Is it moral for God to punish us?

[selfsame]

"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18 NIV)

These are not the words of the Christ.
Fear is an important motive: for disciplining and for avoiding dangers and for avoiding the evil or hurt.
No contradiction with love: I love God very much, and yet I fear and dread Him; although He does not wrong anyone, but I fear His justice and hope for His forgiveness and mercy.

I also remember the Christ warned them of the chattering of teeth or something like that.

 

[MHz]

Show facts and not delusional thinking. That is how you teach something new.


You know that all you have is your delusion.


Regards
DL

That isn't what a rebuttal looks like.

 

[selfsame]

Those who regard God as Punisher do so in fear. Fear of this kind is a dark gift. It is exposed and rejected in the light of Christ.

This is a historic story: When Tatar and Mogol invaded the Islamic world (as a punishment of course, just like the setting of Jews and Christians on Muslims now)

Anyhow, when Tatar and Mogol invaded the Muslim countries, then they became Muslims, but most of them of course did not understand the true meaning of the Islam and the Quran,

just like the Western people now: they speak badly about the Quran, while they actually do not understand it, and actually they try to block their minds lest they should understand it: i.e. they fear to know its essence.

Then when Tatar and Mogol converted they came with a new wave of invasion: they became Muslims, but they kept with their ways of transgression.
So they came to a city in Syria.

There was a righteous Muslim scholar; it is a nice story, but I know you don't like long stories.

Anyhow, a righteous man went to the Mogol leader who was a Muslim, and said to him: "If you are a true Muslim, you must not fight the other Muslims, because you will go to Hell."
The Mogol said: "What is Hell? They only tell me of Paradise and its prosperity."
The righteous man: "No, there is a Hell for the transgressor" and he went on explaining to him, until he was convinced and took his army and went away.

 

[AnnaG]

Your thread topic concerns God and punishment, DL.

I have never yet met a believer who regards God as Punisher. Savior, Sanctifier, Healer and Coming King, yes. But never, Punisher.

Those who regard God as Punisher do so in fear. Fear of this kind is a dark gift. It is exposed and rejected in the light of Christ.

"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18 NIV)

Unfortunately, your god punishes babies and young kids even before they have a chance to sin. If it does not actively punish them, it does so by indifference. So there is good reason to fear the sociopathic creep.
And yes, I have heard all kinds of excuses for that sociopathy. They are all feeble.

 

[MHz]

Where did you get concept from?
A name is entered into the book of life at conception rather than when a child comes out of the womb. That is more in line with being given a specific name.

Lu:1:44:
For,
lo,
as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears,
the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

 

[AnnaG]

I love God very much, and yet I fear and dread Him; although He does not wrong anyone, but I fear His justice and hope for His forgiveness and mercy.

As I said, there is good reason to fear your god. It puts some babies and young kids through absolute misery before they give up and die. If it does not do this actively, it does nothing to stop their misery. So what you call mercy and forgiveness have different meanings than I have for forgiveness and mercy.

Where did you get concept from?
A name is entered into the book of life at conception rather than when a child comes out of the womb. That is more in line with being given a specific name.

Lu:1:44:
For,
lo,
as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears,
the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

huh?

 

[MHz]

Book of Life, name entered by somebody called 'the God of the Living', any questions?

 

[French Patriot]

Where did you get concept from?
A name is entered into the book of life at conception rather than when a child comes out of the womb. That is more in line with being given a specific name.

Lu:1:44:
For,
lo,
as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears,
the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."


God also hated Esau in the womb.


Regards
DL

 

[AnnaG]

Book of Life, name entered by somebody called 'the God of the Living', any questions?

Yeah. Question: what are you talking about?

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."[/FONT]
God also hated Esau in the womb.

Regards
DL

Oh, I see. Then what is the sin that these fertilized eggs are guilty of? Unbelief? There are no brain cells yet at that stage of life. This a$$hole god might as well ask rocks to believe.

 

[French Patriot]

I love God very much,

.

You know little of love if you can say that.


You have heard in St. James that Jesus said that we would know his people of faith by their works and deeds.


I think the same applies to love.


Can love be real without works and deeds and reciprocity?


Do you not need to show your wife you love her by works and deeds and to make your love a true love, does she not have to return your love by her works and deeds for you?


Regards
DL

 

[MHz]

Yeah. Question: what are you talking about?

Oh, I see. Then what is the sin that these fertilized eggs are guilty of?

Life begins at conception, if you were conceived you will be part of the group of people that will come alive at the GWT event.
Their parents are sinners because they are considered to be children of Adam and Eve while they were still under the curse of the original sin. Children born in the new earth will not have that to overcome, they will be as children Adam and Eve would have had if sin had not happened.

 

[French Patriot]

Yeah. Question: what are you talking about?

Oh, I see. Then what is the sin that these fertilized eggs are guilty of?

I guess that the only sin must be sexual.


That pesky sperm penetrating that egg and having his evil way with her.


Oh wait. Are sperms not male or female? The sin of lesbianism or fornication.


Pick your poison.


Then again, mens rea, Latein for evil intent, says that they could not have sinned because they could not fathom what sin was without a mind and brain.


Then again, God does not care about guilt. He hates most of us regardless.


Regards
DL

 

[MHz]

Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."


God also hated Esau in the womb.


Regards
DL

That supports my concept, you are aware of that right?

 

[French Patriot]

Life begins at conception, if you were conceived you will be part of the group of people that will come alive at the GWT event.
Their parents are sinners because they are considered to be children of Adam and Eve while they were still under the curse of the original sin. Children born in the new earth will not have that to overcome, they will be as children Adam and Eve would have had if sin had not happened.

Do you mean the sin of not wanting to remain blind and as bright as bricks?


Would you want to stay in that condition of really being stupid?


Regards
DL

That supports my concept, you are aware of that right?
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

No. I was only half reading and I put that to show the immorality of God and thinking that those in the womb are sinners.


Regards
DL

 

[AnnaG]

Life begins at conception, if you were conceived you will be part of the group of people that will come alive at the GWT event.
Their parents are sinners because they are considered to be children of Adam and Eve while they were still under the curse of the original sin. Children born in the new earth will not have that to overcome, they will be as children Adam and Eve would have had if sin had not happened.

Yeah, FP explained that to me. And my reply is that if fertilized eggs are punished for sins that they did not commit, it is as I said before, your god is a sociopath. And in that case, it is extremely immoral. The lunatic cannot even follow its own rules.

Guilt by association. Or guilt by heredity. Either one is extremely unjust and malicious; two qualities that are in definitions of evil.

 

[Twila]

 

[AnnaG]

and blames everyone for Eve's apple consumption. Not too wise, this god.

 

[Twila]

and blames everyone for Eve's apple consumption. Not too wise, this god.

well you have to remember this is the god that created the earth but didn't know it was round.

 

[French Patriot]

well you have to remember this is the god that created the earth but didn't know it was round.

And not to mention that a woman to reproduce with was an afterthought.

Always good to start the day with a laugh. Thanks.

Christians always run from the question of why God put Satan right there beside Eve with a power that was impossible for Eve to resist.


Some stupidly say to test her but God's power running through Satan guarantees a fail.


Regards
DL

 

[MHz]

Yeah, FP explained that to me. And my reply is that if fertilized eggs are punished for sins that they did not commit, it is as I said before, your god is a sociopath. And in that case, it is extremely immoral. The lunatic cannot even follow its own rules.

Guilt by association. Or guilt by heredity. Either one is extremely unjust and malicious; two qualities that are in definitions of evil.

His way all aborted children are resurrected as well as the 25,000 children that die daily due to hunger (sinless). I'm thinking the ones that better worry about if there is a God are the ones that help those stats along.

Christians always run from the question of why God put Satan right there beside Eve with a power that was impossible for Eve to resist.

Some stupidly say to test her but God's power running through Satan guarantees a fail.

Regards
DL

Adam gave Eve her instructions rather than it being God. That is a less than perfect solution so it broke at the weakest link. Has Adam been married when he was receiving instruction the Eve would have resisted the sin. Satan and all Angels could roam about Eden except for the garden area and that came under a different law than angelic beings were under. Angels are older so they are smarter, that is the way it works.

One other 'comment' has God thinking the earth is flat. Here is a tidbit that God did include that seems to have been missed. In Jer:25 all nations on the whole earth are included in a violent judgment coming from above. The 4th seal happens to 1/4 of the earth will come under stress. 1/4 of the earth just happens to be all the land area so it can be referenced as in 'inhabitable parts' of the earth and both statement come into agreement that all nations are judges as they all fit in 25% of the earth's surface.