Is Bush Out of Control?

[Vanni Fucci]

And one really big difference. In Canada, Paul Martin was not actually elected as a Prime Minister, whereas in the US, George Bush was actually elected as the President. At least, the last time I voted, I do not recall a spot on the ballot for Prime Minister. Does anyone else have that option? Thought not.

Ummm...no...

He was appointed President by the US Supreme Court...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore

...and tell me how many Iraqi civilian deaths is Paul Martin responsible for? I can say without any doubt in my mind, that if Stephen Harper were at the helm, there would have been plenty...

 

[no1important]

RE: Is Bush Out of Contro

After the 2004 U.S. Presidential election there were allegations of massive fraud, including but not limited to forging vote totals, miscounting votes for Kerry as votes for Bush, widespread voter intimidation and depriving neighborhoods likely to vote for Kerry of voting machines.

Over 40,000 alleged incidents were reported in the 2004 election, ranging from minor errors to direct voter intimidation, mishandled absentee and provisional ballots, malfunctioning or inaccurate machines and/or apparent hacking and vote tampering.

Very disturbing. Twice he was elected under more than questionable circumstances. Why don't they just use paper ballots everywhere and mark an "X" for their choice? Its nuts that diferent states have diferent rules for voting.

And one really big difference. In Canada, Paul Martin was not actually elected as a Prime Minister

If the liberals did not win the most seats he would not be Prime Minister would he? BTW- Tony Blair is elected the same way as Paul Martin was.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

I find it highly ironic that the Bush Bashers on this forum cannot understand how anyone could elect such a "horrid horrid" man such as George Bush (their words, not mine) and continue to degrade the intelligence of US voters, while at the same time claiming that it is democracy in action when anyone with a right wing attitude on here cannot understand how Paul Martin got elected in Canada.

And then to have the absolute gall to turn around and accuse the right of twisting facts and being brainwashed by propoganda. If it is democracy in Canada, it is democracy in the US too, and just as people on this forum tell the right wingers to live with it because it is "how Canadians feel", perhaps you should take the same advice, because apparently, that is "how US citizens feel."

And one really big difference. In Canada, Paul Martin was not actually elected as a Prime Minister, whereas in the US, George Bush was actually elected as the President. At least, the last time I voted, I do not recall a spot on the ballot for Prime Minister. Does anyone else have that option? Thought not.

hmmm...er ...the topic here is Bush and is he out of control.??? Is the above supposed to be a defense of the bush regime??? Is it supposed to represent that bush is not out of control.??? Or is this just more diversional spin to distract from the bush questions. Questions that are VALID , overdue and WARRANTED.

bush bashers???? Who would waste time "bashing" him for idle entertainment IF there was not enough substance to warrant it??? Bush "devotees"/ and bush "bashers"......and never the twain shall meet. :wink: But you gotta give bush credit where credit is due.........and it is towards how he has divided the nation within. (US) and the world from the US.( didn't he LIE about being a unifier ??? :evil: Is there ANYTHING he has not lied about??? (only a "fool" would believe a word that man utters .......or a bush devotional ) The other credit is : he and his goons are the dirtiest game players that have entered the political arena in a long time........if ever. So it is being written and so it is being recorded.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

I can say without any doubt in my mind, that if Stephen Harper were at the helm, there would have been plenty...

THAT is a scary , scary thought. (SH =another fanatic but of a different stripe) but I digress.

 

[Musicman]

I find it highly ironic that the Bush Bashers on this forum cannot understand how anyone could elect such a "horrid horrid" man such as George Bush (their words, not mine) and continue to degrade the intelligence of US voters, while at the same time claiming that it is democracy in action when anyone with a right wing attitude on here cannot understand how Paul Martin got elected in Canada.

And then to have the absolute gall to turn around and accuse the right of twisting facts and being brainwashed by propoganda. If it is democracy in Canada, it is democracy in the US too, and just as people on this forum tell the right wingers to live with it because it is "how Canadians feel", perhaps you should take the same advice, because apparently, that is "how US citizens feel."

And one really big difference. In Canada, Paul Martin was not actually elected as a Prime Minister, whereas in the US, George Bush was actually elected as the President. At least, the last time I voted, I do not recall a spot on the ballot for Prime Minister. Does anyone else have that option? Thought not.

hmmm...er ...the topic here is Bush and is he out of control.??? Is the above supposed to be a defense of the bush regime??? Is it supposed to represent that bush is not out of control.??? Or is this just more diversional spin to distract from the bush questions. Questions that are VALID , overdue and WARRANTED.

bush bashers???? Who would waste time "bashing" him for idle entertainment IF there was not enough substance to warrant it??? Bush "devotees"/ and bush "bashers"......and never the twain shall meet. :wink: But you gotta give bush credit where credit is due.........and it is towards how he has divided the nation within. (US) and the world from the US.( didn't he LIE about being a unifier ??? :evil: Is there ANYTHING he has not lied about??? (only a "fool" would believe a word that man utters .......or a bush devotional ) The other credit is : he and his goons are the dirtiest game players that have entered the political arena in a long time........if ever. So it is being written and so it is being recorded.

If you are going to complain about Bush and his alleged lies, then you have to have exactly the same complaint about the Liberal party, Jean Chretien, and Paul Martin. Only a fool (or Jack Layton, hard to tell the difference) would believe a word that man utters.....or a Martin or Liberal devotional. And the liberals in Canada are the dirtiest players in Canadian politics, yet people in Canada are sucked in by their propoganda every day.

The point is, if you are going to criticize Bush, you have to have the same comments about Martin.

TO VANNI FUCCI: Go ahead and split hairs if it makes you happy. The point being, of course, that the US citizens have the ability to vote for a President (on their ballots, during an election, get it) while we have no opportunity to actually vote for our Prime Minister on a direct level. And yes, I am aware that Tony Blair is elected the same way that our PM is elected. One major difference in their politics is that the members of the ruling party have the ability to vote against the ruling party on virtually every vote in the British Parliament, unlike our dictatorship.

It is funny to see the left wings on this forum try to rationalize their behaviour when the exact same arguments and comments they use to justify their position are used against them to justify someone elses position, in this country, or not. Highly amusing, to say the least.

 

[Musicman]

But you gotta give bush credit where credit is due.........and it is towards how he has divided the nation within. (US) and the world from the US.( didn't he LIE about being a unifier ???

Ocean Breeze: Please explain how this is different from what Paul Martin "promissed" when he said he would "end the democratic deficit" (yeah, that has worked well) and would "end western alienation" (again, 36% of Western Canadians would consider separation, up hugely from previous polls). So, has Paul Martin lied as well? Didn't he "LIE about being a unifer?"

The topic of the thread is about George Bush being out of control. I submit that if he is out of control, then so is Paul Martin, for EXACTLY the same reasons given on this thread to support the postion that Bush is out of control. I frankly believe that neither is out of control, and both have absolutely no hesitation in what they are doing, and have no qualms about what they are doing. Yes, Bush is in a war with another country, but yes, Martin is destroying another country, Canada.

 

[mrmom2]

Hey Musicman go read Democracy is an illusion thread the Libs ,Cons,NDP are all owned by these people do you actually believe we have democracy 8O Its the biggest swindle on the planet and I don't believe we or the Brits or the US for that matter has any say on anything .So tell me should I vote for Harper a guy that has gone and took orders from these people :x

 

[Ten Packs]

I find it highly ironic that the Bush Bashers on this forum cannot understand how anyone could elect such a "horrid horrid" man such as George Bush (their words, not mine) and continue to degrade the intelligence of US voters, while at the same time claiming that it is democracy in action when anyone with a right wing attitude on here cannot understand how Paul Martin got elected in Canada.

Won't argue that - or some of the other points you made subsequently.
My short-and-dirty answer?

Thank you, the great mindless voters of Ontario!
(Plus of few of their clones in the Maritimes and the Lower Mainland)
The same people that elected a yet-scientifically-unidentified species known locally as a Carolynnae Parrishimus


And it was ever thus.......

 

[Musicman]

Hey Musicman go read Democracy is an illusion thread the Libs ,Cons,NDP are all owned by these people do you actually believe we have democracy 8O Its the biggest swindle on the planet and I don't believe we or the Brits or the US for that matter has any say on anything .So tell me should I vote for Harper a guy that has gone and took orders from these people :x

I would never presume to tell people how to vote, that is their own personal business and choice. I simply want to point out the hypocrisy in some of the statements about other politicians, but generally those from the right, and the total ignoring of leftist politicians in this country. I have never said that that Bush is either right or wrong, but he did get over 50% support in the last election. To compare, Martin, who nobody but his own riding citizens voted for, was elected with about 35% of the population supporting his PARTY, not him personally. So to bash the majority of the US citizens for voting one way, but accepting the supposition that over 60% of the Canadian voters did not vote for our current leader seems highly hypocritical. Perhaps you do not feel that way, that is fine.

 

[Musicman]

I find it highly ironic that the Bush Bashers on this forum cannot understand how anyone could elect such a "horrid horrid" man such as George Bush (their words, not mine) and continue to degrade the intelligence of US voters, while at the same time claiming that it is democracy in action when anyone with a right wing attitude on here cannot understand how Paul Martin got elected in Canada.

Won't argue that - or some of the other points you made subsequently.
My short-and-dirty answer?

Thank you, the great mindless voters of Ontario!
(Plus of few of their clones in the Maritimes and the Lower Mainland)
The same people that elected a yet-scientifically-unidentified species known locally as a Carolynnae Parrishimus


And it was ever thus.......

Well, we do agree on this. What do we have to do to get her species extinct! :wink:

 

[Musicman]

Hey Musicman go read Democracy is an illusion thread the Libs ,Cons,NDP are all owned by these people do you actually believe we have democracy 8O Its the biggest swindle on the planet and I don't believe we or the Brits or the US for that matter has any say on anything .So tell me should I vote for Harper a guy that has gone and took orders from these people :x

By your first sentence, I assume you must vote Green, if you vote? Otherwise, I suggest that you have voted for someone who you claim has taken orders from "these people". (I have not read the thread, but will do so, not tonight, though!!)

 

[Ten Packs]

Well, we do agree on this. What do we have to do to get her species extinct!

What was your FIRST clue???

 

[Ocean Breeze]

The point is, if you are going to criticize Bush, you have to have the same comments about Martin

well, that is a no brainer. The "same" criticism might and does not apply to each leader........but if there is a thread about "martin getting out of control"....... one is free to add to it at will. (IF he is ........and with data to support it.)

all politicians 'lie". That does not make it right. Most politicians contain their lies to mere manipulations of the truth.....and go into politic speak...... while a very rare few will LIE about something as grave as WAR.......which results in death, destruction of a people, a country and a culture. Lying about killing is on a whole different level of lies. At some point those little political lies turn into acts which in turn become war crimes.

So, is bush getting out of control or is he still "contained" within damage control measures ??? ( which usually involves more spin and branding, and other dastardly tactics.)

 

[Vanni Fucci]

TO VANNI FUCCI: Go ahead and split hairs if it makes you happy. The point being, of course, that the US citizens have the ability to vote for a President (on their ballots, during an election, get it) while we have no opportunity to actually vote for our Prime Minister on a direct level. And yes, I am aware that Tony Blair is elected the same way that our PM is elected. One major difference in their politics is that the members of the ruling party have the ability to vote against the ruling party on virtually every vote in the British Parliament, unlike our dictatorship.

It is funny to see the left wings on this forum try to rationalize their behaviour when the exact same arguments and comments they use to justify their position are used against them to justify someone elses position, in this country, or not. Highly amusing, to say the least.

Ok...I'm going way off-topic here, but...

While I don't consider election fraud to be splitting hairs, I do question your capacity for rational thought, for instance:

1. The Conservative Party of Canada, with what little power they possess, have been given to corruption at all levels, as evidenced by their refusal to force Cargill to open their books as ordered by a House of Commons committee investigating alleged meat packer profiteering during the BSE crisis. Inicidently, the BQ is equally culpable in this obvious pay-off.

2. The Conservative Party of Canada, again along with the BQ, derailed Parliament for two weeks, and attempted to force an election nobody but rabid neoconservatives and their attendant sheeple would have wanted. Not to mention their willingness to accept as proof and act upon testimony heard in an on-going inquiry, suggesting that they have no respect for, nor concept of innocent until proven guilty.

3. The Conservative Party of Canada showed their proclivity for Bush-style faith-based initiatives with their vitriolic and clearly unconstitutional resistence to amendments to marriage legislation to include same-sex couples.

4. Gurmant Grewal's comedic sting operation...and the ongoing investigations into his own malfeasance therewith... :roll:

5. The Conservative Party of Canada have shown the country their true colours any time they have not gotten their way, with their pissing and moaning, and their shameful remarks regarding defector Belinda Stronach.

Now, I've never once defended anything that the Liberal Party of Canada has done, but even with all the lies and corruption that may or may not have taken place, even though I'd never vote for them, I find comfort in knowing that with a Liberal government, at least there is a chance at an equitable society, which would never be the case with the CPC...

So, spin that all you want, neocon shill, but the CPC will NEVER form a government...because they're just too feckin' stupid...

...but of course, as this is a democracy, you're free to vote for them if you choose...just keep your whining to a minimum when they lose yet again...

 

[Jo Canadian]

 

[ElPolaco]

Re: RE: Is Bush Out of Control?

Thirdly, you say he contradicts his faith by executing convicted killers ... I say you're wrong. Here is a quote from Genesis 9:5-6:
"And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."

From Para. 56 of Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), an encyclical letter on various threats to human life which Pope John Paul II issued on March 25, 1995.

"This is the context in which to place the problem of the death penalty. On this matter there is a growing tendency, both in the Church and in civil society, to demand that it be applied in a very limited way or even that it be abolished completely. The problem must be viewed in the context of a system of penal justice ever more in line with human dignity and thus, in the end, with God's plan for man and society. The primary purpose of the punishment which society inflicts is "to redress the disorder caused by the offence."(46) Public authority must redress the violation of personal and social rights by imposing on the offender an adequate punishment for the crime, as a condition for the offender to regain the exercise of his or her freedom. In this way authority also fulfills the purpose of defending public order and ensuring people's safety, while at the same time offering the offender an incentive and help to change his or her behaviour and be rehabilitated.(47)

It is clear that, for these purposes to be achieved, the nature and extent of the punishment must be carefully evaluated and decided upon, and ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent.

In any event, the principle set forth in the new Catechism of the Catholic Church remains valid: 'If bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons, public authority must limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.'"


(46) Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 2266

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Is Bush Out of Contro

Or, more to the point, "Thou shalt not kill." You could also toss in, " 'Vengeance is mine,' sayeth the Lord." Anybody who claims to be a Christian and supports the death penalty is a liar and a fraud.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Is Bush Out of Contro

Or, more to the point, "Thou shalt not kill." You could also toss in, " 'Vengeance is mine,' sayeth the Lord." Anybody who claims to be a Christian and supports the death penalty is a liar and a fraud.

indeed. ......add to that : anyone who claims to be "Christian"......(religious) and supports ELECTIVE WARS of choice is a hypocrit, liar, fraud. and , and , and .......and an embarrassemnt to his self proclaimed belief system./ or humanity itself.

Time to get to the point , and get away from all the BS rhetoric that is being dished out wholesale . Fancy verbal wrapping does not change the basic situation.