrong... lets just say, I don't want to think about that one..
I have a spiritual relationship, and I can't be perfectly certain, but I think there has to be more to our lives. I look at the stars and our world and the people on it, and I think to myself that this amazing universe comes to more.
Others think its all science, and don't require that comfort of "more". And good for them. But from the stats, we know that most of us human beings, have this need, an absolute need, to know there is more. Something like 85%-93% of our world believes in a supreme deity.
Religion: answers the mysteries of our origins, and the mystery of our fate. And I don't think these mysteries of origin and fate can ever be answered by Science, and therefore, there will always be religion, and there will always be a belief of something more.
My insight..
If its right, we are garunteed an eternal peace in Heaven with our Lord and Savior.
If its wrong, we lived our lives on a moral code that made us good persons, and death came sound with no worry to us, and our families get over there grief thinking they are in a better place.
Atheists:
If their right... their right...
If their wrong... lets just say, I don't want to think about that one..
I have a spiritual relationship, and I can't be perfectly certain, but I think there has to be more to our lives. I look at the stars and our world and the people on it, and I think to myself that this amazing universe comes to more.
Others think its all science, and don't require that comfort of "more". And good for them. But from the stats, we know that most of us human beings, have this need, an absolute need, to know there is more. Something like 85%-93% of our world believes in a supreme deity.
Religion: answers the mysteries of our origins, and the mystery of our fate. And I don't think these mysteries of origin and fate can ever be answered by Science, and therefore, there will always be religion, and there will always be a belief of something more.
My insight..
"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
I'm claiming that verse with all my heart and soul. Why? Because the rest of the bible indicates that to me.
I found the pearl of great price, and I sold all that ia am to get it.
Jesus is my reward!
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
I'm claiming that verse with all my heart and soul. Why? Because the rest of the bible indicates that to me.
I found the pearl of great price, and I sold all that ia am to get it.
Jesus is my reward!
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
What if we cease to exist at physical death? Being mortal with no soul and there is no afterlife. We will never be able to think to ourselves again when it all ends. It is the same as never existing in the first place. In my opinion, thinking the preceding in deep thought while alone with one having no hope of the possibility of an afterlife is the scariest thought there is.
∙ Life after death can neither be proved nor disproved. This is because one would have to undergo physical death in order to prove or disprove it (and by its very nature, disproving it would not be possible). This is in contrast to something like astrology where one could undertake a study of people born at the same time and evaluate their personality traits and life outcomes at a later time to see if there is any correlation with time of birth.
There is no actual direct evidence against an afterlife - only arguments refuting the specific examples of evidence for life after death as not being sufficient proof. Although it can easily be argued that not having direct knowledge of an afterlife constitutes evidence against life after death. Life after death cannot be disproven; only the evidence in its favour can be scrutinized and rational non-believers are left to make the conclusion that life after death cannot be proven.
∙ It is hard to imagine any species (ie. mankind) would reach such a high level of consciousness of our own existence if it were all to end with this life. There is no evolutionary advantage or biological need for this. For a mortal life here on earth, the human mind is much more advanced than necessary.
Possibly we have reached such a state of consciousness, because there is a continuum to this life after this one ends? Just being conscious of our existence suggests that there may be an afterlife. Why else would we be aware of our mortality or be concerned with life after death? Possibly we can only fathom we could cease to exist because we never will cease to exist? In fact, awareness of our mortality or immortality and what it means goes beyond the awareness you exist (consciousness). Having a soul can explain consciousness, but if we do not possess souls, then how do we account for consciousness?
If it so happens that ones existence can end at any time and is not everlasting, it makes ones existence pointless in the first place and really, the ultimate form of cruelty.
∙ Why life? There is no scientific reason for the existence of life. The universe doesn't care if there is life in it - it does not benefit from it. Yet life, and especially more advanced life with consciousness like us humans, came about. A 'driving force' in the universe behind it that made it all happen would make sense. Many would call such a driving force, God.
It is difficult for some of us to believe there is life after death because it is all seems too incredible that we have a soul which leaves the body upon physical death and goes on to somewhere else. This is more so the case when many of us are wrapped up in our busy day to day lives with little time for reflection. Then we do not take time out to ponder how the bigger scheme of things might be because it has little bearing on our busy every day life with all its commitments, responsibilities, and distractions. If we were to put ourselves in a very dark room with no sounds or distractions when we aren't tired or sleepy, and engage in deep thought about the subject, then we may have more insight into what may actually be the truth. Of course the alternative, that there is no survival of consciousness, is all too hard to believe for many of us also.
∙ If we came from the 'other side', then should we not have fear of returning to it. So we should not have a fear of death as we could make the assumption that we would likely have some instinct built into us that we don't need to worry about our mortality since we are immortal. However, for the large part, this fear of death exists in most people to varying degrees.
Why are we not aware of where we came from and where we are going when we die? Why do we exist at all? What is the purpose of our existence and our life in this world? If we are reincarnated so that we may improve our souls, then should we not know this? If, as taught by Christianity this is our only life on earth, then why do we not have direct knowledge of this? Why is God not in direct contact with us? Maybe not knowing is a better 'test' for us. Going into this life on earth maybe we know the answers to the preceding questions, but once here this knowledge is 'taken' from us and we only can speculate - we therefore live our lives differently possibly and are not motivated by some selfish reward for a good life lived and the suffering we endure is of greater benefit to us. In other words, having direct knowledge of the afterlife would mean we would be motivated by reward (spiritual improvement) in our actions and would not suffer as much and therefore would not improve as much spiritually.
∙ We probably need to endure a minimal amount of suffering while here on earth or otherwise we would regress spiritually (due to becoming more smug and taking more of a 'blame the victim' attitude when others suffer and therefore we would become less empathetic).
∙It is possible that God is the collective consciousness of the universe (or universes). This might be some type of energy field which is the source of all the knowledge, intelligence, and power that guides the universe (or universes).
∙ If we came from the 'other side', then should we not have fear of returning to it. So we should not have a fear of death as we could make the assumption that we would likely have some instinct built into us that we don't need to worry about our mortality since we are immortal. However, for the large part, this fear of death exists in most people to varying degrees.
Why are we not aware of where we came from and where we are going when we die? Why do we exist at all? What is the purpose of our existence and our life in this world? If we are reincarnated so that we may improve our souls, then should we not know this? If, as taught by Christianity this is our only life on earth, then why do we not have direct knowledge of this? Why is God not in direct contact with us? Maybe not knowing is a better 'test' for us. Going into this life on earth maybe we know the answers to the preceding questions, but once here this knowledge is 'taken' from us and we only can speculate - we therefore live our lives differently possibly and are not motivated by some selfish reward for a good life lived and the suffering we endure is of greater benefit to us. In other words, having direct knowledge of the afterlife would mean we would be motivated by reward (spiritual improvement) in our actions and would not suffer as much and therefore would not improve as much spiritually.
∙ We probably need to endure a minimal amount of suffering while here on earth or otherwise we would regress spiritually (due to becoming more smug and taking more of a 'blame the victim' attitude when others suffer and therefore we would become less empathetic).
∙It is possible that God is the collective consciousness of the universe (or universes). This might be some type of energy field which is the source of all the knowledge, intelligence, and power that guides the universe (or universes).
∙ Many of us automatically make the assumption that if life was created or designed intelligently, then there must be an afterlife. However, we are assuming the Creator or the 'force' responsible for the creation 'cares' for us and has given us souls everlasting and it is possible this may not be the case (although there are many convincing arguments and evidence for an afterlife). The reverse, however far-fetched, could also apply: that there is an afterlife without a Creator or God.
∙ There are 8 unique possibilities as follows:
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Vani/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Vani/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Vani/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg
As can be seen from analyzing the above, anything is possible. Life after death is not necessarily dependent upon a universe or life on earth having a Creator or Designer. Although of course life after death is so much more likely rationally having such.
∙ Life forms may have had to start out very simple and then became increasing complex as time passed because the souls to occupy them would have to advance through the reincarnation cycle. Logically this would explain why life on earth evolved the way it did as shown (be it inconclusively) by the scientific evidence.
∙ There are 8 unique possibilities as follows:
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Vani/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Vani/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Vani/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg
As can be seen from analyzing the above, anything is possible. Life after death is not necessarily dependent upon a universe or life on earth having a Creator or Designer. Although of course life after death is so much more likely rationally having such.
∙ Life forms may have had to start out very simple and then became increasing complex as time passed because the souls to occupy them would have to advance through the reincarnation cycle. Logically this would explain why life on earth evolved the way it did as shown (be it inconclusively) by the scientific evidence.
∙ Maybe time as we understand it does not exist beyond our universe. Beyond it, perhaps one could go backwards or forwards in time? This could possibly mean that matter and life (and God) have always existed and there is not beginning to it all.
∙ It should be noted that previously, the Big Bang was not the prevailing theory for the origin of our universe as it is now. This Big Bang origin made many people who were against a religious explanation to the origins of the universe, uncomfortable as it does add credence to an act of creation as the start of the universe. In fact, every question posed above indirectly infers a Creator.
Recently, physicists have practically come to the conclusion that the universe will continue to expand indefinitely. There will be no contraction and a never ending cycle of big bangs and contractions - our universe is a one time occurrence and this is indirect evidence for a special creation.
What is the origin of electrons, protons, and all quantum matter? Where did this matter come from? How did we end up with these nice building blocks called atoms? Why are there approximately 100 unique atoms (elements) in the universe and not say millions or only one? It all seems to ordered and convenient.
Life could start and new life forms could emerge on their own if atoms and molecules (from one or more or all quantum particles) had some type of inherent intelligence. And the sum of all of the individual intelligences of the atoms and molecules when they combine together in a life form, could be the intelligence of the life form that we observe. However, there is no evidence to support this
Science can't and will never ever be able to answer:
1) Our definite origins and come to being
2) Our fate after death
Thats why religion and a belief of something more, will continue until the end of earth.
1) Our definite origins and come to being
2) Our fate after death
Thats why religion and a belief of something more, will continue until the end of earth.
i've always like this poem by Rumi Jalaluddin:
I died from minerality and became vegetable;
And From vegetativeness I died and became animal.
I died from animality and became man.
Then why fear disappearance through death?
Next time I shall die
Bringing forth wings and feathers like angels;
After that, soaring higher than angels -
What you cannot imagine,
I shall be that.
not that I actually believe it. I just like it
And From vegetativeness I died and became animal.
I died from animality and became man.
Then why fear disappearance through death?
Next time I shall die
Bringing forth wings and feathers like angels;
After that, soaring higher than angels -
What you cannot imagine,
I shall be that.
not that I actually believe it. I just like it
Everything in our universe is made of matter...matter can not be destroyed, it can only change form....nuff said?