Is Canada under a dictatorship?

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Is Canada under a dictatorship?

The Rev, like much of English Canada, doesn't understand how important provincial powers are to Quebec, and how that their identity is protected by them.

You got it right on!!
Provincial powers are really important to Québec. And we really think we need more!! But what we see, is that we are given less and less. Not radicaly less, but it is the goal. It is federalism, liberalism and capitalism's goal: to centralize everything. It cannot work for everywhere in Canada, and it really doesn't work for Québec!

Waiting for English Canada to understand? Sure it would be awesome and people would maybe reconsider staying in Canada, but it just won't happen. Sorry but Quebecers won't wait for that, I can assure you! We just can't take the risk to wait.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The Rev, like much of English Canada, doesn't understand how important provincial powers are to Quebec, and how that their identity is protected by them.

Oh, I understand that just fine. Granting provincial powers to the level Harper wants to while doing all the other things he wants to do will not be enough to keep Quebec in Canada though.

Invoking the notwithstanding clause to outlaw gay marriage would also be an intrusion into provincial rights in Quebec. So would any attempt to fight bill 101 or otherwise go after language laws. While the Conservatives say that they want more power for the provinces the mean, "Except when Stevie doesn't like it."

Quebec polls highest against further integration with the US. They poll highest against BMD. They poll highest for Kyoto and other environmental matters. Those are all federal matters that will push Quebec away from a federal government run by Harper. Any attempt to to force those things on Quebec will be seen as centralization.

 

[cub1c]

Quebec polls highest against further integration with the US. They poll highest against BMD. They poll highest for Kyoto and other environmental matters. Those are all federal matters that will push Quebec away from a federal government run by Harper.

That is all true and it will stay like that.

But it is not just Harper, Liberals aren't doing enough too! People maybe happy that at least it's not the conservatives, but liberals are no way better. They may be a little more open minded, but not enough for Québec!

 

[Jay]

Oh, I understand that just fine. Granting provincial powers to the level Harper wants to while doing all the other things he wants to do will not be enough to keep Quebec in Canada though.

I have to question your understanding if you use the word "grant", it isn't a grant, it is the law. And if the Feds aren’t going to follow this law then there is no sense in remaining in a nation that doesn't respect your lawful powers.

Invoking the notwithstanding clause to outlaw gay marriage would also be an intrusion into provincial rights in Quebec. So would any attempt to fight bill 101 or otherwise go after language laws.

Isn't Bill 101 protected by the notwithstanding clause, and therefore out of the reach of anyone even Stevie?

Quebec polls highest against further integration with the US.

And they are the furthest against more federalism; they want less, much less.

They poll highest against BMD. They poll highest for Kyoto and other environmental matters. Those are all federal matters that will push Quebec away from a federal government run by Harper.

But these aren’t the issues that divide English and French Canada. I don't see that these issues will force Quebec to separate. More intrusion like a nation day care program will though. In the election he said as much..."why would the Federal government take money from the province of Quebec and turn around and give it back" (not an exact quote) I will tell you why; 2 reasons: That’s how socialists make money, by playing middle men who aren't needed, and secondly its feel good vote buying to a population that was never taught what a provincial power is.

Any attempt to force those things on Quebec will be seen as centralization.

The NDP would do much worst to exasperate the situation....

 

[Reverend Blair]

:roll:

I have to question your understanding if you use the word "grant", it isn't a grant, it is the law. And if the Feds aren’t going to follow this law then there is no sense in remaining in a nation that doesn't respect your lawful powers.

I have to question yours if you insist on over-simplifying to the extent that you do. There is overlap, there are legal precedents, and there are ongoing differences of interpretation. Jurisdictional battles are not simple.

Isn't Bill 101 protected by the notwithstanding clause, and therefore out of the reach of anyone even Stevie?

That won't keep the Conservatives from fighting it though. They have steadfastly complained about the language laws and backed anglophone attempts to strike it down.

And they are the furthest against more federalism; they want less, much less.

And yet Stevie Harper whined like a two year old when a Quebec minister was taken to international meetings to help negotiate. Quebec will, as part of Canada, be bound by any insane agreement that Harper signs with the US. The only way out of that for them is to not be a part of Canada.

But these aren’t the issues that divide English and French Canada.

These are the issues that keep Quebec from supporting, or even trusting, the Conservatives.

The NDP would do much worst to exasperate the situation....

Do you even know what the NDP policy is on Quebec? Do you about the discussion that went on within the party? Do you have a clue what you are talking about?

 

[MMMike]

I have to question yours if you insist on over-simplifying to the extent that you do. There is overlap, there are legal precedents, and there are ongoing differences of interpretation. Jurisdictional battles are not simple.

Of course there is overlap, and it can get messy. What is clear is that the feds are putting more and more into areas that are the provinces' juristiction.

 

[Jay]

It is laid out very clearly in the constitution: education is a provincial power, so is health.

No blurry lines.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Actually it isn't that cut and dried, Jay. There is the Canada Health Act, which has federal requirements. The funding comes from Ottawa to even out financial disparities between provinces, so that comes into play. There are various agreements between the provinces and Ottawa, entered into by both parties.

You want money without strings, you want so much regionalism that it devolves to the level of city-states, not even provinces. You would let some Canadians starve while others become insanely wealthy. Even Quebec isn't for that.

 

[Jay]

You want money without strings, you want so much regionalism that it devolves to the level of city-states, not even provinces. You would let some Canadians starve while others become insanely wealthy. Even Quebec isn't for that.

I don't want money without strings, remember I live in Ontario, so I don't get federal money, we give it, and get some of it back, if were lucky.


As per the constitution....Cities are under the governance of the provinces, there is no power below the provinces, other than that which is directed by the province.

The Canadian health act could not be law without the signatures of the provinces.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The Canadian health act could not be law without the signatures of the provinces.

And they've signed. See how that works?

There are also agreements between natives and the feds...those are international-level treaties, btw. Natives live in various provinces though and the agreements are different. They also have agreements with the provinces, some at the level of international treaties, some at the local level. There are agreements on education, pre and post-secondary, that go along with the federal funding. There are different levels of environmental law, work-place health and safety (some of those are international too), labour legislation, trades qualifications, food quality and labelling requirements...it's a long and complicated list and it all intertwines.

I don't want money without strings, remember I live in Ontario, so I don't get federal money, we give it, and get some of it back, if were lucky.

You sound just like Dalton McGuinty.

 

[Jay]

"And they've signed. See how that works? "

I'm not convinced it is legal for the provinces to transfer their powers to the other body. They are exclusive powers, and are meant to remain that way. Otherwise we would be fighting and threatening to separate like we are now…..


"You sound just like Dalton McGuinty."

Dolton says one right of center thing, and you think I sound like him? He knows he's so screwed that liberals will be feeling the effects of this into the next millennia, so he tries to appeal to the very soft “c”. Good luck Dolty.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I'm not convinced it is legal for the provinces to transfer their powers to the other body.

You don't have to be convinced, the guys in charge are. So are the courts.

 

[Jay]

"the guys in charge are"


And they are splitting up the country.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Is Canada under a dic

Or holding it together

 

[cub1c]

How much are you willing to pay?

Holding it for what? So we can have plenty duplicate program in which tons of money are invested, and almost always without proper studies. Business as usal.

I don't understand why the population has to fight to have more money in their regions. Here in Québec, people in regions have always less and less money, in fact, their ministers always have to fight to not have their budget cut! The same goes for something important to us, that is less important for the rest of the Canada, our culture, Québec's culture! Lot's of Québec's culture comes from the regions, and what is happening now, and I think it is happening across Canada, regions are swallowed by big cities.

Federalism like it is can't work that way. Provinces are mature enough now.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Is Canada under a dic

It goes back to before the Plains of Abraham, Cub1c. It goes back to Europe. It goes back to Mesopotamia and the begining of farming.

We should go for beer sometime.