Re: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
What now?
Dispair, frustation, anger on both sides.
But hope for a brighter tomorrow.
What now?
Dispair, frustation, anger on both sides.
But hope for a brighter tomorrow.
Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime somewh
- Thread starter Jersay
- Start date
RE: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
The only way progress will occur is to actually
be accurate and honest about the ongoing sins of
both sides.
It may seem lopsided, but we cannot hope for
people to ever see a parity between both, can we?
I can go tit for tat, quid pro quo with anyone
and be pretty accurate about the sins of both.
I certainly took a long time to understand this idea
of a FALSE CHOICE, despite believing in my heart
that getting rid of Israel is the worst solution of all.
The only way progress will occur is to actually
be accurate and honest about the ongoing sins of
both sides.
It may seem lopsided, but we cannot hope for
people to ever see a parity between both, can we?
I can go tit for tat, quid pro quo with anyone
and be pretty accurate about the sins of both.
I certainly took a long time to understand this idea
of a FALSE CHOICE, despite believing in my heart
that getting rid of Israel is the worst solution of all.
Re: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
You make sense Jimmoyer.
Both sides have done horrendous things over the years, some better documented then others.
I will have to think about this situation.
You make sense Jimmoyer.
Both sides have done horrendous things over the years, some better documented then others.
I will have to think about this situation.
RE: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
Your last post is the best we can hope.
Your last post is the best we can hope.
Re: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
Criticizing isralis gov is nowhere near to be anti-semite, i know it is a popular song from right wing simple minded, but it is the case.
Isrealis gov does target civilians, they pretend not to, but they really do, remember the attack on jenin??
Here's what Human Rights Watch (HRW) had to say about what happened at Jenin:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/sr.gowans/jenin.html
Johnny Utah said:
Criticizing isralis gov is nowhere near to be anti-semite, i know it is a popular song from right wing simple minded, but it is the case.
Isrealis gov does target civilians, they pretend not to, but they really do, remember the attack on jenin??
Here's what Human Rights Watch (HRW) had to say about what happened at Jenin:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/sr.gowans/jenin.html
Re: RE: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crim
There wasnt none?? that shows how is your credibility.
http://www.palestinehistory.com/history.htm
1000-1899 AD
1517 AD : The Ottoman Turks of Asia Minor defeated the Mamelukes, with few interruptions, ruled Palestine until the winter of 1917-18. The country was divided into several districts (sanjaks), such as that of Jerusalem. The administration of the districts was placed largely in the hands of Arab Palestinians, who were descendants of the Canaanites. The Christian and Jewish communities, however, were allowed a large measure of autonomy. Palestine shared in the glory of the Ottoman Empire during the 16th century, but declined again when the empire began to decline in the 17th century.
1831-1840 AD : Muhammad Ali, the modernizing viceroy of Egypt, expanded his rule to Palestine . His policies modified the feudal order, increased agriculture, and improved education.
1840 The Ottoman Empire reasserted its authority, instituting its own reforms .
1845 Jewish in Palestine were 12,000 increased to 85,000 by 1914. All people in Palestine were Arabic Muslims and Christians.
1897 the first Zionist Congress held Basle, Switzerland, issued the Basle programme on the colonization of Palestine.
1900-1946
1904 the Fourth Zionist Congress decided to establish a national home for Jews in Argentina.
1906 the Zionist congress decided the Jewish homeland should be Palestine.
1914 With the outbreak of World War I, Britain promised the independence of Arab lands under Ottoman rule, including Palestine, in return for Arab support against Turkey which had entered the war on the side of Germany.
1916 Britain and France signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned to France, Jordan and Iraq to Britain and Palestine was to be internationalized.
1917 The British government issued the Balfour Declaration on November 2, in the form of a letter to a British Zionist leader from the foreign secretary Arthur J. Balfour prmissing him the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine.
1917-1918 Aided by the Arabs, the British captured Palestine from the Ottoman Turks. The Arabs revolted against the Turks because the British had promised them, in correspondence with Shareef Husein ibn Ali of Mecca, the independence of their countries after the war. Britain, however, also made other, conflicting commitments in the secret Sykes-Picot agreement with France and Russia (1916), it promised to divide and rule the region with its allies. In a third agreement, the Balfour Declaration of 1917, Britain promised the Jews a Jewish "national home" in Palestine .
1918 After WW I ended, Jews began to migrate to Palestine, which was set a side as a British mandate with the approval of the League of Nations in 1922. Large-scale Jewish settlement and extensive Zionist agricultural and industrial enterprises in Palestine began during the British mandatory period, which lasted until 1948.
1919 The Palestinians convened their first National Conference and expressed their opposition to the Balfour Declaration.
1920 The San Remo Conference granted Britain a mandate over Palestine. and two years later Palestine was effectively under British administration. Sir Herbert Samuel, a declared Zionist, was sent as Britain's first High Commissioner to Palestine.
1922 The Council of the League of Nations issued a Mandate for Palestine.
1929 Large-scale attacks on Jews by Arabs rocked Jerusalem. Palestinians killed 133 Jews and suffered 116 deaths. Sparked by a dispute over use of the Western Wall of Al-Aqsa Mosque ( this site is sacred to Muslims, but Jews claimed it is the remaining of jews temple all studies shows clearly that the wall is from the Islamic ages and it is part of al-Aqsa Mosque). But the roots of the conflict lay deeper in Arab fears of the Zionist movement which aimed to make at least part of British-administered Palestine a Jewish state.
1936 The Palestinians held a six-month General Strike to protest against the confiscation of land and Jewish immigration.
1937 Peel Commission, headed by Lord Robert Peel, issued a report. Basically, the commission concluded, the mandate in Palestine was unworkable There was no hope of any cooperative national entity there that included both Arabs and Jews. The commission went on to recommend the partition of Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a neutral sacred-site state to be administered by Britain.
1939 The British government published a White Paper restricting Jewish immigration and offering independence for Palestine within ten years. This was rejected by the Zionists, who then organized terrorist groups and launched a bloody campaign against the British and the Palestinians.
EagleSmack said:
There wasnt none?? that shows how is your credibility.
http://www.palestinehistory.com/history.htm
1000-1899 AD
1517 AD : The Ottoman Turks of Asia Minor defeated the Mamelukes, with few interruptions, ruled Palestine until the winter of 1917-18. The country was divided into several districts (sanjaks), such as that of Jerusalem. The administration of the districts was placed largely in the hands of Arab Palestinians, who were descendants of the Canaanites. The Christian and Jewish communities, however, were allowed a large measure of autonomy. Palestine shared in the glory of the Ottoman Empire during the 16th century, but declined again when the empire began to decline in the 17th century.
1831-1840 AD : Muhammad Ali, the modernizing viceroy of Egypt, expanded his rule to Palestine . His policies modified the feudal order, increased agriculture, and improved education.
1840 The Ottoman Empire reasserted its authority, instituting its own reforms .
1845 Jewish in Palestine were 12,000 increased to 85,000 by 1914. All people in Palestine were Arabic Muslims and Christians.
1897 the first Zionist Congress held Basle, Switzerland, issued the Basle programme on the colonization of Palestine.
1900-1946
1904 the Fourth Zionist Congress decided to establish a national home for Jews in Argentina.
1906 the Zionist congress decided the Jewish homeland should be Palestine.
1914 With the outbreak of World War I, Britain promised the independence of Arab lands under Ottoman rule, including Palestine, in return for Arab support against Turkey which had entered the war on the side of Germany.
1916 Britain and France signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned to France, Jordan and Iraq to Britain and Palestine was to be internationalized.
1917 The British government issued the Balfour Declaration on November 2, in the form of a letter to a British Zionist leader from the foreign secretary Arthur J. Balfour prmissing him the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine.
1917-1918 Aided by the Arabs, the British captured Palestine from the Ottoman Turks. The Arabs revolted against the Turks because the British had promised them, in correspondence with Shareef Husein ibn Ali of Mecca, the independence of their countries after the war. Britain, however, also made other, conflicting commitments in the secret Sykes-Picot agreement with France and Russia (1916), it promised to divide and rule the region with its allies. In a third agreement, the Balfour Declaration of 1917, Britain promised the Jews a Jewish "national home" in Palestine .
1918 After WW I ended, Jews began to migrate to Palestine, which was set a side as a British mandate with the approval of the League of Nations in 1922. Large-scale Jewish settlement and extensive Zionist agricultural and industrial enterprises in Palestine began during the British mandatory period, which lasted until 1948.
1919 The Palestinians convened their first National Conference and expressed their opposition to the Balfour Declaration.
1920 The San Remo Conference granted Britain a mandate over Palestine. and two years later Palestine was effectively under British administration. Sir Herbert Samuel, a declared Zionist, was sent as Britain's first High Commissioner to Palestine.
1922 The Council of the League of Nations issued a Mandate for Palestine.
1929 Large-scale attacks on Jews by Arabs rocked Jerusalem. Palestinians killed 133 Jews and suffered 116 deaths. Sparked by a dispute over use of the Western Wall of Al-Aqsa Mosque ( this site is sacred to Muslims, but Jews claimed it is the remaining of jews temple all studies shows clearly that the wall is from the Islamic ages and it is part of al-Aqsa Mosque). But the roots of the conflict lay deeper in Arab fears of the Zionist movement which aimed to make at least part of British-administered Palestine a Jewish state.
1936 The Palestinians held a six-month General Strike to protest against the confiscation of land and Jewish immigration.
1937 Peel Commission, headed by Lord Robert Peel, issued a report. Basically, the commission concluded, the mandate in Palestine was unworkable There was no hope of any cooperative national entity there that included both Arabs and Jews. The commission went on to recommend the partition of Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a neutral sacred-site state to be administered by Britain.
1939 The British government published a White Paper restricting Jewish immigration and offering independence for Palestine within ten years. This was rejected by the Zionists, who then organized terrorist groups and launched a bloody campaign against the British and the Palestinians.
Re: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
Thank you for your info on this aeon. However, like jim saids it doesn't help the situation now.
Now if John or Eaglesmack come back with 'nothing' credible then they are not credible for this issue.
Thank you for your info on this aeon. However, like jim saids it doesn't help the situation now.
Now if John or Eaglesmack come back with 'nothing' credible then they are not credible for this issue.
Re: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
I don't need anything "credible" to support Israel and it's right to exist and it's right to self defense which means striking back at Terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. It's Terrorist groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas who hide in those areas behind the Palestinians while ordering strikes against Israelis. The blood of innocent Palestinians is on the hands of Hezbollah and Hamas not Israel.Jersay said:
Re: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
So when Israeli soldiers shoot dead an innocent civilian, or prisoner which is fact that they have done many times in the past. It's Palestinian fault.
What great logic. :roll:
So when Israeli soldiers shoot dead an innocent civilian, or prisoner which is fact that they have done many times in the past. It's Palestinian fault.
What great logic. :roll:
Re: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
Since you turn a blind eye to Israel you are no better as Jim was trying to say about moving ahead.
I look at Israel's abuses, and blame Israel. While you blame Palestinians for everything.
So I am done trying to discuss this because you will stay on your side of the coin, while I will try to think ahead about trying to find a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Since you turn a blind eye to Israel you are no better as Jim was trying to say about moving ahead.
I look at Israel's abuses, and blame Israel. While you blame Palestinians for everything.
So I am done trying to discuss this because you will stay on your side of the coin, while I will try to think ahead about trying to find a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Re: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
I don't blame the Palestinains I blame Hezbollah and Hamas who hide in the Gaza Strip and West Bank like cowards knowing Israel will strike them in response wherever they are hiding. Palestinian blood is on Hezbollah and Hamas's hands not Israel's.Jersay said:
RE: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
I would love to hear the statements of folks who talk about the evils of Israel when one of these poor scumbags blows themselves up in a market killing Israeli and Palestinian civilians.
In Palestine they parade their dead like macabre trophies for the media. While the body parts of victims to suicide bombings are considered too graphic.
Perhaps if the Israeli's and Palestinians who fall prey to these suicide bomber scumbags carted the mangled and mutilated bodies of victims out into the public eye there would not be this perplexing sympathy for the devil.
M
I would love to hear the statements of folks who talk about the evils of Israel when one of these poor scumbags blows themselves up in a market killing Israeli and Palestinian civilians.
In Palestine they parade their dead like macabre trophies for the media. While the body parts of victims to suicide bombings are considered too graphic.
Perhaps if the Israeli's and Palestinians who fall prey to these suicide bomber scumbags carted the mangled and mutilated bodies of victims out into the public eye there would not be this perplexing sympathy for the devil.
M
RE: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
Actually the Iraqis to a person spat on the body parts
of every suicide bomber.
Palestinians ought to follow the Iraqi example.
And the west bank Israeli settlers better leave if
THE WALL doesn't include them.
And the Arab Oil Dollar better start investing in
changing the Palestinian society instead of leaving
them to hang.
The best wisdom will be for these people to realize
the wisest solution is to live together and they'll
learn something far more important than anything
their own hatred teaches them.
Yes, the West bestowed a FALSE CHOICE on that land,
but now after 58 years Israel is not going to leave,
and now after all of this it should not, for it would
honor every cynical manipulator to do so.
It would honor those predators who searched for
a young tabula rasa to wear a clown vest assuring that
young person a lie and a death ---- quite different
from politicians getting soldiers to fight.
Soldiers got a chance to live. Clown vest suits allow
no chance.
Actually the Iraqis to a person spat on the body parts
of every suicide bomber.
Palestinians ought to follow the Iraqi example.
And the west bank Israeli settlers better leave if
THE WALL doesn't include them.
And the Arab Oil Dollar better start investing in
changing the Palestinian society instead of leaving
them to hang.
The best wisdom will be for these people to realize
the wisest solution is to live together and they'll
learn something far more important than anything
their own hatred teaches them.
Yes, the West bestowed a FALSE CHOICE on that land,
but now after 58 years Israel is not going to leave,
and now after all of this it should not, for it would
honor every cynical manipulator to do so.
It would honor those predators who searched for
a young tabula rasa to wear a clown vest assuring that
young person a lie and a death ---- quite different
from politicians getting soldiers to fight.
Soldiers got a chance to live. Clown vest suits allow
no chance.
RE: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
By the way, Jersay, congratulations for deciding
to take a more honorable approach. I don't ask you
to side with the Israelis, but the best either side
can hope for is what you are deciding to do: Think
about WHAT NOW ?
I imagine we will all occasionally post what our
particular dislike is, but I see more change and hope
in Palestine than in all the preceding years.
One was this recent election, despite my misgivings
about the Hamas, and much preferring the PLA President
Abbas. He resigned under Arafat disgusted with
the corruption of his own party and the continued
cynical manipulation of his people's plight.
And the other is THE WALL. It seriously cut down
the suicide bombers and thus cut down indiscriminate
Israeli retaliation.
Another was the Gaza withdrawal.
Although it hurt the economy for Gaza.
And finally Hamas considering stopping rocket launches
from population centers taunting evil Jew retaliation.
Both sides must stop.
And we all must consider that each side in this
conflict overcompenates emphazing one evil and
ignoring the other's evil, feeling they must do so
because they believe the other guy is not aware.
Continuing to do so is a circus.
By the way, Jersay, congratulations for deciding
to take a more honorable approach. I don't ask you
to side with the Israelis, but the best either side
can hope for is what you are deciding to do: Think
about WHAT NOW ?
I imagine we will all occasionally post what our
particular dislike is, but I see more change and hope
in Palestine than in all the preceding years.
One was this recent election, despite my misgivings
about the Hamas, and much preferring the PLA President
Abbas. He resigned under Arafat disgusted with
the corruption of his own party and the continued
cynical manipulation of his people's plight.
And the other is THE WALL. It seriously cut down
the suicide bombers and thus cut down indiscriminate
Israeli retaliation.
Another was the Gaza withdrawal.
Although it hurt the economy for Gaza.
And finally Hamas considering stopping rocket launches
from population centers taunting evil Jew retaliation.
Both sides must stop.
And we all must consider that each side in this
conflict overcompenates emphazing one evil and
ignoring the other's evil, feeling they must do so
because they believe the other guy is not aware.
Continuing to do so is a circus.
Re: RE: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crim
You say both side must stop, but on one side you have more than 5 national terrorist group, which isnt representative of the population, and on the other side you have an elected governement who are still doing their dirty job on palestinians, even right after the cease of fire, which hamas respected it, by the way.
To me this conflict is like a guy called the rich""good guy" who beat someone on every day basis which is the poor ""bad guy"", and one day that poor "" bad guy"" decides to defend himself, and the rich""good guy"" look at his friends( that he pays for their support)"" hey guys look, he is trying to hurt me"" and the people who has been bribes, are saying, "" yeah yeah , beat him to death, anyway he is just bad guy""
jimmoyer said:
You say both side must stop, but on one side you have more than 5 national terrorist group, which isnt representative of the population, and on the other side you have an elected governement who are still doing their dirty job on palestinians, even right after the cease of fire, which hamas respected it, by the way.
To me this conflict is like a guy called the rich""good guy" who beat someone on every day basis which is the poor ""bad guy"", and one day that poor "" bad guy"" decides to defend himself, and the rich""good guy"" look at his friends( that he pays for their support)"" hey guys look, he is trying to hurt me"" and the people who has been bribes, are saying, "" yeah yeah , beat him to death, anyway he is just bad guy""
Re: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
Typical pulling out the "Hitler Card" when all else fails. :lol:aeon said:
RE: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crime so
You say both side must stop, but on one side you have more than 5 national terrorist group, which isnt representative of the population, and on the other side you have an elected governement who are still doing their dirty job on palestinians, even right after the cease of fire, which hamas respected it, by the way.
-------------------------aeon---------------------------
Each clause in your statement is eminently
questionable and debateable.
You say both side must stop, but on one side you have more than 5 national terrorist group, which isnt representative of the population, and on the other side you have an elected governement who are still doing their dirty job on palestinians, even right after the cease of fire, which hamas respected it, by the way.
-------------------------aeon---------------------------
Each clause in your statement is eminently
questionable and debateable.
Re: RE: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crim
My credibility? Surely you are joking. Even with all of your cutting and pasting you have been unable to answer my question. I asked who was the President (or equivelent) of Palestine?
The answer still remains... there was none.
Palestine has always been occupied and thanks to your research you confirmed what I have said! :lol:
Even under ARAB control the Palestinians were NEVER given full control of the lands THEY claimed were theirs.
aeon said:
My credibility? Surely you are joking. Even with all of your cutting and pasting you have been unable to answer my question. I asked who was the President (or equivelent) of Palestine?
The answer still remains... there was none.
Palestine has always been occupied and thanks to your research you confirmed what I have said! :lol:
Even under ARAB control the Palestinians were NEVER given full control of the lands THEY claimed were theirs.
Re: RE: Israel shells populated areas: most definetly a crim
My credibility? Surely you are joking. Even with all of your cutting and pasting you have been unable to answer my question. I asked who was the President (or equivelent) of Palestine?
The answer still remains... there was none.
Palestine has always been occupied and thanks to your research you confirmed what I have said! :lol:
Even under ARAB control the Palestinians were NEVER given full control of the lands THEY claimed were theirs.[/quote]
Following your stupid logic, there was no israel before UN gave to them in 1948.Israelis jews started to immigrate in 1900 to israel, when palestinians was already there.
EagleSmack said:
My credibility? Surely you are joking. Even with all of your cutting and pasting you have been unable to answer my question. I asked who was the President (or equivelent) of Palestine?
The answer still remains... there was none.
Palestine has always been occupied and thanks to your research you confirmed what I have said! :lol:
Even under ARAB control the Palestinians were NEVER given full control of the lands THEY claimed were theirs.[/quote]
Following your stupid logic, there was no israel before UN gave to them in 1948.Israelis jews started to immigrate in 1900 to israel, when palestinians was already there.