Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense?

[moghrabi]

President George W. Bush has got a very serious problem. Before asking Congress for a Joint Resolution authorizing the use of American military forces in Iraq, he made a number of unequivocal statements about the reason the United States needed to pursue the most radical actions any nation can undertake - acts of war against another nation.

Now it is clear that many of his statements appear to be false. In the past, Bush's White House has been very good at sweeping ugly issues like this under the carpet, and out of sight. But it is not clear that they will be able to make the question of what happened to Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) go away - unless, perhaps, they start another war.

That seems unlikely. Until the questions surrounding the Iraqi war are answered, Congress and the public may strongly resist more of President Bush's warmaking.

Presidential statements, particularly on matters of national security, are held to an expectation of the highest standard of truthfulness. A president cannot stretch, twist or distort facts and get away with it. President Lyndon Johnson's distortions of the truth about Vietnam forced him to stand down from reelection. President Richard Nixon's false statements about Watergate forced his resignation.

Frankly, I hope the WMDs are found, for it will end the matter. Clearly, the story of the missing WMDs is far from over. And it is too early, of course, to draw conclusions. But it is not too early to explore the relevant issues.

cont..........

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Is Lying About The Re

Impeach him. He didn't just lie, he lied to start an illegal war.

 

[moghrabi]

RE: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

It is a known fact. I hope to God to see this moron sitting in an Abu Ghraib jail and pictures taken of him with his underwear.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

RE: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

thanks for the law link. (good stuff)

In addition to the lies, what is also urksome ...is that he actually said (when we and others asked for proof of his claims) that he did not have to provide proof. ( or close to that) As if we (the collective we) were supposed to simply take his word for it. (sheesh, talk about a "God" complex.)

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

None of you realize that every world leader said the same things Bush said 5 years before the war about Saddam?

Every member of the Clinton administration warned of the danger, even passing a "REGIME CHANGE" resolution carried by a majority of the Democratic Party.

Even Chirac warned Saddam. Even Schroeder of Deutschland too.

You look at all of the quotes of all of the leaders during the late 90s before Bush even got the Presidency in 2000.

Big Amnesia.

And all of you who thought the containment of embargo plan could have worked, well, I guess there's amnesia on that score too, because France led with Germany and Russia on a campaign to say the containment embargo should be lifted, heh heh, so the bidding of big business could carry on in the open.

But once the lies of war commanded front stage, all those who were working to lift the embargo wanted to say the embargo was working after all !!!

Ayyeeee carrrumba, all led, orchestrated by a "dissembler."

oh.

The sphincter quickens.

Sorry.

 

[Toro]

RE: Is Lying About The Re

Whether or not its an impeachable offence is one thing. Whether its going to happen is another. As long as the GOP controls both houses - and frankly, as long as American troops are in Iraq - there's zero chance of it happening.

In a court of law, you would have to show intent to deceive, that he knowingly knew there was no weapons of mass destruction but lied about it anyways. There may have been evidence there was none at the time, but that simply isn't good enough if there was evidence suggesting there was WMD. But impeachment is at least partly political, as it was with Slick Willie.

I'm actually surprised this is still an issue. There is very little talk about it in the States. I think most people accept the fact that there weren't WMD.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Off

And all of you who thought the containment of embargo plan could have worked, well, I guess there's amnesia on that score too, because France led with Germany and Russia on a campaign to say the containment embargo should be lifted, heh heh, so the bidding of big business could carry on in the open.

But once the lies of war commanded front stage, all those who were working to lift the embargo wanted to say the embargo was working after all !!!

Yet before the war, the embargo was killing children.

And during the Kuwait war, an embargo was what we should have used to get Saddam out of Kuwait instead of a war.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Off

And all of you who thought the containment of embargo plan could have worked, well, I guess there's amnesia on that score too, because France led with Germany and Russia on a campaign to say the containment embargo should be lifted, heh heh, so the bidding of big business could carry on in the open.

But once the lies of war commanded front stage, all those who were working to lift the embargo wanted to say the embargo was working after all !!!

Yet before the war, the embargo was killing children.

And during the Kuwait war, an embargo was what we should have used to get Saddam out of Kuwait instead of a war.

I wonder why there was a support for the Gulf War by the UN and most countries.

 

[annabattler]

RE: Is Lying About The Re

There'll be no impeachment hearings....Americans seem to get more excited,and moral, about the sexual antics of their presidents than they do about a war,declared halfway around the world,against a man who was once the 'friend" of the United States.

 

[moghrabi]

Re: RE: Is Lying About The Re

There'll be no impeachment hearings....Americans seem to get more excited,and moral, about the sexual antics of their presidents than they do about a war,declared halfway around the world,against a man who was once the 'friend" of the United States.

You got it on the head. Lewinsky made more news in the ORAL Office than all of children dead in Iraq. That SUCKS.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Is Lying About The Re

What happened with Lewinsky was that the GOP ran a campaign until they got their way. There is no reason why the Democrats can't do the same. After the mid-term elections Bush can be impeached.

 

[mps]

Re: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

It doesn't matter what every other world leader was saying about Saddam and Iraq; point of fact, Bush is the one who made the decision. I don't think anyone is disputing whether Saddam was a tyrannical dictator, but rather, why the US specifically chose 2002 to invade.

The build-up was about WMD, which turned up empty, and now the administration has said that they are abandoning the search. So clearly, the WMD saga is over. There aren't any, and the blunder can be passed off as an intelligence failure - which, I think, is the archetype for the war in general.

How does one prove that Bush lied? You would have to demonstrate that the information he gave to congress was deliberately false, and not simply bad intelligence. Many cabinent ministers knew the information was false, and I'm sure that they would have passed that information upwards, but it's still a sketchy issue.

These two links demonstrate what the Administration said:

Iraq connected with 9/11
Aluminum tubes

These two links demonstrate that the Administration purposely lied in those instances:

9/11 Connection Lie
Aluminum Tubes Lie

And then of course there's this:

Saddam Threat Lie by Colin Powell himself.

For me the issue is closed; Bush presented information that he knew was false. Some people don't see it that way, for some reason that escapes me at the moment. They prefer to view their President as an idiot who is easily swayed by blatantly false claims. I don't know which is worse to have, a moronic president who can't think for himself, or a huuuuge asshole.

P.S. Impeach him.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

P.S. Impeach him.

ditto that.

(nice posting, and welcome to this little neck of the internet)

 

[mps]

RE: Is Lying About The Re

Thank you.

 

[Canucklehead]

Re: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

In a word... youbetyourassitis :lol

It's such a shame that Baby Bush won't be vacationing in the Great White North after his presidency comes to an end. Seeing him possibly detained and charged as a war criminal under Canadian Law would be a global moral victory. Adding insult to injury would be that we'd send him off to the Hague to be tried by the very court he refuses to acknowledge :twisted: :twisted:

Oh, and please, the last thing anyone needs to see on the web (or tv) would be pics of Bush in his tighty whities *puke*

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

There is very little talk about it in the States. I think most people accept the fact that there weren't WMD.

interesting, as what that means is that most people think it is just fine-or at least accept) to LIE about invading another nation, killing many of its population, leaving many maimed and crippled for life, destroying the infrastructure , and torturing the Iraqi prisoners. (and all that other ugly stuff that has happened since)

interesting ethical/moral standard. :twisted:

 

[mps]

Re: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

Most conflicts that America finds herself involved in were entered, in part, based on a lie. I don't see this as a new trend, but rather an existing problem that has yet to be addressed.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

Most conflicts that America finds herself involved in were entered, in part, based on a lie. I don't see this as a new trend, but rather an existing problem that has yet to be addressed.

this is quite true. Maybe the difference now is that due to the information (age) explosion.....collectively "we" are more aware of it . It seems more blatant now.

 

[Toro]

Re: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

There is very little talk about it in the States. I think most people accept the fact that there weren't WMD.

interesting, as what that means is that most people think it is just fine-or at least accept) to LIE about invading another nation, killing many of its population, leaving many maimed and crippled for life, destroying the infrastructure , and torturing the Iraqi prisoners. (and all that other ugly stuff that has happened since)

interesting ethical/moral standard. :twisted:

I don't think the American people think its okay to lie. But the American people see the invasion of Iraq far differently than you do. Americans see it as a war that disposed a brutal dictator who, according to Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, was responsible for the disappearance of 250,000 people, who started two wars, who gassed his own people, who tortured athletes, tortured children in front of their parents, who paid families of young, dead suicide bombers in Israel, etc. Americans see it as a war of liberation from tyranny (As do the Kurds. The best line in the movie Kilometre Zero, screened at the Cannes Film Festival, was when the main Kurdish character turns to the screen and yells "Saddam fell! We are free! And you in Europe didn't care!)

That doesn't mean its a popular war because its not. Nor does it mean they believe absolutely that Bush made the right decision, because Americans aren't sure. But digging up new documents about the lack of WMD is old news. It isn't going to amount to squat. Maybe its cathartic but calling for Bush's impeachment is a waste of time because it ain't going to happen.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: Is Lying About The Reason For War An Impeachable Offense

But digging up new documents about the lack of WMD is old news. It isn't going to amount to squat. Maybe its cathartic but calling for Bush's impeachment is a waste of time because it ain't going to happen.

you're probably right. But it does present an "interesting" perspective of the US mentality. (or better put.....confirms it) It seems that it is ok to break the law (international law ) or deny its existence (unless it suits the US) , it is acceptable to spew a big lie (give it whatever euphamism the US likes to come up with)in order to achieve a supposedly "higher mission"......while behind the scenes the benefit US oriented. It also indicates clearly that credibility, integrety and truth has little value in the overall ethical standard in the US mindset.

re: the line from the movie. Sounds like propaganda. following the bush line.

What is Iraq supposed to do?? be eternally indebted to the US for "freeing" them from a dictator by killing many of their population, crippling many, "securing " their natural resources ,destroying /ruining many of the fine buildings of Iraqi history , and holding their population in prisons without any legal council.???

You see , there is a certain psychology here that the US mindset is missing entirely. On the other hand, maybe this is all part of their lust for power. "Freeing "the Iraqis from the previous regime also gains a major powerhold in the ME.

Just as bush will not be impeached, the US will NOT leave Iraq. The US is in Iraq to stay via massive military bases and behind the scenes continued influence on the Iraqi gov't. (claiming that the new gov't is too young and inexperienced to handle things on their own.(so big brother must stay to "assist" Yet Iraq is a much older nation, with a long history /culture, as compared to the youth (and arrogance) of the US.

The operative question that remains now: Do the Iraqis WANT this type of situation??? IF so, then more power to them. But "freeing " them from the previous regime does NOT connote /or guarentee Iraqi INDEPENDANCE. There is no real freedom without independance. So how much choice will Iraq have in decisions etc as time goes on.

btw: I have a very good understanding of how the US mind works. and how they can manipulate themselves into believing what they want to believe and minimizing what they consider unimportant. ....while emphasizing what is in their favor or suits them.

so none of this is a big surprise. But I have to admit, that this Iraq issue was a bit more extreme than one would have expected from the US. Maybe the core fibre of the US has evolved into something more extremist along the way.

just some thoughts on this