The Qur'an does not grant women equality with men, true.
On this we agree, machjo.
But it certainly does not equate women with animals as you seem to be implying.
Perhaps not. But it does treat a woman as little more than an animal, perhaps one step removed from animals.
Though it does validate a male witness to two female witnesses in certain specific judicial contexts, it says nothing about men being worth two women across the board.
It doesn’t have to. In some instances (witness in Sharia court, when it comes to inheritance etc.) Islam specifically says that one man equals two women. This statement isn’t contradicted anywhere in Koran, nowhere it says in Koran that men and women are equal, except for the specific cases mentioned (witness in court, inheritance etc.). So by implication Islam is saying that one man equals two women.
After all what do you expect, should Koran say in every other sentence that one man equals two women, only then you will believe it? It does say that one man equals two women in some places and it does not contradict that in any other place. That is good enough for me, Islam treats one man equal to two women.
Nor does it say anything about men having to sign for women for loans.
That is the law in many Islamic countries machjo. I assume some Islamic countries (like Taliban) wouldn’t even give loans to women. Those that do, they do require written permission of a man before they will give a loan to a woman.
It by no means treats women the way you're portraying it.
In many Islamic countries women are treated just as I describe.
As far as the way some or perhaps many Arab men treat their women is concerned, that is a purely cultural issue having nada to do with their religion. Sure some Mullahs make silly fatwa’s, but that’s but their interpretation, often politically motivated, and has nothing to do with Islam per se.
Sorry machjo, but that argument won’t wash. Whenever any philosophy (Communism, Christianity, Islam etc.) is discredited in practice, the adherents always yell ‘But they are not really practicing the philosophy, look at what the Holy Book says.’
Well, I don’t’ care what the Holy Book of Communism, Christianity or Islam says. I see how Islam works in practice and judge Islam from that. If ever this Utopian society, which is based on Islam as you describe is formed, we will talk about it.
However, I judge Communism by how it is practiced in USSR, North Korea etc., I judge Christianity from Crusades, Inquisition etc, and I judge Islam by how it is practiced in Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, Taliban, Somalia etc.
I've known many Muslims in my life.
So have I.
And I've met some wonderful Muslims who love their sons, daughters, wives, husbands, mothers, fathers, and friends,
So have I. So what is your point? Individually many Muslims are good people, precisely because they are ‘bad’ Muslims, they don’t take Koran literally. But that does not mean that Islam is a champion of equal rights, civil rights etc. Islam is a very nasty religion. The fact that there are many decent Muslims around takes away from its nastiness, not at all.
