Jack Layton says ....

[Graciously Yours]

ITN::

It is easy to understand. Politicians work on deception and fear. An attack, like pearl harbour, was a major part of Cheney and Rumsfield's plan which is better documented than one grainy tape which contridicts what OBL originally stated. But hey, if you like logic, please explain how a few men with carpet knifes managed to subdue the people into accepting their deaths. Not to mention how the WTC 7 fell without a single plane hitting it, or, how no steel structure building had ever been felled by fire, or how they "emploded", or how there was no photographs of the plane hitting the pentagon, until there were, which clearly doesn't go with the official story,, I could go on but I think you get the point(Do I go into the NSA wiretapping, the gitmo farce, the UN and amnesty internation reports of torture from secret prisons, or the many international laws this admin has broken). I guess what I am asking you is at what time are there simply too many coincidences for it to be comfortable?

If another "terrorist" attack comes, look for it to be blamed on Iran. Problem, reaction, solution. Remember that pattern and life will become a lot clearer. And much much more frieghtening - which is why most people shoose just to beleive what they are told.

 

[cyberclark]

II'm not great at international politics but I will give this one the old college try! We are going into a place to change their way of living. They have a culture dating back at least 2000 years. Culture is different than civilization.
In civilization you start out with one person, then two people, then a family onward to a tribe then a nation. In this model Canada is some 10 nations! The afghans have not moved past the family element. What are we going to teach them and, how long is it going to take?

I am very sure we are not going to teach them anything they do not want to learn which brings me to the Canadian Forces.

Our people seem to be well received by a large segment of the world population. Because of our own mixed heritage I think we may well be better equipped than most to offer up a service to these people.

This brings us to the point to Service or an armed intrusion.

I prefer to think it is a service facing an armed tribal like resistance.

I am very glad my kids don't have to go over there!

 

[aeon]

And from the same link:

"In November 2001, U.S. forces recovered a videotape from a destroyed house in Jalalabad, Afghanistan which showed Osama bin Laden talking to Khaled al-Harbi. [7] In the tape, bin Laden admits to planning the attacks. The factuality of the tape is questioned in the Muslim world: "But the BBC's Middle East correspondent, Frank Gardner, says that at street level in the Arab world, many believe the tape is a fake, a PR gimmick dreamed up by the US administration." [8]. The tape was broadcast on various news networks in December 2001." /quote]


The thing is with this tape, is according to the fbi web site, oussama bin laden is left handed, but coincidently in this video, oussama is right handed, and not to mention the video is all distorted and very hard to hear what is being said.

I saw this broadcast and believe it to be credible. Also from the same link:

Shortly before the US presidential election in 2004 in a taped statement, bin Laden publicly acknowledged al-Qaida's involvement in the attacks on the U.S, and admitted his direct link to the attacks. He said that the attacks were carried out because "we are a free people who do not accept injustice, and we want to regain the freedom of our nation."

Why suddenly oussama bin laden would acknowledge the involvement?? isnt because he is more popular in the muslim world than micheal jakson ever wanted to be?? isnt because the recruitment of muslim extremist became easier because of that status?? does it make his war against the infidel a plus??i really don t know, but one fact we know , he firstly denied it, and then said he is involved.

But one thing we know for sure, everytime alquada strikes around the world , it is all unorganised and very poor planed, except on september 11 2001, one of the pilot was even able to fly for 45 min, withouth being intercept, when already 2 plane had hit the twin tower, he was able to find the pentagone from 10 000 feet in the air(probably allah was telling him where was the pentagone and washington), did a 180degree turn, and slam into the pentagone.Just this fact make absotly no sense at all.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: Jack Layton says ....

ITN::

It is easy to understand. Politicians work on deception and fear. An attack, like pearl harbour, was a major part of Cheney and Rumsfield's plan which is better documented than one grainy tape which contridicts what OBL originally stated. But hey, if you like logic, please explain how a few men with carpet knifes managed to subdue the people into accepting their deaths. Not to mention how the WTC 7 fell without a single plane hitting it, or, how no steel structure building had ever been felled by fire, or how they "emploded", or how there was no photographs of the plane hitting the pentagon, until there were, which clearly doesn't go with the official story,, I could go on but I think you get the point(Do I go into the NSA wiretapping, the gitmo farce, the UN and amnesty internation reports of torture from secret prisons, or the many international laws this admin has broken). I guess what I am asking you is at what time are there simply too many coincidences for it to be comfortable?

If another "terrorist" attack comes, look for it to be blamed on Iran. Problem, reaction, solution. Remember that pattern and life will become a lot clearer. And much much more frieghtening - which is why most people shoose just to beleive what they are told.

This post is so well said, no one could have said better, thankx and congrats.

 

[aeon]

aeon

You are one of those people that if I knew in person could very well drive me to drink with your logic.

You first compare Bush with the likes of Hitler and Stalin, and then you believe Osama Bin Laden because he said he had nothing to do with the attacks on September 11th.

Reason does not appear to be your forte :roll:

I have a question for you, why according to most intelligence in the world saudi arabia is the root of terrorism, and we hear nothing from the bush administration on them??

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Jack Layton says ....

It is easy to understand. Politicians work on deception and fear. An attack, like pearl harbour, was a major part of Cheney and Rumsfield's plan which is better documented than one grainy tape which contridicts what OBL originally stated.

Provide your documentation, I'm assuming you will refer me to the PNAC site, please cite the paragraph where you have determined this to be the case.

But hey, if you like logic, please explain how a few men with carpet knifes managed to subdue the people into accepting their deaths.

No clue, I don't have the capability to think like a murderer. Since you are implying deception, please explain since the government could have made up any story it wants, why would it pick something like box cutters as the reason for hijacking as opposed to guns. Nobody could dispute this, like nobody can dispute the box cutters. Explain please.

Not to mention how the WTC 7 fell without a single plane hitting it, or, how no steel structure building had ever been felled by fire, or how they "emploded", or how there was no photographs of the plane hitting the pentagon, until there were, which clearly doesn't go with the official story,, I could go on but I think you get the point

Of course you can go on, that is one of the fundamental elements of a conspiracy theory, you have the answers to all of these questions you asked but refuse to believe them, so anyone can ask an abundance of questions without ever being able to answer them, why do you think conspracy theories never get answered?

(Do I go into the NSA wiretapping, the gitmo farce, the UN and amnesty internation reports of torture from secret prisons, or the many international laws this admin has broken). I guess what I am asking you is at what time are there simply too many coincidences for it to be comfortable?

The time when we became a trasnparent society that we are able to discern politics from conspiracy theories.

If another "terrorist" attack comes, look for it to be blamed on Iran. Problem, reaction, solution. Remember that pattern and life will become a lot clearer. And much much more frieghtening - which is why most people shoose just to beleive what they are told.

Never assume people believe what they are told, you are indirectly placing yourself in some "illuminated" position to see clearly while others are just plain sheep.

 

[I think not]

I have a question for you, why according to most intelligence in the world saudi arabia is the root of terrorism, and we hear nothing from the bush administration on them??

We don't? :roll:

 

[aeon]

I have a question for you, why according to most intelligence in the world saudi arabia is the root of terrorism, and we hear nothing from the bush administration on them??

We don't? :roll:

Nope , we hear a lot about syrie, iran, but none of our leaders from canada, usa, talked about saudi arabia.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: Jack Layton says ....

Provide your documentation, I'm assuming you will refer me to the PNAC site, please cite the paragraph where you have determined this to be the case.

.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf


page 63.

 

[Colpy]

I have a question for you, why according to most intelligence in the world saudi arabia is the root of terrorism, and we hear nothing from the bush administration on them??

We don't? :roll:

Nope , we hear a lot about syrie, iran, but none of our leaders from canada, usa, talked about saudi arabia.

So, what you are saying is the Bush administration should confront the Saudi royal family, and insist they immediately cease their support for radical Islamists. I think they have done this.

Should they threaten the Saudis for insifficient reaction? Should they invade?

What do you want.

 

[aeon]

So, what you are saying is the Bush administration should confront the Saudi royal family, and insist they immediately cease their support for radical Islamists. I think they have done this.

Should they threaten the Saudis for insifficient reaction? Should they invade?

What do you want.

Saudi royal family never stop their support for radical islamist,and even to the palestinians extremist, if usa would have had saudi arabia in their target, i would have never though there was a conspiracy behind9-11, but the fact they act like saudi arabia is a good guy, just doesnt make sense.This is where it is safe to say, that the war on terror, is a complete joke.

 

[I think not]

Nope , we hear a lot about syrie, iran, but none of our leaders from canada, usa, talked about saudi arabia.

There is no evidence that Saudi Arabian government sponsors terrorism, only that many terrorists are from Saudi Arabia, not so with Syria and Iran.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf page 63.

I read nothing there that suggests what you say, try again.

 

[Graciously Yours]

ITN,

There is very little I can do to prove to you something that is, if merely seeing it play out in front of you isn't enough to wake up. The fact is that they are still talking about it. They knew, years ago, about all of this, and it is all online. I am not going to do your research for you. Knowledge may be free, but it ain't going to be delivered for you.

You don't think like a murderer? Come on, everyone does, we are animals it is in our very nature to kill to survive - just as it is in our very nature to fight for survival. All those people, couldn't have been people to just flacidly accept death - or maybe they were all killed, maybe a few Muslims, with box cutters and a severe case of Bruce Le-itis just trounced all those people - 20 to 1 odds is no problem for these people huh? To beleive the official story, is to beleive that mass amounts of people would calmly accept death, which has never been the case in history. But then neither has a metal structure been felled before in history, and the only time in history that Norad was on down time, was the exact time that the planes hit, and lets not forget WTC 7 being felled without anything happening to it (Say wasn't that were the FBI and CIA offices were?).
These coinsedenses are really piling up. September the 11th, should be called the day of history breaking events.

Let me put this in a way for everyone to understand. Many people will here these accounts and many others and pass them off as a conspiracy. However, consider the example of neighbors...

You(The hypothetical you) and your neighbour are having an arguement. He has requested you take down your garage as it stops him from scene that it is blocking(Be it a pond, tree's, park, etc). You simply say you are sorry that he can no longer see such things, but it is your right to build the garage, and it complied with all the codes. He storms off in a huff, and you leave for work.

When you return, the garage is not there. You approach your neighbour and he says that a strong wind came and just tore it to shreds. You ask where the remains are and he says he has shipped them to china to be disposed of. You later check the weather reports and find no mention of strong winds, you search for other sheds that might have fell victum to killer winds and find it has never happened before, short of the three little pig variety.

So what happened? Is it a conspiracy theory, or do you just have to see who got what they wanted, combined with the illogical explaination, combined with the lack of hard evidense(Because he took it away) mixed with some comman sense to know?

See it doesn't have to be a consiracy theory, it just has to follow the rules of logic - which the offical story clearly doesn't. However, think what ye will, and be at peace knowing that everything is going to be all right. Even when it isn't.


Cheers

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Jack Layton says ....

There is very little I can do to prove to you something that is, if merely seeing it play out in front of you isn't enough to wake up. The fact is that they are still talking about it. They knew, years ago, about all of this, and it is all online. I am not going to do your research for you. Knowledge may be free, but it ain't going to be delivered for you.

Right, the internet has become the new "medium of truth", everyone with ten bucks and an imagination can create a website that "reveals" otherwise hidden agendas. Evidence has been presented and nothing that I can do will change your beliefs, so long as we agree that's your opinion and not fact, then we are in agreement.

You don't think like a murderer? Come on, everyone does, we are animals it is in our very nature to kill to survive - just as it is in our very nature to fight for survival.

No, our nature is self-preservation when threatened, I have no idea how to go about murdering anyone with box cutters. I would presume those that have ceased to be human know better than me.

All those people, couldn't have been people to just flacidly accept death - or maybe they were all killed, maybe a few Muslims, with box cutters and a severe case of Bruce Le-itis just trounced all those people - 20 to 1 odds is no problem for these people huh? To beleive the official story, is to beleive that mass amounts of people would calmly accept death, which has never been the case in history.

So why didn't they alter the official story and say they had guns instead of box cutters? Why are you dismissing the cell phone calls from stewardesses and passengers aboard the planes? Are they part of the grand scheme of disception at the expense of their deaths?

But then neither has a metal structure been felled before in history

And neither has been a design similar to that of the World Trade Center structure, so since there is no precedence, I suppose the towers really didn't exist.

and the only time in history that Norad was on down time, was the exact time that the planes hit, and lets not forget WTC 7 being felled without anything happening to it (Say wasn't that were the FBI and CIA offices were?).

NORAD never had a down time, you're not keeping up with the latest twists of this conspiracy theory. You mean nothing happened to WTC 7 as in 1 million tons of debris falling at its base?

These coinsedenses are really piling up. September the 11th, should be called the day of history breaking events.

It has been called that, although not the way you mean it.

Let me put this in a way for everyone to understand. Many people will here these accounts and many others and pass them off as a conspiracy. However, consider the example of neighbors...

You(The hypothetical you) and your neighbour are having an arguement. He has requested you take down your garage as it stops him from scene that it is blocking(Be it a pond, tree's, park, etc). You simply say you are sorry that he can no longer see such things, but it is your right to build the garage, and it complied with all the codes. He storms off in a huff, and you leave for work.

When you return, the garage is not there. You approach your neighbour and he says that a strong wind came and just tore it to shreds. You ask where the remains are and he says he has shipped them to china to be disposed of. You later check the weather reports and find no mention of strong winds, you search for other sheds that might have fell victum to killer winds and find it has never happened before, short of the three little pig variety.

So what happened? Is it a conspiracy theory, or do you just have to see who got what they wanted, combined with the illogical explaination, combined with the lack of hard evidense(Because he took it away) mixed with some comman sense to know?

See it doesn't have to be a consiracy theory, it just has to follow the rules of logic - which the offical story clearly doesn't. However, think what ye will, and be at peace knowing that everything is going to be all right. Even when it isn't.


Cheers

See what I don't understand about your little analaogy is that somehow the debris from the WTC was whisked away never to be seen again from an independent organization. The foremost authority hired by the government to do the analysis was the American Society of Civil Engineers in collaboration with the National Institute of Standards and Technology.

So what you're basically saying, that outside of the US government, which would need to include thousands of officials and employees, thousands of law enforcement employees, thousands of people in the immediate area, all saw the towers "bombed" and all of these people have been hushed by some miraculous means and you insist that this is more likely than a $10 website?

Sorry Dorothy, but things like that don't happen in Kansas.

 

[TenPenny]

Re: RE: Jack Layton says ....

Knowledge may be free, but it ain't going to be delivered for you.

And you obviously haven't taken advantage of knowledge being free, either.

You keep claiming that a steel building has never been felled by fire before, or words to that effect. You obviously know nothing about engineering or materials science or fire, if you keep thinking this means anything. Do you know what temperature jet fuel burns at? Do you know the yield point for structural steel? Do you know how long it would take for the steel to lose its strength? Do you know what happens to a steel structure when subjected to a massive shock load?

No, because some internet based conspiracy site doesn't spoon feed that to you.

 

[Graciously Yours]

Well, I didn't want to get into this too deep, so lets keep this short. There are a few reasons that we disagree on this issue. The fact is that Jet fuel burns in around the 1600 degree f. The steel used for the WTC towers was saftey inspected to withstand up to 3000 degree's F. Of course, they were also designed to withstand the force of a plane flying into them as well - but many have moved past this. The point is not what temperatures each can have, although why the temperatures at the rubble were nearly 500 degrees hotter than the maximum temperature for burning jet fuel? Either way, think what you like, but answer me this - what happened to WTC7? No plane hit it, and yet it fell too, just like the others, and that too was a steel framed building...

I am sorry my friends, but the simple truth is there are far too many things that would have to be just so, for the planes to fall in the WTC1 and 2, and there is no reason why WTC7 would have fell. But, if you feel better thinking that this was done by a few people with box cutters, have a party. I just chose to be a bit more sceptical when those that put for the story, are the same people that refuse to release information on the results of their inquiry, and then use that attack to further a fundimental goal of theirs.....

However, a couple of links in relation to the fuel thing...
www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RYA411A.html

and

http://911research.wtc7.net

www.lasvegastribune.com/20050729/headline3.html


BTW, you know the empire state building was also hit by a plane, blew a hole through the damn thing too - but it stayed up. The strucural intigrity of the building remained...

That is the last for me. Sorry if this isn't what you guys think, but the truth - as Mulder says - is out there. Just start to ask questions. Questioning is the only real freedom we actually have.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: Jack Layton says ....

NORAD never had a down time, you're not keeping up with the latest twists of this conspiracy theory. You mean nothing happened to WTC 7 as in 1 million tons of debris falling at its base?

.

There is building right next to the wtc twin tower,which has never fell, wtc 7 was 2 block away from those building, and still fell,what is the difference beetween those buildings?? those who didnt fell arent the propriety of larry sylverstein.


Now here is a video of larry sylverstein from a documentary pro-american, not michael moore, which he states they demolish building 7 with explosives.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/pullIt3.wmv




strange as it is, it doesnt go with the official story, damn.......

 

[TenPenny]

Re: RE: Jack Layton says ....

Well, I didn't want to get into this too deep, so lets keep this short. There are a few reasons that we disagree on this issue. The fact is that Jet fuel burns in around the 1600 degree f. The steel used for the WTC towers was saftey inspected to withstand up to 3000 degree's F. Of course, they were also designed to withstand the force of a plane flying into them as well - but many have moved past this. The point is not what temperatures each can have, although why the temperatures at the rubble were nearly 500 degrees hotter than the maximum temperature for burning jet fuel? Either way, think what you like, but answer me this - what happened to WTC7? No plane hit it, and yet it fell too, just like the others, and that too was a steel framed building...

I am sorry my friends, but the simple truth is there are far too many things that would have to be just so, for the planes to fall in the WTC1 and 2, and there is no reason why WTC7 would have fell. But, if you feel better thinking that this was done by a few people with box cutters, have a party. I just chose to be a bit more sceptical when those that put for the story, are the same people that refuse to release information on the results of their inquiry, and then use that attack to further a fundimental goal of theirs.....

However, a couple of links in relation to the fuel thing...
www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RYA411A.html

and

http://911research.wtc7.net

www.lasvegastribune.com/20050729/headline3.html


BTW, you know the empire state building was also hit by a plane, blew a hole through the damn thing too - but it stayed up. The strucural intigrity of the building remained...

That is the last for me. Sorry if this isn't what you guys think, but the truth - as Mulder says - is out there. Just start to ask questions. Questioning is the only real freedom we actually have.

You just don't understand architecture and engineering. But that's okay, because people like you are good amusement.

Why don't you invest $60,000 and five years, go to school, and learn something? Then you can come back with your theories.

 

[FiveParadox]

TenPenny, arrogance and the arbitrary invalidation of other members' opinions is hardly becoming. It's a smear on your image that need not be there.

To the topic at hand, no metal is impervious to heat. It just depends on the temperature and the surrounding circumstances. In my personal opinion, the conspiracy theories surrounding the World Trace Centre attacks are, until such time as there is proof or some investigative results to support them, unfounded.

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: Jack Layton says ....

You just don't understand architecture and engineering. But that's okay, because people like you are good amusement.

Why don't you invest $60,000 and five years, go to school, and learn something? Then you can come back with your theories.

Watch this video, where the larry sylverstein who admitted to have demolished wtc 7 with explosives.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/pullIt3.wmv