No anger issues here. I believe what I know, you believe what you want to believe.
"It's Okay to Kill Gay People" - British Imam
- Thread starter Toro
- Start date
No anger issues here. I believe what I know, you believe what you want to believe.
I think its Possible that you dont know what you Believe....
Most Hommo Sexuals are born that way and cant help it, I know a few. Yes though some people choose to be Gay, Humans have the Right to Choose...... I may not agree with chooseing to be gay, But I do agree that humans have the right to choose their partners. But as for your Phycobabble comment, People can be born gay its pretty simple.
Its not like a Guy wakes up some day and says, Iam sick of pussy and tits. Iam also sure that people wouldnt choose to be discriminated against and looked down on by people like yourself.....
Thats like saying Asians choose to be asain, and Africans choose to be african, or that I choose to be Wasp. DONT WORK DAT WAY YO.
If it makes someone happier to be gay, then I am fine with that. That is good enough for me to not only not mind, but encourage them to do what makes them happy.
I figure there are a lot of factors responsible for one being gay... there is genetics for sure (must be, since we do have genes for sexual orientation on the X and Y chromosome - precisely which do what, we still aren't 100% sure of), and then there might be other biological factors, plus various environmental factors. It's probably a mix of these things at play, with one sometimes being more prominent than others depending on the case.
While I don't think there is a "gay gene", I do believe it is quite possible that having certain genes for sexual orientation can be a major factor in being a homosexual. I really don't doubt that some people are just "born that way". Still others may be born with tendencies towards being that way (but ultimately may or may not be that way). And perhaps others just liked what they found and wanted to be that way.
What causes homosexuality to exist? I don't know... Could be a lot of different things. Perhaps it is the struggle for survival at a genetic level. Perhaps in some way, at some point in time, having genes that make someone tend towards homosexuality provided some other benefit at the "tradeoff" of being gay. Perhaps the guy just likes the different type of relationship.
Then there is the fact that we (men and women) are more similar than we care to admit, and that if you look at certain traits from both sexes, you can see an overlapping between things typically associated with men or with women in certain individuals. Just variation within the population..
I figure there are a lot of factors responsible for one being gay... there is genetics for sure (must be, since we do have genes for sexual orientation on the X and Y chromosome - precisely which do what, we still aren't 100% sure of), and then there might be other biological factors, plus various environmental factors. It's probably a mix of these things at play, with one sometimes being more prominent than others depending on the case.
While I don't think there is a "gay gene", I do believe it is quite possible that having certain genes for sexual orientation can be a major factor in being a homosexual. I really don't doubt that some people are just "born that way". Still others may be born with tendencies towards being that way (but ultimately may or may not be that way). And perhaps others just liked what they found and wanted to be that way.
What causes homosexuality to exist? I don't know... Could be a lot of different things. Perhaps it is the struggle for survival at a genetic level. Perhaps in some way, at some point in time, having genes that make someone tend towards homosexuality provided some other benefit at the "tradeoff" of being gay. Perhaps the guy just likes the different type of relationship.
Then there is the fact that we (men and women) are more similar than we care to admit, and that if you look at certain traits from both sexes, you can see an overlapping between things typically associated with men or with women in certain individuals. Just variation within the population..
They're born that way.
If you think not, why don't you "choose" to have a sexual relationship with a member of the same sex.
Thats the most idiotic comparison. Sexual orientation cannot be compared in any way with race. If you believe that, you are a jerk.
Sexual orientation cannot be compared in any way with race, if only because race does not exist within humans while sexual orientation does...
That aside, I think eastsidescotian made fairly good points, and I don't think what he said was idiotic. People have genes affecting their skin colour (and/or whatever physical markers you might use to lump them in a certain race), and just the same, they have genes affecting sexual orientation. Sure, genes might not be the only thing involved in skin colour or sexual orientation, but they have their part, and no doubt major ones at that.
If you know something, let us in on it. So far you haven't brought up anything new, just said that these folks are jerks for thinking a certain way and that nobody will let you have your say due to censorship.
He must get along with the fundamentalist religious in the united states. Like those...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard
When you look at it a little deeper , the fundamentalist in the united states hates fundamentalist muslim, only because they just are the same.
Why race is what makes us differant, it is Gentic make up. Much like your friends the Hommosexual. Thats why their are Gays and Straights.
and if there are all these Geniticly Straight people choosing to be gay, there must be alot of Gay people choosing to be Straight...:O haha
Actually I think perhaps you are a tad reluctant to say what you think because the members (not the staff) will jump on you like a pride of lions on a wounded gazelle.
At any rate, Hotshot, you have your right to your opinions ... wrong headed as they may be. I'm a dyke. Born that way, wired that way, just a fact of life like having green eyes. Perversion is trying to force one set of beliefs on someone else. Live and let live.
As for the the topic ... no big surprise there. When women's rights are as curbed as they are in that part of the world, you can easily expect gay rights to lag behind that. Sad situation but the world is full of ignorance.
What a remarkably well thought out argument. 'If you don't agree with me, you are a jerk.' What kind of edjumakation enabled you to come up with that gem?
If it weren't for the fact that your arguments are completely unsupported by fact, and have little or no scientific basis, you would definately be coming ontop of this discussion.
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The gay crowd might feel better if they know that the Muslims are not discriminating,because they are not just targeting gays, it is fairly targetted bigotry all around...
after all, an Islamic Cleric in Australia confirms how women are also deserving of being targets of violence, discrimination, and criminal acts,
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13548989,00.html
Islamic Cleric in Australia suggests that women who don’t wear veils are inviting rape, and has compared them to uncovered meeat.
after all, an Islamic Cleric in Australia confirms how women are also deserving of being targets of violence, discrimination, and criminal acts,
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13548989,00.html
Islamic Cleric in Australia suggests that women who don’t wear veils are inviting rape, and has compared them to uncovered meeat.
northstar I came across this article, this mans days as a Mufti are over the Muslims are calling for him to step down; here is the article. I like the part where he says women can be used as weapons, he's a nut bar.
Sheik Hilali praises Iraq jihadists
Richard Kerbaj
October 30, 2006
TAJ Din al-Hilali has praised militant jihadists in Iraq and Afghanistan, calling them men of the highest order for fighting against coalition forces - which include Australian soldiers - to "liberate" their homelands.
In an interview on Arabic radio two weeks ago, the imam based at Sydney's Lakemba mosque said he was opposed to terror attacks in Madrid, London and New York but strongly endorsed fighters in the Palestinian territories, Iraq and Afghanistan. In the interview, Sheik Hilali pays tribute to Sayyid Qutb, the ideologue of the Muslim Brotherhood and intellectual mentor of Osama bin Laden and al-Qa'ida.
"Jihad of the liberator of Palestine, that's the greatest and cleanest and highest ... jihad which lifts our heads in pride in south Lebanon," Sheik Hilali says in the October 17 interview.
He tells broadcaster Abrahim Zoabi that he endorses jihad for liberation. "We are talking about ... jihad of liberating our land, jihad of Muslim Afghanis in their land - that's jihad.
"Jihad of Iraqi Muslims is jihad, but not when Sunnis and Shias are killing each other - that's not jihad."
The revelation comes as a neighbouring cleric from Sydney's Bankstown accused Sheik Hilali of supporting military Islamic jihad against the West and called on imams from around the country to band together to force the mufti to step down.
Sheik Ibrahim El-Shafie said yesterday Sheik Hilali was a follower of the Egyptian Islamic scholar Qutb, one of the founding fathers of modern jihad, whose teachings are used by al-Qa'ida and Jemaah Islamiah.
In the radio interview, Sheik Hilali says Qutb interpreted the Koran in the "finest manner". "Sayyid Qutb is an intellectual man ... who gave up his soul in 66 for Islam."
Sheik Shafie told The Australian that since arriving in Australia in 1982, Sheik Hilali had defended Qutb's radical ideology and praised him as a "martyr for Islam" and a "role model".
"Hilali has since he got here been defending the ideology of Sayyid Qutb," he said.
Sheik Shafie said Sheik Hilali's support of Qutb was effectively "encouraging" his followers to espouse and act on the executed scholar's ideologies.
"And as you know, those responsible for the Bali bombing are so-called JI and (follow) the same ideology as Sayyid Qutb, which Hilali is now defending," he said.
However, in the October 17 interview, Sheik Hilali insists: "The thinking of the Islamic movement of jihad is the defence of honour, not jihad of killing innocents such as in London and Madrid and New York and Sharm El-Sheikh (Egypt)."
And he adds, in the interview with Sydney-based Islamic community radio station Voice of Islam: "We don't condone, we don't accept ... anyone to kill civilians or innocents or blow up buses or whatever, not in America or in any place on earth."
As the Lebanese Muslim Association, which hosts the Lakemba Mosque, was still divided last night about how to handle the Hilali crisis, Sheik Shafie launched a scathing attack on his fellow Sunni cleric.
Sheik Shafie said Sheik Hilali was an "extremist" who posed as a moderate for political advantage that ultimately gained him Australian citizenship.
"This person is acting like a chameleon," he told The Australian yesterday. "The chameleon, if it stands on a green spot it turns green. If it stands on a blue spot it turns blue - so he's camouflaging.
"He might say we condemn such and such, but then, on the other side, when he is with his followers in the mosque, he'll start ... expressing his anti-Western views."
Sheik Shafie said the nation's imams needed to unite to remove Sheik Hilali as spiritual leader at Lakemba, where he presides over the largest group of Muslim worshippers in Australia.
As John Howard and Kim Beazley called for Muslims to act against Sheik Hilali, Jamal Rifi, from the Australian Muslim Doctors Against Violence, pleaded with the mufti: "Please step down, I urge you to step down. Enough is enough."
The controversy over Sheik Hilali flared last Thursday when The Australian published excerpts from a sermon he delivered last month in which he likened immodestly dressed women to uncovered meat and suggested rape victims were partly to blame for being attacked.
In the religious address about adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it - the cats or the uncovered meat?
"The uncovered meat is the problem."
The sheik then said: "If the woman was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."
He said women could be "weapons" used by Satan to control men.
"It is said that in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on thewoman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement."
Aside from his strong support base in southwestern Sydney, the Islamic community has condemned Sheik Hilali, and yesterday Queensland Muslims withdrew an invitation for him to attend a festival in Brisbane next week. The mufti had been scheduled to attend the Eid festival on Saturday to mark the end of Ramadan but organisers announced yesterday he would not be attending due to public outrage over his comments.
Organiser Sultan Deen said Sheik Hilali had been asked not to attend because his presence would overshadow the event.
"It would totally take the focus away from what we are trying to do and what we are trying to achieve, and we don't want that at all," he said.
Mr Deen said the mufti, who is regarded by many Muslims as their national leader, understood the organisers' decision and had agreed not to attend.
"He accepts his comments have been controversial to say the least, and they have created some sort of furore."
The Islamic Council of Victoria has already demanded that Sheik Hilali stand down.
Lebanese Muslim Association president Tom Zreika said last night that after a meeting over the weekend the body that runs Lakemba Mosque had decided on a plan to handle Sheik Hilali.
"We have put together a plan and hopefully we can get ourselves out of this crisis," he said.
The Australian understands the organisation will not move against the spiritual leader, fearing this would cause unrest among his worshippers, and hopes Sheik Hilali can stay out of the limelight before heading to Mecca in December.
The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils has vowed to abolish the title of mufti - the leader of the nation's Muslims - after new leaders are elected in February.
Sheik Hilali praises Iraq jihadists
Richard Kerbaj
October 30, 2006
TAJ Din al-Hilali has praised militant jihadists in Iraq and Afghanistan, calling them men of the highest order for fighting against coalition forces - which include Australian soldiers - to "liberate" their homelands.
In an interview on Arabic radio two weeks ago, the imam based at Sydney's Lakemba mosque said he was opposed to terror attacks in Madrid, London and New York but strongly endorsed fighters in the Palestinian territories, Iraq and Afghanistan. In the interview, Sheik Hilali pays tribute to Sayyid Qutb, the ideologue of the Muslim Brotherhood and intellectual mentor of Osama bin Laden and al-Qa'ida.
"Jihad of the liberator of Palestine, that's the greatest and cleanest and highest ... jihad which lifts our heads in pride in south Lebanon," Sheik Hilali says in the October 17 interview.
He tells broadcaster Abrahim Zoabi that he endorses jihad for liberation. "We are talking about ... jihad of liberating our land, jihad of Muslim Afghanis in their land - that's jihad.
"Jihad of Iraqi Muslims is jihad, but not when Sunnis and Shias are killing each other - that's not jihad."
The revelation comes as a neighbouring cleric from Sydney's Bankstown accused Sheik Hilali of supporting military Islamic jihad against the West and called on imams from around the country to band together to force the mufti to step down.
Sheik Ibrahim El-Shafie said yesterday Sheik Hilali was a follower of the Egyptian Islamic scholar Qutb, one of the founding fathers of modern jihad, whose teachings are used by al-Qa'ida and Jemaah Islamiah.
In the radio interview, Sheik Hilali says Qutb interpreted the Koran in the "finest manner". "Sayyid Qutb is an intellectual man ... who gave up his soul in 66 for Islam."
Sheik Shafie told The Australian that since arriving in Australia in 1982, Sheik Hilali had defended Qutb's radical ideology and praised him as a "martyr for Islam" and a "role model".
"Hilali has since he got here been defending the ideology of Sayyid Qutb," he said.
Sheik Shafie said Sheik Hilali's support of Qutb was effectively "encouraging" his followers to espouse and act on the executed scholar's ideologies.
"And as you know, those responsible for the Bali bombing are so-called JI and (follow) the same ideology as Sayyid Qutb, which Hilali is now defending," he said.
However, in the October 17 interview, Sheik Hilali insists: "The thinking of the Islamic movement of jihad is the defence of honour, not jihad of killing innocents such as in London and Madrid and New York and Sharm El-Sheikh (Egypt)."
And he adds, in the interview with Sydney-based Islamic community radio station Voice of Islam: "We don't condone, we don't accept ... anyone to kill civilians or innocents or blow up buses or whatever, not in America or in any place on earth."
As the Lebanese Muslim Association, which hosts the Lakemba Mosque, was still divided last night about how to handle the Hilali crisis, Sheik Shafie launched a scathing attack on his fellow Sunni cleric.
Sheik Shafie said Sheik Hilali was an "extremist" who posed as a moderate for political advantage that ultimately gained him Australian citizenship.
"This person is acting like a chameleon," he told The Australian yesterday. "The chameleon, if it stands on a green spot it turns green. If it stands on a blue spot it turns blue - so he's camouflaging.
"He might say we condemn such and such, but then, on the other side, when he is with his followers in the mosque, he'll start ... expressing his anti-Western views."
Sheik Shafie said the nation's imams needed to unite to remove Sheik Hilali as spiritual leader at Lakemba, where he presides over the largest group of Muslim worshippers in Australia.
As John Howard and Kim Beazley called for Muslims to act against Sheik Hilali, Jamal Rifi, from the Australian Muslim Doctors Against Violence, pleaded with the mufti: "Please step down, I urge you to step down. Enough is enough."
The controversy over Sheik Hilali flared last Thursday when The Australian published excerpts from a sermon he delivered last month in which he likened immodestly dressed women to uncovered meat and suggested rape victims were partly to blame for being attacked.
In the religious address about adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it - the cats or the uncovered meat?
"The uncovered meat is the problem."
The sheik then said: "If the woman was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."
He said women could be "weapons" used by Satan to control men.
"It is said that in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on thewoman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement."
Aside from his strong support base in southwestern Sydney, the Islamic community has condemned Sheik Hilali, and yesterday Queensland Muslims withdrew an invitation for him to attend a festival in Brisbane next week. The mufti had been scheduled to attend the Eid festival on Saturday to mark the end of Ramadan but organisers announced yesterday he would not be attending due to public outrage over his comments.
Organiser Sultan Deen said Sheik Hilali had been asked not to attend because his presence would overshadow the event.
"It would totally take the focus away from what we are trying to do and what we are trying to achieve, and we don't want that at all," he said.
Mr Deen said the mufti, who is regarded by many Muslims as their national leader, understood the organisers' decision and had agreed not to attend.
"He accepts his comments have been controversial to say the least, and they have created some sort of furore."
The Islamic Council of Victoria has already demanded that Sheik Hilali stand down.
Lebanese Muslim Association president Tom Zreika said last night that after a meeting over the weekend the body that runs Lakemba Mosque had decided on a plan to handle Sheik Hilali.
"We have put together a plan and hopefully we can get ourselves out of this crisis," he said.
The Australian understands the organisation will not move against the spiritual leader, fearing this would cause unrest among his worshippers, and hopes Sheik Hilali can stay out of the limelight before heading to Mecca in December.
The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils has vowed to abolish the title of mufti - the leader of the nation's Muslims - after new leaders are elected in February.
Are you saying that only British imans are saying this but the rest of Britain is welcoming to GLB people? So there are no non-muslim Brits that are bigoted against gay people? I doubt that.
Christians in America just do not believe in Gay marriage. They do not want them killed.
Personally I could care less. If they want to be as miserable as us stright folk who are married then let them make the same mistake.
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Actually I think perhaps you are a tad reluctant to say what you think because the members (not the staff) will jump on you like a pride of lions on a wounded gazelle.
At any rate, Hotshot, you have your right to your opinions ... wrong headed as they may be. I'm a dyke. Born that way, wired that way, just a fact of life like having green eyes. Perversion is trying to force one set of beliefs on someone else. Live and let live.
As for the the topic ... no big surprise there. When women's rights are as curbed as they are in that part of the world, you can easily expect gay rights to lag behind that. Sad situation but the world is full of ignorance.
I'll just say this: Using the comment "born that way" is just a cop-out, excuse and psyco-babble for an unnatural perversion...
Hot shot would you care to explain your comments of: I'll just say this: Using the comment "born that way" is just a cop-out, excuse and psyco-babble for an unnatural perversion...
What do you mean by cop-out and excuse? Why do gays need an excuse, they are born gay. Just like you were born a hetro-Sexual (I'm assuming you aren't bi). Since the dawn of time Homo-sexuals have been around, isn't it time to stop blaming them for being different and start being kind and embracing our differences. You seem frightened by gays, are you having an inner struggle with your sexuality? It's okay to be Gay Hotshot, society doesn't care anymore it's normal and okay to be Gay.
What do you mean by cop-out and excuse? Why do gays need an excuse, they are born gay. Just like you were born a hetro-Sexual (I'm assuming you aren't bi). Since the dawn of time Homo-sexuals have been around, isn't it time to stop blaming them for being different and start being kind and embracing our differences. You seem frightened by gays, are you having an inner struggle with your sexuality? It's okay to be Gay Hotshot, society doesn't care anymore it's normal and okay to be Gay.
Hotshots posts are a cop out. He doesn't explain anything because he's to stupid to explain and he doesn't know what he's talking about.
It's natural. Science has shown when a group of animals is overpopulated in a controlled test, some will become gay. It's natural to assume that since the planet is overpopulated, some will be born gay. There has been gay people all through the history of human kind.
It's natural. Science has shown when a group of animals is overpopulated in a controlled test, some will become gay. It's natural to assume that since the planet is overpopulated, some will be born gay. There has been gay people all through the history of human kind.
I feel that they are born that way. I have a brother in law who is gay and he said to me.
"How could I chose this life? These feelings? What person would want to go through this by choice?"
He's such a good guy too.
Also, I am a Christian and I do not want him or any others to be killed or discriminated against.
"How could I chose this life? These feelings? What person would want to go through this by choice?"
He's such a good guy too.
Also, I am a Christian and I do not want him or any others to be killed or discriminated against.
TO THE FIRST PART...
I don't think being gay is "normal" but nor do I think it is abnormal.... I'm sure it's not the way nature..or God intended..if he did we wouldn't have any kids to continue on right. But I'm sure it is no more intentional in a gay person to be gay then it is for a straight person to be straight. Why am I turned on by a good looking women...I have know idea..it just happens. I'm sure its the same for a gay person. The only difference I see now a days is that it's ok to be gay now so anyone who had little feelings doesn't have to hide them anymore or can atleast experiement with them.
THE SECOND PART ..I am not so forgiving.... If God wants all the gays dead, then he will kill them. Why does he tell ugly bearded men to get others to wipe them out....I don't see the ugly bearded men doing it?
These wackos can't keep their frustrations to themselves so they spew this stuff off as fact and hide behind God to do it..Well God is watching and I don't think 27 virgins is what he has ready for the Imans when they die
I don't think being gay is "normal" but nor do I think it is abnormal.... I'm sure it's not the way nature..or God intended..if he did we wouldn't have any kids to continue on right. But I'm sure it is no more intentional in a gay person to be gay then it is for a straight person to be straight. Why am I turned on by a good looking women...I have know idea..it just happens. I'm sure its the same for a gay person. The only difference I see now a days is that it's ok to be gay now so anyone who had little feelings doesn't have to hide them anymore or can atleast experiement with them.
THE SECOND PART ..I am not so forgiving.... If God wants all the gays dead, then he will kill them. Why does he tell ugly bearded men to get others to wipe them out....I don't see the ugly bearded men doing it?
These wackos can't keep their frustrations to themselves so they spew this stuff off as fact and hide behind God to do it..Well God is watching and I don't think 27 virgins is what he has ready for the Imans when they die
I know what I am talking about. The word 'perverted' comes to mind.
'Its natural' is the biggest heap of BS.
An aside: Your example abut animals indicates that some animals 'become gay' to control overpopulation. This means by your wording that they were born straight. Sort of shoots down your argument that gays are born that way, doesn't it??