Kyoto Protocol

[Jo Canadian]

RE: Kyoto

Not to mention that David Susuki's career started as a geneticist, But how you begin your career doesnt reflect on how you end your career.

If you read any bio's on him are you just ending in the first paragraph where it mentiones how he started? He's had 30-40 years to develop his scientific career.

 

[Twila]

RE: Kyoto

damn Jo. I was just going to post something similiar with regards to Mr. Suzuki...when I get a message that someone has posted something in this thread.....!

I'll take 30yrs of experience with science...with explaining the sciences behind things before I'd take the word of someone with 10 yrs or financial incentive to keep the statis quo

I remember a certain town on Vancouver Island complaining about how some gov't party wants to shut down the fish farm there. People were complaining about how that would impact their lively hood. I wondered how the destruction of the water is good for their lively hood. But then I remembered certain humans only believe in their present and are incapable of taking actions based on future needs. Not the direct future (theirs) but the future of their Grandkids.

So when people talk about how it's not good to do good things for the environment I ignore it. Whether or not global warming is our fault or simply a cycle the earth is going through....we do need to take action to keep the resources we have and to make sure that we are prepared. It may take money away from some. It may cause hardship for some. It may suck for some. But we aren't going to be leaving this world the way we inherited it. I hope we can leave it better or at least leave measures in place to make it better. At the very least lets leave it inhabitable.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Kyoto

The thing about Suzuki is that he (like all of the subsequent hosts of Quirks and Quarks) understands not only science, but the way that science impacts the world. David Suzuki, Jay Ingram, and now Bob MacDonald have made careers of explaining science to the rest of us.

Suzuki started out as a geneticist, true. Think about that. Geneticists know a lot about biology, they have to. They understand the role that mass extinctions, environmental changes, etc. have on this planet. It is at the very base of their field.

Now through all that Suzuki has learned about other fields in his years as a journalist. He's spent most of his life talking to other scientists. Add that to the knowledge he needs as a geneticist.

If anybody understands the impacts of what we are doing to this planet and the plants and animals that inhabit it, it is David Suzuki.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: Kyoto

Anyone up for a small slideshow??

In pictures: How the world is changing

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Kyoto

That's a good slideshow, Jo. Someplace on the internet, and I couldn't find it again but I saw it before, is one that concentrates on Canada's north. It includes dates on all of the shots. In a lot of them you'd never guess it was the same place except for a detail like a rock or something. Several show buildings that have collapsed as the permafrost melted.

 

[Twila]

RE: Kyoto

Jo. I like your sig. I hope you don't mind if I borrow it and vandalize it. Cause i've already done so....but if you are offended let me know. I can change ........it.

 

[mrmom2]

Re: Kyoto

Shit I don't need a slide show to tell me something evil comes this way.Ive watched the steady decline of snow for the last 15 years in the Rockies and the North Thompson 8O Were losing snowpack at an alarming rate and its not from global cooling :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Kyoto

That's very true Mr.Mom. The problem is much more pronounced up north though.

I think one of the most disturbing thing I've seen is Mt. Kilimanjaro in Africa though...it completely lost its snow for the first time in 12,000 years.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: Kyoto

I think this is going to be a very interesting summer.

IQALUIT – An Environment Canada weather station operator in Resolute Bay says 2005 will be the warmest year ever recorded in the northern hemisphere....

 

[WIAF]

Re: RE: Kyoto

Hmmmmm......According to the Rev, you shouldn't believe anything by anyone not qualilfied in the field in question. Suzuki is a geneticist.

Very strange, Extrafire. You dismiss David Suzuki because he's a geneticist. Fine, I would agree that as a geneticist, he is no expert on climate change. However, your next posts link to John Daly's web site, a man who held no scientific credentials whatsoever.

:roll:

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: Kyoto

Shades of gray dominate science

...Our tendency to frame complex issues as either good or bad is convenient, but it's preventing real debate from taking place. The sooner we stop trying to oversimplify these issues and develop a common language to discuss them, the better off we will all be...

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Kyoto

The black and white views of politicians allow them to shut down...or try to shut to shut down...things that are inconvenient to them. Global warming is very inconvenient to those with ties to the oil industry, so they say that the science is wrong. Since they have access to experts who tell them different and choose to listen to people that they know full well are being paid by the ol industry, it is clear that such politicians are being far less than honest with us.

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: Kyoto

Global Warming is still yet a work in progress, still yet a study of details that scientists still debate over.

There is much agreement, detail quibbling, and broad disputes even in the science world, a world notoriously itself hidebound and prey to the stultifying influences that afflict all institutions.

I find both sides of politics on this matter equally guilty of damning whatever the other side says.

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Kyoto

Global warming is a work in progress, but only because we won't stop polluting. The scientists know that global warmig is real. The politicians on the left realize that something has to done. The politicians on the right are still trying to buy their way out of it.

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: Kyoto

Derry, what you said, is the standard thinking on the subject, but it is such a widely held view with all the facts we've seen to support it that any view to the contrary is considered heresy.

A lot of scientists really do wonder how much pollution affects global warming trends greater than such mighty epochal forces such as geological, the molten core, axis wobble, volcanic spew in the air....

But to even intimate other reasons is absolute heresy.

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Kyoto

They don't doubt global warming theory or that there is an anthropogenic element to the warming though, Jim. Wondering how much, and how it affects natural global warming, is far different than saying that there is no problem.

Global warming deniers have seized onto these scientific discussions as proof that the entire theory is wrong in the same way that creationists attack every discussion in the field of evolution as proof that Darwin was wrong. It is anti-scientific, stupid, and dangerous to allow these people to make policy.

 

[Extrafire]

Re: Kyoto

Rev wrote:

John Daly is a goof, Extrafire. Besides that, he's dead. When he was still alive he was recognized to be charlatan who misinterpreted data and used strawman arguments to mislead people.

Are these your heroes...liars, charlatans, con men, and other assorted ne'er do wells.

Yes, I know he’s dead. Pity, he wasn’t very old. When he was alive he exposed a lot of false claims regarding global warming and his work was always backed up by evidence (ie – Tuvalu). The global warming industry tried to tag him with the label of charlatan but were unable to make it stick.

 

[Extrafire]

Re: Kyoto

Jo Canadian wrote:

EH? I didn't deny that it was warmer in the 30's. What I was saying that changes of warm/cold in the north are GRADUAL. What happened in the 30's was the normal ebb and flow, what's happening now is not normal.

As I said in an earlier post, the warming that happened in the ‘30’s was just as fast as now. The records back it up.

 

[Extrafire]

Re: Kyoto

Twila wrote:

What falsehoods did David Suzuki promote with regards to BC forestry. Extrafire?

Oh,,,,that was a long time ago. It had something to do with logging practices and was the incident that turned me right off on Suzuki. Prior to that I had enjoyed his shows and respected him. When the nature of things became an environmentalist rant I stopped watching it all together. I’ve caught the occasional one recently. Seems to have returned to his original format.

 

[Extrafire]

Re: Kyoto

Jo:

Not to mention that David Susuki's career started as a geneticist, But how you begin your career doesnt reflect on how you end your career.

If you read any bio's on him are you just ending in the first paragraph where it mentiones how he started? He's had 30-40 years to develop his scientific career.

Rev:

The thing about Suzuki is that he (like all of the subsequent hosts of Quirks and Quarks) understands not only science, but the way that science impacts the world. David Suzuki, Jay Ingram, and now Bob MacDonald have made careers of explaining science to the rest of us.

Suzuki started out as a geneticist, true. Think about that. Geneticists know a lot about biology, they have to. They understand the role that mass extinctions, environmental changes, etc. have on this planet. It is at the very base of their field.

Now through all that Suzuki has learned about other fields in his years as a journalist. He's spent most of his life talking to other scientists. Add that to the knowledge he needs as a geneticist.

WIAF:

Extrafire wrote:

Hmmmmm......According to the Rev, you shouldn't believe anything by anyone not qualilfied in the field in question. Suzuki is a geneticist.


Very strange, Extrafire. You dismiss David Suzuki because he's a geneticist. Fine, I would agree that as a geneticist, he is no expert on climate change. However, your next posts link to John Daly's web site, a man who held no scientific credentials whatsoever.

Actually, I didn’t dismiss him because he’s a geneticist. I was just suggesting that the same standards be applied to him that Rev requires for his opponents. He’s the one who frequently disqualifies anyone on the opposing side automatically by their primary field.

Now he’s saying that Suzuki has learned about other fields so he is qualified. Well, then the same standards must be applied to those of the opposing side, such as John Daly, who also learned about other fields. Anything less would be blatant hypocracy.