Just how great could Canada be if only...

[CDNBear]

I think perhaps I need to clarify for the cynical types...

If we had a government that worked together for the benefit of the country. Just like it says in the OP, something many missed as they jumped to judgements...

Quote from the OP...
"If only the divide between the parties could be bridged. Is it so unheard of, to have political parties work for the best interests of the Nation?"

 

[hermanntrude]

I think perhaps I need to clarify for the cynical types...

If we had a government that worked together for the benefit of the country. Just like it says in the OP, something many missed as they jumped to judgements...

Quote from the OP...
"If only the divide between the parties could be bridged. Is it so unheard of, to have political parties work for the best interests of the Nation?"

we all know politicians, and political parties, work for their own interest first, then that of their party, then that of the government, then the country.

 

[m_levesque]

It seems our 'oposition party' opposes just because it is in their name. Even if the would be in agreement and do the same thing if they were in power they still oppose. Duplisitis hypocrites.

that is their job as the Opposition, to oppose government policy. good system, much better then the American one.

 

[eh1eh]

that is their job as the Opposition, to oppose government policy. good system, much better then the American one.

When the opposition is against something then gets in power and are now for the thing they opposed? Why did they oppose it earlier but later deceide it is the thing to do? They have all done it. Smacks of dishonesty at one point or the other. Were they supporting their honest beleif of a point when they were opposing it or later when they changed and supported the very thing they strongly opposed such a short time before. Which time were they being sincere? Neither I would say!
Our system is better than the American <Florida-Gore> but by how much is uncertain.

 

[Toro]

When I was active in youth politics, I tried to organize a "Capitalism v. Socialism, the Epic Struggle Softball Game."

The Knee-Dippers didn't go for it.

 

[BitWhys]

that's because they knew you'd never give up home field advantage.

 

[Toro]

most of the young knee-dippers were killjoys.

i loved going over to the liberal events though! they were fun-loving, like us Tories, only with 10x the women.

 

[L Gilbert]

But teams play other teams in the game, they oppose each other on the field and try to win. In your analogy there would be no game without the opposition. And overall, the game benefits from strong opposition.

I didn't use a game as an analogy, I used a team. A coalition gov't would work toward making Canada better as opposed to a few parties doing nothing but simply opposing each other. The opposite team would be against the good of Canada. Lookit WW2, A lot of countries came up against something they didn't like. In spite of having argued with each other before, they banded togather and fought for a single purpose.
It's like a tug-of-war. Instead of fighting against each other all the time and see sawing back and forth, all the sides would just grab the rope, figure out something useful to do with it, and go do something useful with it.
A fellow digs a hole. Another fella comes and fills it in. Nothing is done. In cooperation, one could dig a hole and make a root cellar or something, the other fella could take the dirt and make a garden with it. Something gets done.
I know the concept of cooperation is tough, but try understanding it anyway.

 

[talloola]

There's a difference between cooperation and everyone being in agreement. You are speaking of people that just disagree; the idea of people that cooperate is more like the idea of team. Not all the members have to agree but they should have the same goal in mind and work towards that goal together, not against each other all the time.

Oh, that would be so "sensible" and "wise" and "constructive", but of course we know "impossible."

 

[MikeyDB]

Canadians should establish the framework organization and platforms for all political parties. Some may suggest that the current process of a party presenting its ‘ideas’, along with a proposed agenda of action to be taken with respect to these ideas….acheives the same thing.
It does not.
It cannot.
Nor has it ever.

Politics is the tool, the mechanism of the people whereby the people’s interests are served. Politics in Canada (and I’ll risk saying America) have become mechanism to serve particular and specific special interests embedded within the construct of Canadian and American politics. Popular opinion as reflected by the outcomes produced by the cyclic compromise Canadians seem prepared to acept as their exercise of democracy, voting…has made a few individuals much wealthier over the past number of decades (politicians from both of Canada’s “principle” political parties) while the issues that keep cropping up remain the same.

In part his occurs because of the absence of effective and efficient long term planning within the chaos of Canadian politics. Long term planning is only important to the people of Canada and the world, while a political process proscribes attention to the immediate. In the case of politicians and parties, the only way to grab hold of the gravy train is to force elections.

“Corruption” within public office is a sure-fire way to yank the string on Canadians who keep paying out more and more while receiving less and less. Our attention is focused less on what the “loyal opposition” is doing to perform the function of checks and balances democracy requires while the party and the people in power continue to drop the ball on issues of critical importance to Canada and the world.

Canada fails to keep pace with the rest of the planet when it comes to acting to address the elephant of global warming that’s quietly stepping out of the closet…

While millions are spent we are told on improving Canadian healthcare, wait-lines increase, nearly a million dollars is stolen by doctors double billing in one province alone and our preparedness to answer the potential mayhem of terrorism is practically non-existant.

We have allowed our complacency with easy money and flow of goods across the border between America and Canada to usurp our better judgment.

We divested ourselves as a nation of the fundamental responsibility we have to defend our own nation. We’ve underpaid and overtaxed our military and asked them to get by on equipment that’s outdated and inadequate, we’ve become reliant on the largesse of our friends to the south when it comes to protecting our rights and our freedom. And where do you think American money and manpower will be channeled as the anarchy of terrorism and domestic instability grows? To Canada or to American cities and targets identified by the military industrial complex as critical to American interests?

And Americans are absolutely right to make that choice.

It’s not America’s fault we’re in trouble it’s our own.

Canadian commitment to support a war on terrorism that has evolved out of the failed policies of the American administration should be one critical plank in any Canadians viewfinder. The argument that we are there and thus have an interest in supporting our people is entirely valid, but the goal has to be getting Canada out of the war in Afghanistan.

The American people are learning how expensive the misjudgments and ineptitude of its administration of the past twenty years has been and Canada should be prepared to learn from those mistakes.

It strikes me as odd somehow that people vigorously supporting the effort in Afghanistan don’t appreciate the web of deceit and the serving of a very select cadre of special interests that this action feeds. Many Americans justly identify the lengthy commitment the United States made in Korea and the “police action” that has fallen to America for decades. How could anyone believe that the situation in Afghanistan.. and Iraq for that matter won’t consume far more the longer it goes on and may well result in a much larger “police action” with no exit plan to be seen…

Shaping something out of wood or clay, creating something takes work. It takes work to build and establish a political system that serves the people and it takes work to take it apart and fix it when it gets broken…

It’s struck me as just too bad that Canadians aren’t prepared to do something and content to wait until its too late….

Our global climate is changing critically. We have been satisfied to listen to the lies and misdirection of politicians appeasing industrialists while placating our concerns. Liberals, Conservatives and New Democrats have failed for years and our complacency will become very expensive over the next half dozen decades.

We don’t need a new government in Canada before we understand why our systems of government are failing us.

Party politics has to be right at the top of that list.

 

[L Gilbert]

Yeah. That's pretty a good analysis, IMO, Mike.
(Um , is this where I get to plug the Swiss system of gov't?)

 

[CDNBear]

we all know politicians, and political parties, work for their own interest first, then that of their party, then that of the government, then the country.

Hence the OP herm!!!

Canadians should establish the framework organization and platforms for all political parties. Some may suggest that the current process of a party presenting its ‘ideas’, along with a proposed agenda of action to be taken with respect to these ideas….acheives the same thing.
It does not.
It cannot.
Nor has it ever.

Politics is the tool, the mechanism of the people whereby the people’s interests are served. Politics in Canada (and I’ll risk saying America) have become mechanism to serve particular and specific special interests embedded within the construct of Canadian and American politics. Popular opinion as reflected by the outcomes produced by the cyclic compromise Canadians seem prepared to acept as their exercise of democracy, voting…has made a few individuals much wealthier over the past number of decades (politicians from both of Canada’s “principle” political parties) while the issues that keep cropping up remain the same.

In part his occurs because of the absence of effective and efficient long term planning within the chaos of Canadian politics. Long term planning is only important to the people of Canada and the world, while a political process proscribes attention to the immediate. In the case of politicians and parties, the only way to grab hold of the gravy train is to force elections.

“Corruption” within public office is a sure-fire way to yank the string on Canadians who keep paying out more and more while receiving less and less. Our attention is focused less on what the “loyal opposition” is doing to perform the function of checks and balances democracy requires while the party and the people in power continue to drop the ball on issues of critical importance to Canada and the world.

Canada fails to keep pace with the rest of the planet when it comes to acting to address the elephant of global warming that’s quietly stepping out of the closet…

While millions are spent we are told on improving Canadian healthcare, wait-lines increase, nearly a million dollars is stolen by doctors double billing in one province alone and our preparedness to answer the potential mayhem of terrorism is practically non-existant.

We have allowed our complacency with easy money and flow of goods across the border between America and Canada to usurp our better judgment.

We divested ourselves as a nation of the fundamental responsibility we have to defend our own nation. We’ve underpaid and overtaxed our military and asked them to get by on equipment that’s outdated and inadequate, we’ve become reliant on the largesse of our friends to the south when it comes to protecting our rights and our freedom. And where do you think American money and manpower will be channeled as the anarchy of terrorism and domestic instability grows? To Canada or to American cities and targets identified by the military industrial complex as critical to American interests?

And Americans are absolutely right to make that choice.

It’s not America’s fault we’re in trouble it’s our own.

Canadian commitment to support a war on terrorism that has evolved out of the failed policies of the American administration should be one critical plank in any Canadians viewfinder. The argument that we are there and thus have an interest in supporting our people is entirely valid, but the goal has to be getting Canada out of the war in Afghanistan.

The American people are learning how expensive the misjudgments and ineptitude of its administration of the past twenty years has been and Canada should be prepared to learn from those mistakes.

It strikes me as odd somehow that people vigorously supporting the effort in Afghanistan don’t appreciate the web of deceit and the serving of a very select cadre of special interests that this action feeds. Many Americans justly identify the lengthy commitment the United States made in Korea and the “police action” that has fallen to America for decades. How could anyone believe that the situation in Afghanistan.. and Iraq for that matter won’t consume far more the longer it goes on and may well result in a much larger “police action” with no exit plan to be seen…

Shaping something out of wood or clay, creating something takes work. It takes work to build and establish a political system that serves the people and it takes work to take it apart and fix it when it gets broken…

It’s struck me as just too bad that Canadians aren’t prepared to do something and content to wait until its too late….

Our global climate is changing critically. We have been satisfied to listen to the lies and misdirection of politicians appeasing industrialists while placating our concerns. Liberals, Conservatives and New Democrats have failed for years and our complacency will become very expensive over the next half dozen decades.

We don’t need a new government in Canada before we understand why our systems of government are failing us.

Party politics has to be right at the top of that list.

Mikey, when you're not questioning my ethics or my allegences, your words are energizingly intellectual and wise. I bow to the wise elder, you are.

Yeah. That's pretty a good analysis, IMO, Mike.
(Um , is this where I get to plug the Swiss system of gov't?)

Why do you need to plus the Swiss system, is it leaking???

JK, I started reading about it after the first time you posted a comment to the effect. It has its advantages, but my jury's still out, lemme finish reading on it, then I'll let ya know.

 

[Nuggler]

Tired of political partisanship are you?Tired of the squabbling in the chamber are you. Want your partys to work together do you? Well imperialism or monarchic or totalitarian dictatorships are what you want eh? Those are smooth operations no bickering at all.
For all it's circus like apperance the fighting and bickering is what makes it work, what the phuck good would an opposition party be if it did not object vociferously, that's it's job. That is the test that the loyal opposition is duty bound to conduct, it is supposed to pick apart the governments policy.
Or wait we could have the American system where both sides sleep with the same lobbyists and cooperate on virtually every bill that feeds the rich and the war machine.:laughing7::wave:

:thumbup::thumbup:What he said. Unfortunately we seem to be racing down the slippery slope. Governed by two or three day media interest, sound bytes, photo-ops and bull$****. Cheerleaders instead of the skeptics we should be.

:grommit:

 

[CDNBear]

:thumbup::thumbup:What he said. Unfortunately we seem to be racing down the slippery slope. Governed by two or three day media interest, sound bytes, photo-ops and bull$****. Cheerleaders instead of the skeptics we should be.

:grommit:

Well seeing as darkbeav thinks he's a pschyc and knows what I want, I wouldn't latch my wagon to his derailment quite yet.

Skeptical, critical, unbeleiving, these are a few words I would to describe myself, with regards to the Government of the day.

The jist of my OP and the jist of the question, to boot, was...

Working together from different points of view, separate parties that work for the betterment of the Nation, not the political asperations of the individual party's / politicians.

I'm not judging and this question is sans sarcasm, are you that jaded or far to one side of the spectrum, that you do not notice the simularities between the political party?

They are not that far apart in their National agendas, thus there is the very realistic likelihood, that the country would prosper under such a system, No?

The three parties would remain separate, and we would need three to avoid the mire that is the US system. This would or should rather, provide checks and balances as well as remove unnecessary obsticles placed in the way of progress, for the sake or partisan politicing.

 

[Zzarchov]

I think the surest sign that our government is not fullfilling its intended role nor its election promises is that we have a conservative PM and a Left Wing Majority.

In other countries, the left wing parties would form a coalition and co-operate to put forth policies which are jointly shared by all their constituents.

Here it isn't about putting forth policies. No one actually believes their platform, they just form their own little "teams" who's primary goal is to be re-elected and take as much PR as possible.

And on this I really do have to start blaming corporate media. The whole concept of a press badge was that the press was supposed to be free from political concerns to slant the news in the way state media couldn't. The problem being , corporations got involved in politics. I think Ideally we've come to the point that the media needs to be run as a charity organization to get people no to cram 6 tonnes of marketing, bias and other forms of propaganda down our throats.

How can you hope to have any form of reasonable political discourse when all policies must be explained in a 30 second soundbyte and a catchy phrase of five words or less?


How to get good governance.

1.) Force everyone to show up at their polling station. You don't have to vote, because if you don't support any candidate you shouldn't have to. But not wanting to put down the Cheetos and go to the polling station is not a good reason not to vote and is a big slap and the face to everyone who ever fought for democracy.

2.) Ban donations of anything but volunteer hours to a politcal campaign. If you want votes, go around your neighbourhood and actually talk to people and explain your views.

3.) Create the concept of "Registered Campaign Promise", anything a candidate registers as a campaign promise they can't prove they attempted to do constitutes fraud with the a jail term hung to it.

Harsh? Then don't make promises you can't keep. Don't promise the to lower taxes if you intend to raise them.

 

[Nuggler]

no title, I'm a democrat.

I know that Bear, and am not dissing your position. It would be great if everyone worked together for the greater good. (and I ain't no commie)

Given the sleaze-ball-theft-prone-idiots we have/had at the helm (although must admit the Harperites ain't got caught yet) it's a nice dream, but a dream none the less.

IF the opposition actually worked towards any MEANINGFUL solution to ANY SERIOUS problem, instead of chucking BS during question period, wouldn't it be great?

Ah well...........


PS, I think DBeaver is pretty much a good skeptic.

:grommit: