Is it time to abolish parliament?

atlanticaparty

Electoral Member
Aug 19, 2006
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Parliament has worked pretty well for Canada for the last 140 years. It isn't perfect but name a government in the world that is. You want to abolish parliament as well as the senate? What would you replace them with? Or would you leave the country in the charge of the bureaucrats without any control? I think you have to work on your plan a bit.

Again the intent of the question is to replace parliament (and the senate) with absolutely nothing. Since parliament (and remember parliament is not the government) in Canada is completely ineffective why not just get rid of it and stop the charade?

How has parliament worked well for Canada?
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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There are many advantages to abolishing parliament (and the senate):
1. Save many tens of millions of dollars a year, over 100 million for MP salaries and expenses alone, (salaries, staff, offices, travel, The Library, … ) Money that could be put towards programs for poorer Canadians.
2. Speed the implementation of bills by allowing smaller committees of only civil servants and ruling party members to hash out policy.
3. Help the PMO and ruling party focus more on policy, less on politics.
4. Free the media (and the public) from having to focus on parliament and the senate.
5. A more effective elimination process for private-member bills and opposition motions not supported by the PMO and the ruling party; they simply never occur.
6. Raise the standard of politics by eliminating the ineffectual debates in parliament and the senate.
7. Allows for fewer active members of the majority party since backbenchers are no longer needed.
8. It frees the government from stall tactics and criticism by the opposition until the next election.
9. Allows the PMO and the ruling party to finally consolidate power allowing more efficient governance.
10. Opposition MPs and senators would be freed to return to a more productive private life.
11. The parliamentary buildings could be put to a more useful role.

Abolishing parliament seems a logical step for our current system, doesn’t it?

So you think we should live in a dictatorship?

I'm with Winston Churchill, Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others. By streamlining government to make it easier for one party or man to rule you'd effectively remove the checks and balances that protect our freedoms.

This is exactly the same rhetoric that was used to justify the assumption of power by the Nazis in the mid thirties. They claimed it was neccessary to remove the democratic institutions because they were inefficient and corrupt. For a while Hitler was able to make it appear his control of Germany was good for the country. By the time the reality of the situation set in, it was too late.

I don't care how qualified a leader or party appears, they don't have all the answers for all the people. Power also corrupts and if we give one individual or group total power as you're advising the end result is going to be even more corruption and abuse of power.

I can't believe someone is even suggesting this. Learn your history to see what sort of result this kind of consolidation of power has had in countries like Germany, Japan and the Soviet Union in the last century. There's a reason Democracies are still around. They may be messy, but they offer the best compromise for long-term stabilty for a society.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Again the intent of the question is to replace parliament (and the senate) with absolutely nothing. Since parliament (and remember parliament is not the government) in Canada is completely ineffective why not just get rid of it and stop the charade?

How has parliament worked well for Canada?

Ineffective for who?

The whole idea behind Parliment is spread representation as widely as possible. You're saying we should put control in just a few hands.

I think more power needs to be returned to individual members of Parliment. Parties should stop forcing their members to vote certain ways and leaders like Harper shouldn't have the right to control the freedom of speech of MPs. The whole point in sending people to Parliment is to give a voice to the electorate.

This is and elitist idea and has no place in a Democracy IMO. If you want to live in a dictatorship, move to Zimbabwe or some place like that and then decide how good an idea it is.

Edit- This isn't really about Parliment anyway is it??? It's about a Harper government that has betrayed the Canadian public and made this country even less democratic than it was under the Liberals. I can see how a Harper supporter would be suggesting the elimination of Parliment. It's the only way for Harper to stay in power because he's going to be decimated in the next election.
 
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atlanticaparty

Electoral Member
Aug 19, 2006
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Ineffective for who?

The whole idea behind Parliment is spread representation as widely as possible. You're saying we should put control in just a few hands.

I think more power needs to be returned to individual members of Parliment. Parties should stop forcing their members to vote certain ways and leaders like Harper shouldn't have the right to control the freedom of speech of MPs. The whole point in sending people to Parliment is to give a voice to the electorate.

This is and elitist idea and has no place in a Democracy IMO. If you want to live in a dictatorship, move to Zimbabwe or some place like that and then decide how good an idea it is.

Edit- This isn't really about Parliment anyway is it??? It's about a Harper government that has betrayed the Canadian public and made this country even less democratic than it was under the Liberals. I can see how a Harper supporter would be suggesting the elimination of Parliment. It's the only way for Harper to stay in power because he's going to be decimated in the next election.

Parliament is ineffective because it does not oversee and restrain the government.
That is what a parliament does.

The point of the question (abolish parliament) is to indicate that 'control in just a few hands' existes currently.

Should more power be returned to individual members of Parliment? Of course.

Parties should stop forcing their members to vote certain ways and leaders like Harper shouldn't have the right to control the freedom of speech of MPs? Absolutely.

The whole point in sending people to Parliment is to give a voice to the electorate? Yes.

This is an elitist idea and has no place in a Democracy IMO. You are right.

It sounds like you desire political reform.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Parliament is ineffective because it does not oversee and restrain the government.
That is what a parliament does.

The point of the question (abolish parliament) is to indicate that 'control in just a few hands' existes currently.

Should more power be returned to individual members of Parliment? Of course.

Parties should stop forcing their members to vote certain ways and leaders like Harper shouldn't have the right to control the freedom of speech of MPs? Absolutely.

The whole point in sending people to Parliment is to give a voice to the electorate? Yes.

This is an elitist idea and has no place in a Democracy IMO. You are right.

It sounds like you desire political reform.

Parliment does oversee the government, what do you think all the debate you've been complaining about is over. In the British Parlimentary system it's the role of the opposition to question the governing party. By eliminating Parliment there would be no restraint on government at all. You'd effectively be giving the party in power absolute control.

How does eliminating Parliment give individual MPs more power, you were talking about getting rid of most MPs.

There wouldn't be any freedom of speech if your plan went ahead because we wouldn't have a forum for it. The governing party line would be the only one.

I was wrong, this isn't an elitist idea, it's a fascist one and is an insult to the thousands of Canadians who died fighting against that evil.

What you're suggesting isn't reform, it's a revolution against the real governing power in Canada, IT"S PEOPLE.
 

atlanticaparty

Electoral Member
Aug 19, 2006
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www.atlanticaparty.ca
Parliment does oversee the government, what do you think all the debate you've been complaining about is over. In the British Parlimentary system it's the role of the opposition to question the governing party. By eliminating Parliment there would be no restraint on government at all. You'd effectively be giving the party in power absolute control.

How does eliminating Parliment give individual MPs more power, you were talking about getting rid of most MPs.

There wouldn't be any freedom of speech if your plan went ahead because we wouldn't have a forum for it. The governing party line would be the only one.

I was wrong, this isn't an elitist idea, it's a fascist one and is an insult to the thousands of Canadians who died fighting against that evil.

What you're suggesting isn't reform, it's a revolution against the real governing power in Canada, IT"S PEOPLE.

Does our parliament have the power to vote no on bills sent to it by the executive/governing party?
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Does our parliament have the power to vote no on bills sent to it by the executive/governing party?

Are you even Canadian?

The governing party is part of Parliment, you should know that.

My guess is you're an American posing as a Canadian. We don't have an executive branch here like you do in the states. The governing party is the one that holds the most seats in Parliment or can form a coalition with a majority of votes.

So you can see how stupid your idea is on practical terms. If we did away with our Parliment we wouldn't have any government.

Stop wasting our time with your games.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Republics don't have parliaments. Unitary states don't necessarily have parliaments. Autocracies don't necessarily have parliaments. Etc.

This isn't about converting to another form of democracy, it's about doing away with the Parlimentary system we have now. It's been working for 140 years and is one of the stablest governments in the world.

The person who started this thread clearly doesn't understand our political system or they wouldn't being refering to our executive branch. Whatever their motive is I think it's highly unlikely they're concerned about the rights or well-being of Canadians.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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I see what you mean now. (Bulb gets a bit dim now and then.)
Anyway, in spite of working for 140 years, I think we could do much better with a direct democracy in a republic similar to something the Swiss have. Canadian politicians are out-of-touch with the public and for the most part, power greedy. In Switzerland, it is the people that have the reins.
 

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
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you guys dont think you're over governed? local gov, state/provincial gov, federal gov....
local answers to state/provincial, do away with federal and state/provincial answers to the people
federal politics, remembering that ....
: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.
eats up most of tax payers contributions anmd gives what in return? funding cuts?
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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I see what you mean now. (Bulb gets a bit dim now and then.)
Anyway, in spite of working for 140 years, I think we could do much better with a direct democracy in a republic similar to something the Swiss have. Canadian politicians are out-of-touch with the public and for the most part, power greedy. In Switzerland, it is the people that have the reins.

I'd like to see a more direct democracy here too. With all the advances in communication technology you'd think we'd be able to vote online on important issues. I agree about our politicians, they spend way to much time worrying about their own interests. I think if more peole got involved in grassroots politics, where the candidates are chosen, the quality of our politicians would go up.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
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you guys dont think you're over governed? local gov, state/provincial gov, federal gov....
local answers to state/provincial, do away with federal and state/provincial answers to the people
federal politics, remembering that ....
: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.
eats up most of tax payers contributions anmd gives what in return? funding cuts?

What about the private sector, there's just as much corruption and larceny there. The jerks that were running Enron were just the tip of the iceberg. It's easy to blame politicians for all the problems because they're more visible targets. I'd worry more about the people behind the scenes you never see, pulling the strings.

Bill Clinton said it best close to the end of his Presidency when he refered to himself as a "virtual president". The sad fact is the people who are really in charge are not even elected.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
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50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
I'd like to see a more direct democracy here too. With all the advances in communication technology you'd think we'd be able to vote online on important issues. I agree about our politicians, they spend way to much time worrying about their own interests. I think if more peole got involved in grassroots politics, where the candidates are chosen, the quality of our politicians would go up.
Yeah, could be. I also think if you pay peanuts, you employ monkeys. Can the benefits and give a salary comparable to private companies' salaries and there would be competent people vying for political positions. As it sits, they scramble for the power and settle for 6 years of "work" whereafter they can retire with a pretty nice retirement package. http://www.canada.com/national/feat....html?id=dae9107b-6aac-4b2a-99f3-90e0298a4e20
 

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
3,924
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Australia
quote>>>What about the private sector, there's just as much corruption and larceny there. The jerks that were running Enron were just the tip of the iceberg. It's easy to blame politicians for all the problems because they're more visible targets. I'd worry more about the people behind the scenes you never see, pulling the strings.<<< quote
who governs private sector?

quote>>>Bill Clinton said it best close to the end of his Presidency when he refered to himself as a "virtual president". The sad fact is the people who are really in charge are not even elected.<<<<quote

ever wondered why here in Canada you're "encouraged" to "vote" with a pencil?
 

El Barto

les fesses a l'aire
Feb 11, 2007
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Mulroney tried to do that when freshly elected . That was to fire all the goverment workers that are there permanantly. he hired them back why? never heard why.
 

atlanticaparty

Electoral Member
Aug 19, 2006
115
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www.atlanticaparty.ca
Are you even Canadian?

The governing party is part of Parliment, you should know that.

My guess is you're an American posing as a Canadian. We don't have an executive branch here like you do in the states. The governing party is the one that holds the most seats in Parliment or can form a coalition with a majority of votes.

So you can see how stupid your idea is on practical terms. If we did away with our Parliment we wouldn't have any government.

Stop wasting our time with your games.

All of us are Canadians.
Parliament is NOT the government. The prime minister with the ministers of each department sitting in the cabinet plus the civil service is the government (ie the executive). They sit in parliament but that does not make parliament the government. The idea is for this executive structure to remain but do away with the currently ineffective parlimentary structure ending the charade.

The intent of asking this question is show how ineffective parliament really is, things would be pretty much the same without parliament (we don't actually want to abolish parliament, you see the point?)

The concept of an independent executive is a british one, not american.That is were they got the idea from.
 

atlanticaparty

Electoral Member
Aug 19, 2006
115
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www.atlanticaparty.ca
This isn't about converting to another form of democracy, it's about doing away with the Parlimentary system we have now. It's been working for 140 years and is one of the stablest governments in the world.

The person who started this thread clearly doesn't understand our political system or they wouldn't being refering to our executive branch. Whatever their motive is I think it's highly unlikely they're concerned about the rights or well-being of Canadians.

It has been working, but working well?

As to the second part, you havn't done your research by even scanning our website or policies.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
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All of us are Canadians.
Parliament is NOT the government. The prime minister with the ministers of each department sitting in the cabinet plus the civil service is the government (ie the executive). They sit in parliament but that does not make parliament the government. The idea is for this executive structure to remain but do away with the currently ineffective parlimentary structure ending the charade.

The intent of asking this question is show how ineffective parliament really is, things would be pretty much the same without parliament (we don't actually want to abolish parliament, you see the point?)

The concept of an independent executive is a british one, not american.That is were they got the idea from.

Like I said, if you were actually a Canadian you'd realize how stupid what you're saying is. The government is part of Parliment and doesn't exist outside of it. It's answerable to Parliment and can be brought down by a vote of non-confidence by a majority of it's members. The power in our system resides in Parliment, not in an executive and Congress like you have in the states.

Our Parliment is no more inefficient than your government and has kept us out of disasters like the Iraq war that your government allowed itself to be walked into.

The British system does not and never has had an executive branch, it's a constitutional monarchy. Something you'd know if you really were a Canadian.
 
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