Let's not Forget to Expel Israel Too

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Re: RE: Let's not Forget to E

Reverend Blair said:
The US is a rogue nation and should be treated as such. They should be removed from the Security Council, be forced to accept inspectors to monitor their huge stockpiles of WMD, and be forced to pay reparations for their many illegal wars and war crimes. Any member of the Bush administration who sets foot outside of the United States should be arrested and tried in international court.

ABSOLUTELY. !! Can one imagine the temper tantrum the whiney u.s. would throw......should that happen??? Every lier, crook , and spin meister would come out from their dirty cave for that one.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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As long as muderous tyrants oppose the US they will have friends in Canada Mike. This forum is full of those types. Then they will insult you like Mog did.

Classy aren't they?


OFF TOPIC.....and inciteful.../ prejudicial. :protest: :sad3:
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Ocean,

Are you still listening to these two or three half-bred Americans? Leave them alone. The whole world is going to leave them alone. So shouldn't we?

Enough wasting time arguing with trailer trash.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Re: RE: Let's not Forget to Expel Israel Too

moghrabi said:
Ocean,

Are you still listening to these two or three half-bred Americans? Leave them alone. The whole world is going to leave them alone. So shouldn't we?

Enough wasting time arguing with trailer trash.

right ya are. Not worth the "bandwidth" :wink:
 

MMMike

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Mar 21, 2005
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moghrabi said:
Oh Mikky. I did not know you are an American monkey living in Canada. Sorry. I will deal with you as such then.

Go and read some good history books. Then tell me how and by who Israel was created and if you have some time, tell me for what reason it was created.

Since you are in love with a Zionist entity similar to our bastard government next door, count for me how many resolutions were made against Israel and how many were implemented compared to the ones against its neighbours.

Mogarab, please refer to the Terms of Service. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

It seems as though your 'good' history books were written by your friends at Hamas?? How come Arab nationalists only discovered the nation of 'Palestine' after the Jews started coming? What is the true origin of the refugee problem? Keep your eyes closed, and just keep believing Israel is the root of all evil.
 

PoisonPete2

Electoral Member
Apr 9, 2005
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MMMike said:
moghrabi said:
It seems as though your 'good' history books were written by your friends at Hamas?? How come Arab nationalists only discovered the nation of 'Palestine' after the Jews started coming? What is the true origin of the refugee problem? Keep your eyes closed, and just keep believing Israel is the root of all evil.

Answer - millions of Palastinians were displaced on the formation of the Jewish state. Israel was formed to avoid mass refugee influx to North America.
 

MMMike

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Mar 21, 2005
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PoisonPete2 said:
MMMike said:
moghrabi said:
It seems as though your 'good' history books were written by your friends at Hamas?? How come Arab nationalists only discovered the nation of 'Palestine' after the Jews started coming? What is the true origin of the refugee problem? Keep your eyes closed, and just keep believing Israel is the root of all evil.

Answer - millions of Palastinians were displaced on the formation of the Jewish state. Israel was formed to avoid mass refugee influx to North America.

Now its millions of Palestinians displaced?? How many voluntarily left to get out of the way of the Arab armies poised to 'throw the Jews into the sea'?
 

PoisonPete2

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Apr 9, 2005
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MMMike said:
PoisonPete2 said:
MMMike said:
moghrabi said:
Now its millions of Palestinians displaced?? How many voluntarily left to get out of the way of the Arab armies poised to 'throw the Jews into the sea'?

Answer - unfortunately the solution to the Jewish desporia was short sighted and caused the suffering to MILLIONS of Palastinians, creating another semetic desporia, now one of the roots of 'terrorism'.
 

moghrabi

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May 25, 2004
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My friends in Hamas did not write the UN report about the the plight of Pals and the occupations of Zionists in Israel. Do a simple search and you can find the truth.

As for the terms of agreement on this website, I fully abide by it unless I am personally attacked by small-dicked guys like you.

Here is one easy link with simple English for you to follow. I am afraid I ask you to read Britannica and may be lost and think that Israel is in India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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What do any of us understand of Palestine?

I see a lot of people who are rigid on this issue.

Including myself.

Perhaps all of us could understand that there is more than one truth, maybe ?

Perhaps all of us could understand that evil was a sin owned by both sides?

Perhaps all of us could agree that it will take both sides to back off to win an honorable solution ?

Perhaps compromise is a hateful thing.

Maybe compromise means you have to back off a harsh principle?
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Let's not Forget to E

The good history books weren't written by Hamas, MMMikey. I suspect you knew that though. Israel, the way it was established, and, more importantly, the actions of its government in the time since it was established are much of the problem. So is the way the Middle East was divided up after WWI and the history of western (mostly the US and England...France to a lesser extent) imperialism for oil.

The people of the Middle East know their history, MMike. They are aware of what was done to them. They aren't without blame, but to try to paint anybody who argues on behalf of Palestinians or Arabs as the entire problem, then trying to undermine their credibility by tying them to a terrorist group is a tactic that only the hysterical neo-conservative crowd us. We generally expect better from you.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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True enough Reverend Blair, we should all seek balance on the matter of Israel and Palestine, and do any of us see this balance ?

No, neither partisans see any balance.

This board is an example of each side over doing it.

But there is one piece of recent history after WWII that occurred that never gets a response from the partisans who support Palestine and who want to eradicate Israel.

And I need to work this one through so that I know what to think and decide.

From what I understand, there was such a massive migration of illegal immigrants in such nightmare proportions from Europe and Russia that the British were stunned.

These immigrants were Jews.

This tidal wave, this tsunami of people kept coming, and they were Jews.

And so what did the British do?

Well they didn't know what to do. Especially because they had not the resources to stop this tidal wave of Jews coming from Europe and Russia.

This belies the common understanding that a British governmental decree happened first.

What happened first was grass roots demographics.

What happened second was a government not knowing what to do in the context of making amends for the holocaust in Europe.

Discount this sequence all you want, but I'd rather hear a reasoned response than something partisan.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Let's not Forget to E

British talk of establishing a Jewish homeland go back to at least 1919, Jim. The Jews were coming from all over to Britain, true, but they were also coming to Canada and the USA.

The victors of WWII don't like to talk about it, but we all turned away massive numbers of Jewish refugees during WWII. We denied knowing what was happening in Germany, but that story doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all. We had been told by Jews and gentiles alike. We didn't listen because we didn't really like Jews.

We didn't like Palestinians either, but we weren't feeling guilty about them at the end of the war. At the same time the US and Britain very much wanted to establish a countryu they saw as both more western and more indebted to them in the Middle East. The Arabs were starting to talk back and doing silly things like fighting back against the brutal puppet governments that were handing the oil contracts over to US corporations.

The fault lies in the imperialism and the inherent prejudice that imperialism carries with it, Jimmy. If you look at the trouble spots in the world today, that's what they all have in common.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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The complete text of the history of the Isreali/Palestinian conflict



Published by
Jews for Justice in the Middle East





As the periodic bloodshed continues in the Middle East, the search for an equitable solution must come to grips with the root cause of the conflict. The conventional wisdom is that, even if both sides are at fault, the Palestinians are irrational "terrorists" who have no point of view worth listening to. Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes - on both sides - inevitably follow from this original injustice.

This paper outlines the history of Palestine to show how this process occurred and what a moral solution to the region's problems should consist of. If you care about the people of the Middle East, Jewish and Arab, you owe it to yourself to read this account of the other side of the historical record.



Introduction

The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs' inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up to today.

The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence in this booklet will show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists' intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British. The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years)

In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn't matter. The Arabs' opposition to Zionism wasn't based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people.

One further point: being Jewish ourselves, the position we present here is critical of Zionism but is in no way anti-Semitic. We do not believe that the Jews acted worse than any other group might have acted in their situation. The Zionists (who were a distinct minority of the Jewish people until after WWII) had an understandable desire to establish a place where Jews could be masters of their own fate, given the bleak history of Jewish oppression. Especially as the danger to European Jewry crystalized in the late 1930's and after, the actions of the Zionists were propelled by real desperation.

But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic "land without people for a people without land" was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem, as we shall see.

http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html
 

jimmoyer

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#Juan, your post in no way refutes the fact that a massive migration of jews came like a tidal wave out of war torn Europe and Russia to the British controlled land of Palestine.

Most people just simply think the British government and the UN decision came first.

This massive migration came first. It forced their hand.

Britain did the same thing to India. It saw that these 2 groups of people would not live in peace, so out of greater India, it created Pakistan and India and East Pakistan which became Bangladesh much later.

The British, not being able logistically to turn away the massive illegal migration of Jews decided on partitioning the land and separating the two groups.

And after the holocaust of Europe, it would have taken another holocaust to stop this massive migration of people.

Jordan then treated the Palestinian refugees to permanent camps and could have given them sovereignty of the West Bank from 1948 to 1967.

The oil rich Arab nations then did little to finance the Palestinians with infrastructure and jobs and sovereignty during those 19 years, using the rejected Palestinians as pawns in a righteous battle against the migration of Jews and the fiat of British and the UN in the creation of Israel.


And then came the war of hatred potent in the eyesight of the world, muslims vs jews and much more visible than other rejected peoples such as the Armenians, Kurds, Azerbaijans, Turkmen, Chechnyans....


Other than those points your post is essentially correct in all other details, especially concerning the pain caused by both sides, and the fact that Palestinians will never forget being kicked out of their own homes regardless of the historical reasons.
 

PoisonPete2

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Apr 9, 2005
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Canada refused a large number of Jewish immigrants at war's end, as did the U.S. They turned back shiploads of Jews while at the same time allowing in a lot of Nazis (new identities and often as paperless Austrians). Why do you think Canada was so reluctant to procecute Nazi war criminals? Because Canada provided their new identities and jobs. It was much better organized in the U.S. where many of the Nazis settled into the intelligence community and many became Republican party organizers. But as I indicated in another thread 'history is written by the victor'. In the end Britain was the big loser in that war, not Germany.

Also read with interest the article sited by moghrabi. Thought it was odd that it didn't mention the 1973 war. It surely effected the Palastinians. Some of the Israeli acts of 'terrorism' were noted though.

I may seem an ardant arabist or whatever but I have close ties to both camps. 50 years of propaganda in North America has coloured the perspective of our society, to the point that our intelligence services constantly harass our citizens of Arabic descent. Some of my friends quit the service during the Gulf War because they couldn't stomach their assignments.

jimmoyer was very accurate in his assessment of the aid given by Arab nations to the plight of the Palastinians. These poor people have been used as a 'cause celebe' by those nations. Left isolated in huge refugee camps while the arab nationals coveted the U.N. relief supplies. The oil for food scandal has nothing on the terrible rip-off of the palastinians by the Egyptians, Syrians, Saudis, Jordanians, Iraqis. First the Israelis steal their land then the Arabs steal their food and the american media pillory them.