Islamic education; a child's view

[earth_as_one]

Is this viewpoint any more tolerant than that preached in the Jesus camp?

I was referring of course to the rewards offered by chance of birth, if you are a Jihad Muslim male you are entitled to these things as justified by the teachings of ISLAM ala Quran, and it you are unfortunate enough to be a female, you are subject to this treatment and so the burkas really work to cover bruising...

...terrorism has been conducted by Jihad Muslims upon the the entire world on a continual basis both historically and currently, that it has been conducted in the name of ALLAH and the law of ISLAM, and that much of the "terrorism" conducted by Muslims whether in the world [note the whatever is missing, since there is no ambiguity about these crimes} may be construed as counter-terrorism terrorism,in response to the fact that they are unable to brainwash people all over the globe with sympathy pleas...

 

[earth_as_one]

Welcome, and thanks for your contribution. eao

My apologies if I kind of wandered into this thread out of place, but here are my thoughts...

All fundamentalists, regardless of the religion they come from, are ****ed up, in my opinion. 'Christian evangelists', 'jihad muslims'... all of them freak the hell right out of me!

The major difference, as someone posted in the following YouTube link, is that these muslim fundamentalists are more desperate than the christian fundamentalists, hence suicide bombings. I'd say there might be some truth to that.

Check out this video of "Jesus Camp".

Tryin' to show you both sides, kinda like Fox News Both sides of the same rotten coin...

In response to

northstar:

Islamic education; a child's view
Here is a darling little girl, of Hueida and Wagdi Al-Arabi and can help us understand the tolerance and understandings of all true Muslims'...

[URL="http://soapbox.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=79ef3dfd-9e89-4e9a-ba63-920fef044075"]http://soapbox.msn.com/video.aspx?vid=79ef3dfd-9e89-4e9a-ba63-920fef044075 [/URL]

Neither path leads to peace.

 

[northstar]

Northstar, You are dispicable.

This could be Fake, not only that. It is a child.

---from eastscotian

Why would I be despicable,Mr. emotional, I am so self-righteous????

am I dispicable because l have shown this video and posted a thread for comment.

am I dispicable because l am trying to look closely at the Quran and these type of Media publishings and l am trying to understand how it equates to the events of our current world?

am I dispicable because the SATANIC VERSES pointed out the first warning to our free world of the growing threat of the Eastern world, the oppression and violence of the Holy SCRIPTURES and then Osama BL {or better BS} drew the same parrell in his victory speech over the deaths of thousands of innocent hard working people. And also this has been echoed by all the terrorist plots and anti-social behavior, murder, kidnapping and destruction that has effected our world on a global scale??

-am l dispicable then, to question who is following the fanatical Quran teachings in our minority Muslim popluation.

-am l dispicable then, to follow this parrell drawn by the Quran and it's modern media teachings that hurt children, women and promotes disgusting behaviour that is outlawed and criminalized in our society.

-am l dispicable then to recongnize that the Jihad 'struggle' is considered by some in the literal sense and by other the spiritual. And then to follow this train of reasoning and ask how the spiritual battle has anything to do with this teaching, and is it related to the Quran or have they completely re-written the violent and oppressive and discriminatory religion entirely??

I can go on, but unless you can comment without losing your grip on reality, l don't see the point in responding to all your personal ranting and raving.

 

[northstar]

earth as one,

the first step in any change is by acknowledging, so l completely disagree with your statement that neither one leads to peace. l think that your posts are hypocritical because if you truly believed that discussion is not the path to peace you wouldn't be here arguing your points.

Change can never begin without an idea of the issue. So in defining an issue, we can begin.

 

[northstar]

Interesting earth, to see your take on Jihad as an inner struggle rather than any doctorines of the Quranic teachings.

The Jihad was the self-title of the Terrorists that began in the eyes of most people after the murder of thousands of innocent people and destruction of 9/11. As we watched the joyful celebrations of Muslims' in many countries of the east, we were treated to the Muslim leader who officially announced the declaration of war on the Western World and explained how all Muslims' were called by the laws of Islam to the JIHAD movement. Taken literally. Since then l have seen a few, very few Isamic clerics say that this struggle is spiritual and define it as the struggle between the spirit and the teachings of the Quran.

So when you look at the teachings of the Quran we are again looking at these issues, that are brought to literal life, by examples such as the video l am showing.

So how do you explain how the Jihad is about peace?

and how does this peaceful existance that supports the education of innocent children while supporting the teachings of the Quran?

 

[northstar]

I posted this on thread 'sexual oppression' and it is No. 64

this is a reply to earth's post which denoted the Jihad as peace. To avoid confusion, the Jihad Muslims are titled to describe those Muslims that subscribe to the teachings of the terrorists, in taking the Quran literally. the title was taken by Oslama BL following the celebration of the murder and destruction of thousands of innocent working people and buildings, in his declaration of war the the Western World.

The JIhad Muslim then refers to fanatical Muslims who follow the teachings of the Quran literally. Now it is used by USA, CANADA, UK, SWEDEN, NORWARY, GERMANY, FRANCE, NATO, ARGENTINA, AND THE UN, to describe the followers of the terrorists that have declared a holy war based on Mohammad's teachings-

Therefore, when discussing Islam and Jihad, what must be considered most applicable are Muhammad’s final teachings and commands, especially what his last wishes and instructions were regarding Jihad and violence.

From the viewpoint of the non-Muslim world, we must know which Qur’anic passages are still in force today for the Muslim community, and which are not.

Earlier statements related to peace may or may not have been abrogated by later statements related to violence, or visa versa. We must carefully examine the context of the texts to know which Jihadic directions are acceptable and in force today.

The revered work "al-Nasikh wal-Mansukh" (The Abrogator and the Abrogated) deals in great detail with many subject matters addressed in the Qur’an wherein there appears to be some conflict or contradiction.

The book goes through every sura (chapter), pointing out in full detail every verse which has been canceled, and the verse(s) which replace it.

The author notes that out of 114 suras, there are only 43 which were not affected by this concept. As an example of the scope of abrogation in the Qur’an: there are 125 versus that call for tolerance and patience which have been canceled and replaced by sura
9:5: "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)....."

and sura 5:33: "For those who do not submit to Allah their punishment is . . . execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet, from the opposite sides, or exile from the land".
[See: Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, An-Nasikh wal- Mansukh, Dar al-Kotob al-'Elmeyah, birute, 1986 p.27]

Muslim activists universally fail to reveal to Westerners this major doctrine, hiding the fact that earlier conciliatory passages have been rendered null and void for over 1300 years.

When Westerners discover it on their own they complain we misinterpret such writings or misapply their impact.

Muslim promoters prefer to polish Islam's image by quoting the earlier abrogated Meccan passages that call for patience and forbearance.

Spokespersons hide or omit Medinan passages that clearly call for killing and maiming.

When hearing people explain Islam claiming the earlier more peaceful verses are dominant in Islamic philosophy, one must judge between two options; Either the presenter is completely ignorant of genuine Islamic doctrine, or he is practicing officially sanctioned Islamic deceit.

Because opinions with regard to proper conduct between believers and non-believers varies widely, the question of which Qur’anic verses are ‘alive’ and being applied today, is critical to understanding ‘Real Islam’,

and potentially to our own survival. Ibn Warraq summarizes the Muslim concept of abrogation as follows:

"Contradictions do abound in the Koran, and the early Muslims were perfectly well aware of them; indeed they devised the science of abrogation to deal with them.

It is a very convenient doctrine that, as one Christian unkindly put it, ‘fell in with that law of expediency which appears to be the salient feature in Muhammad’s prophetic career’.

According to this doctrine, certain passages of the Koran are abrogated by verses revealed afterward, with a different or contrary meaning.

This was supposedly taught by Muhammad himself,
at Sura 2, verse 105: 'Whatever verses we cancel or cause you to forget, we bring a better or its like.' …

Now we can see how useful and convenient the doctrine of abrogation is in bailing scholars out of difficulties- though, of course, it does pose problems for apologists of Islam,
since all the passages preaching tolerance are found in Meccan (i.e., early suras),

and all the passages recommending killing, decapitating and maiming, the so-called Sword Verses are Medinan (i.e., later); ‘tolerance’ has been abrogated by ‘intolerance’. For, the famous Sword verse, Sura 9, verse 5, 'Slay the idolaters wherever you find them,' is claimed to have canceled 124 verses that promote tolerance and patience." [4]

FROM ISLAM UNDRESSED by Vernon Richards Chapter 2, The Doctrine of Abrogation

there are may other insights into this Jihad following that holds violence and intolerant attitudes of the Quran.

It is important to note that religious scriptures that followed the Quran sometimes contradicted the Quran, and this happens in the Hadith, and when this contriction occurs the Quran rules.

So in the struggle of inner spirituality about the violence that follows the peaceful manipulations, how is this resolved to anything but the very definate scourging, destruction, rape and murder that is the plight of all those who faith to convert????

he Quran show time and time again that we are only tolerated if we serve a purpose, such as payment of extortion for our safety and livilihood, or by being publically punished, or by being second class citicizens such as what happened to the Christians and Jews in the Holy City of Jeruselum [the Christians were persequeted and thrown out on Christmas around 1974{?]}.

So l am not convinced at all that the Jihad of the Terrorist training camps, and the Jihad of the UK 's terrorist cells, or the Jihad's that have proclaimed that they are following the teachings of the Quran in murdering Journalists, are the Jihad's of peace.
T

 

[humanbeing]

Neither video represents mainstream. Obviously some Christians and Muslims harbor extremely intolerant viewpoints. Its troubling that adults would teach children intolerance and hate.

That's precisely the point I wanted to make...

I was referring of course to the rewards offered by chance of birth, if you are a Jihad Muslim male you are entitled to these things as justified by the teachings of ISLAM ala Quran, and it you are unfortunate enough to be a female, you are subject to this treatment and so the burkas really work to cover bruising...

I don't know a great deal about the doctrine or writings or whatever, of Muslim religion or Christian religion, but let me add something...

If you follow Christianity to the most extreme viewpoints, you'd might never believe the universe was more than a billion years old, or that our current understanding suggests something like the big bang for the origins of the universe. Nowadays though, the pope interprets the big bang and his religion, and how they relate to each other, as 'not at odds' with each other. By the same token, or perhaps not, many muslims of today may not cover their wives in bruises, or the wives may not wear a burka. I know some women who voluntarily became muslims and sure, many of them wear weird looking clothes (cloths wrapped around their heads and what not) and they are not beaten. But whatever...

Anyways, I've heard of some 'devout christians' who believed they were entitled, under god, to take the virginity of and impregnate, all of girls and women in their communes. I've also read about the crusades, where people were massacred in the name of Christendom...

Maybe they are wrong in figuring they could do that? I'd say yup. Is there room for change even if the doctrine says that is all right, or if it could be interpreted [even in the most vague of ways] as justifying such things? Probably...

(sorry about the italics, it's not letting me unclick it for some reason)

Anyways, we can continue from there, but I'll just leave it at that for now.

 

[earth_as_one]

Interesting earth, to see your take on Jihad as an inner struggle rather than any doctorines of the Quranic teachings.

The Jihad was the self-title of the Terrorists that began in the eyes of most people after the murder of thousands of innocent people and destruction of 9/11. As we watched the joyful celebrations of Muslims' in many countries of the east, we were treated to the Muslim leader who officially announced the declaration of war on the Western World and explained how all Muslims' were called by the laws of Islam to the JIHAD movement. Taken literally. Since then l have seen a few, very few Isamic clerics say that this struggle is spiritual and define it as the struggle between the spirit and the teachings of the Quran.

So when you look at the teachings of the Quran we are again looking at these issues, that are brought to literal life, by examples such as the video l am showing.

So how do you explain how the Jihad is about peace?

and how does this peaceful existance that supports the education of innocent children while supporting the teachings of the Quran?

Since Jihad is an Islamic term, I'll side with the Muslim scholars regarding its meaning.

Jihad: the effort/struggle to improve yourself, the world and/or please God/Allah.

A "Jihad" could involve warfare, but only if the effort/struggle is to improve yourself, the world and/or please God.

 

[northstar]

While this thread is about a child's education and how this needs to be addressed in order to find a lasting peace in the Middle-EAST, the Pro-Jihad Muslim supporters can't come up with truthful relivant arguments in regard to the facts that exist today where children are being taught hatred.

The phenomenon of the Jihad Muslims’ to engage in a struggle to honor Allah is 1,400 years old, and is from the Quran in which it is claimed repeatedly that those who don’t believe in Allah and his prophet Mohammad are perversely rejecting the truth and considered evil.

The Prophet Mohammad and Allah are being insulted and disrespectful by those who are not converting and this insult, being the greatest of all insults imaginable, must be avenged [in the Jihad Muslim's mind, according to the Quranic teachings}.


The Muslims are then taught that the insult can be removed by extorting, converting or murdering the Non-Muslims. [ie. ‘Announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve” {quran 9:3}

Let’s look at the source of the Quran, and the irrational self-serving war lord named Mohammed who set about in the 7th century to re-writing the true law of Islam, which is Christianity , as found in the Bible and the Torah.

The self-proclaimed ‘prophet” made up and elaborated a set of rules that fed a lifestyle that fed personal ambition, greed, hatred and unlimited sex with whomever he wanted.

After his death, taking these rules as being very self-serving in the criminal minds of power hungry deviant rulers, thse writings of Mohammad were looked at seriously. It is with strategy, to take over lands and force slavery and increase power that Islamic doctrines were made, following the tyranty of Mohammad, and the rulebook for the Jihads verses Infidels was born.

To ensure that their perfect plan for domination was complete these criminal tyrants created the instructions for abuse of non-Muslims and claimed the Quran to be the last and only ‘revelation’ of God to the world, and any further writings, thoughts or new interpretations would cause the persons involved public torture and death.

Today the Quran is alive and well, protected by the Jihad inspired deception that it is not intolerant and is not violent. However, with the global events ever escalating in devious action, intolerant anti-social behaviour, and plots of murderous destruction in our very communities, the truth of Jihad Islamism is coming to light.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/192865326X/serbiannacom

Defeating Jihad: How the War on Terrorism Can Be Won - in Spite of Ourselves
Serge Trifkovic is a former BBC commentator and US News and World Report reporter. He is currently the foreign desk editor Chronicles Of Culture. His last book The Sword Of The Prophet (also from ROP), has sold more than 50,000 copies and has been a main selection of the Conservative Book Club. Defeating Jihad is the sequel.

Jihad is an integral part of the Islamic teaching and tradition, which mandates violence against the so-called infidels as a means of pursuing the objective of a global “Dar-al-Islam,” the world of faith.
Jihad is an integral concept to the division of the world, in the Islamic tradition, into two parts.

One is Dar-al-Islam, and the other is Dar-al-Harb, the world of war. There is an inherent tension between the two. Jihad is the means by which the world of faith advances against the world of war.

The paradigm is in fact very similar to the Manichean, black-and-white division of the world in the mindset of Bolsheviks and Marxists. In other words, it “us” and “them.”

Ultimately it is the issue of who gets whom, kto-kogo. It is extremely important to understand the primary problem of Islam, which is its latent tension with its surroundings, its constant ambition to conquer and convert “the Other” to itself.

In fact there is mandated violence for the faithful as a means of spreading this conquest. Once this fundamental issue is clarified in the minds of the Western public, than of course it would be much easier to present the issue of Kosovo and Bosnia and Herzegovina in a different light.

For as long as this fundamental problem remains politically incorrect to mention, and discuss openly, it is simply impossible to have a viable defense.

That is the purpose of both of my books: to open the eyes to the public to the problem that is real, that has been with us for over 13 centuries.

It will not go away by us wishing it to go away.

It will only be worse for a long as the Western world and non-Muslim world is oblivious that we are in a clash of civilizations.
http://www.serbianna.com/books/ads/trifkovic.shtml

 

[Sassylassie]

Scary stuff Northstar, when I read quotes from the Koran I find it hard to comprehend that we are told it's a religion of peace. I look around the world and see that the Extremist are interperting the Koran to the extreme and twisting so much of it to feed their perverted and cruel egos. They really hate women don't they, I wonder why, Allah seemed extremely fond of women even children.

 

[Chukcha]

Scary stuff Northstar, when I read quotes from the Koran I find it hard to comprehend that we are told it's a religion of peace. I look around the world and see that the Extremist are interperting the Koran to the extreme and twisting so much of it to feed their perverted and cruel egos. They really hate women don't they, I wonder why, Allah seemed extremely fond of women even children.

Abraham had two sons - Ismail (who became the head of the arabs later) and Isaak (the head of the jews), Islmail was not accepted by the God, mainly because of his angry and dirty behaviour, especially towards women...