Immigration Numbers

[Curiosity]

Hi DasFX

Agreed with your concept of finding the best people as a goal.

I am very concerned about the loss of some exceptional Canadians who are far better educated - to the U.S. Not that we don't appreciate all the Canadian brain drain possible - but in loyalty to Canada, I don't like to see it happening either.

The core of the country shouldn't be concentrated on politics but on your professionals and the schooling systems which make these things happen. I get a feeing of ennui from some Canadian students who feel there "is no job" waiting...so why continue with the education. That is a huge step in a very sad direction.

It is also another matter for immigration balance as we are discussing. Canadians first - then fill in the gaps with possible applicants from other lands.

 

[DasFX]

Canadians first - then fill in the gaps with possible applicants from other lands.

Exactly, Canada and Canadians should come first in Canada, cause they won't be coming first in any other nation.

It is when Canada and Canadians don't come first that anti-immigration views arise.

 

[I think not]

But when they were saying that, there weren’t drawing immigrants from all over the world. They were mainly from Europe.....right?

Yes that's right, but it applies today also, even moreso.

This was quite applicable when the US (and Canada) were in its infantcy, however I really doubt that today America and Americans want the world's tired, poor and homeless now.

Incorrect, the US has a 50,000 person annual lottery taking in immigrants from countries that have low immigration to the US. The requirements are either a high school dimploma OR two years work experience in any field.

In Canada we already have pleny of tired, poor and homeless folks, I say let us help them before we bring more over.

There have been tired and poor throughout history, blocking out hard working individuals won't help matters.

Besides, when I said bring only the right immigrants, you assumed I meant wealthy and so on. You must agree that there are good immigrants and bad ones and it has nothing to do with wealth.

Actually I didn't assume you meant wealthy, I assumed you meant at the very least educated. However, your immigration policies require the immigrant to be a) either fluent in english or French b) bring $10,000 with them upon arrival and c) have a post secondary education. That is NOT the case in the US.

 

[I think not]

Exactly, Canada and Canadians should come first in Canada, cause they won't be coming first in any other nation.

It is when Canada and Canadians don't come first that anti-immigration views arise.

Canadians arrived from somewhere else just like Americans did, when you realize this you may change your mind. If your reasoning applied in the past, you may not have been where you are today.

 

[Jay]

But when they were saying that, there weren’t drawing immigrants from all over the world. They were mainly from Europe.....right?

Yes that's right, but it applies today also, even moreso.

But it was policy and America wasn't open to the entire world per se....

 

[I think not]

But it was policy and America wasn't open to the entire world per se....

Sure it was and is Jay, how do you think we got to be 300 million in a span of 230 years? I agree immigration has become more stringent in the last 15 to 20 years, you cannot simply show up at the airport and say you want to immigrate to the US. There are preset limits in place.

However, education and wealth are not requirements for application to enter the US as an immigrant and neither is language.

Immigration is a great thing, if it wasn't for immigration Canada and the US would barely exist.

 

[Jay]

http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/Immigration/who_are_the_immigrants.html#1890-1924

 

[tracy]

[Actually I didn't assume you meant wealthy, I assumed you meant at the very least educated. However, your immigration policies require the immigrant to be a) either fluent in english or French b) bring $10,000 with them upon arrival and c) have a post secondary education. That is NOT the case in the US.

That just isn't true. I used to volunteer at immigrant services helping with their English class. There are several different types of immigration categories in Canada, just like in the US, and the requirements are different depending in which category you fit. Most of the people in our class spoke very little English and had little to no money.

US immigration is pretty serious. Trust me, I spent 3 days at the Mexican border last month because of my visa paperwork :? My immigration was dependent on language, money and professional work experience in a field the US needs and mine was MUCH easier than most immigrants thanks to NAFTA. The Philipina nurses I work with all faced about a 2 year wait before they could immigrate and again, had to prove their English fluency, education, money and professional experience and submit to a health exam to be considered. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

 

[I think not]

That just isn't true. I used to volunteer at immigrant services helping with their English class. There are several different types of immigration categories in Canada, just like in the US, and the requirements are different depending in which category you fit. Most of the people in our class spoke very little English and had little to no money.

It is true depending on the classification of your immigration application.

US immigration is pretty serious. Trust me, I spent 3 days at the Mexican border last month because of my visa paperwork :? My immigration was dependent on language, money and professional work experience in a field the US needs and mine was MUCH easier than most immigrants thanks to NAFTA. The Philipina nurses I work with all faced about a 2 year wait before they could immigrate and again, had to prove their English fluency, education, money and professional experience and submit to a health exam to be considered. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

There are different classifications of immigrants in the US and in Canada. The point I am trying to make is that immigration is great and should be as open as possible.

 

[Jay]

I think immigration is a great tool, but we need to be careful where we draw immigrants from.

 

[DasFX]

Canadians arrived from somewhere else just like Americans did, when you realize this you may change your mind. If your reasoning applied in the past, you may not have been where you are today.

I'm not anti-immigration; being so would be completely hypocritical. I support immigration and see how it has built this country, however I still say that the Canadian government should be geared to Canadians and residents already here first. I still say that giving preferences to immigrants who speak either official language is better for both parties in the long run. I still say that immigrants who misuse the opportunities giving to them should be deported immediately. I still say that there are many bad immigrants who simply use this country for their own selfish reasons and who have no intention of adding to it.

What is wrong with the notion of choosing wisely? It is not our obligation to let in any person showing up at our doorstep. Canada of the 1800's and early 1900's is no more, the open immigration system that populated North America is not required.

Another program I'd like to see is have immigrants fast tracked if they are willing to sign contracts that would assign them to live in non-tradition immigrant destinations. It would be better if immigrant populations spread out across the land, rather than concentrating on one or two cities. This would be a win-win situation. Immigrants would live in cities with cheaper costs of living, they would face less competition, and they would integrate faster. From the point of view of smaller cities, they would receive people they desperately need; their population would be able to embrace first hand diversity and different cultures.

 

[tracy]

That just isn't true. I used to volunteer at immigrant services helping with their English class. There are several different types of immigration categories in Canada, just like in the US, and the requirements are different depending in which category you fit. Most of the people in our class spoke very little English and had little to no money.

It is true depending on the classification of your immigration application.

US immigration is pretty serious. Trust me, I spent 3 days at the Mexican border last month because of my visa paperwork :? My immigration was dependent on language, money and professional work experience in a field the US needs and mine was MUCH easier than most immigrants thanks to NAFTA. The Philipina nurses I work with all faced about a 2 year wait before they could immigrate and again, had to prove their English fluency, education, money and professional experience and submit to a health exam to be considered. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

There are different classifications of immigrants in the US and in Canada. The point I am trying to make is that immigration is great and should be as open as possible.

I am very pro-immigration too.

My point was just that your blanket statement was wrong (saying Canada required immigrants be educated, fluent in English or French and have $10000, while the US doesn't is untrue or at the very least a lie of omission).

Both Canada and the US have some requirements for certain classes of immigrants and guest workers and both take a certain number of people without those skills or resources. The US has actually tightened its skilled worker programs because they had too many IT professionals taking American jobs (H1B visas). I only know about that because it affected nurses too. Now all nurses wanting to work in the US have to get their greencard first (except for Canadians and Mexicans).

 

[Curiosity]

Immigration is very slow and cautious right now...

I have been in the U.S. for almost 20 years. Three years ago I applied for naturalization and although I have been a legal resident for all that time, and had to report my whereabouts on a regular basis, when I applied for naturalization, I had to start all over again.

I have been tested, biometric'd, interviewed, danced, sang (oh no not those)....and still haven't been officially sworn in...meanwhile my alien card ran out so I had to reapply for an extension on that and it will run out again in May of this year again.....

Homeland security has slowed things down and while it makes my life a misery I am still glad they do it this way. Even my congressman has made queries and I get nice letters from the Immigration people telling me I am in the "hands of the FBI" which really makes me feel not so good.....

Sheesh...but still if they are doing it the right way....I'm ok with it.

But....this doesn't seem to apply to the Mexican population - they have special rules I think...whereas Canada and the US have lots of reciprocal things...

I entered as a student, but had a job and family here and some money in the bank.... then did the permanent resident thing after I had finished school.. citizenship is very slow because of 9/11.

 

[Hank C]

Another program I'd like to see is have immigrants fast tracked if they are willing to sign contracts that would assign them to live in non-tradition immigrant destinations. It would be better if immigrant populations spread out across the land, rather than concentrating on one or two cities. This would be a win-win situation. Immigrants would live in cities with cheaper costs of living, they would face less competition, and they would integrate faster. From the point of view of smaller cities, they would receive people they desperately need; their population would be able to embrace first hand diversity and different cultures.

I would like to see a similar system. I think it has to start with the provinces and cities. Obviously a large amount will be heading for Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and Calgary. However we should try and give priority to immigrants who are willing to move to small centers and provinces. We could have a program where these folks are required to live and work in the specified areas until they are Canadian citizens. People need to understand that we are letting them in to fill a need which is required. When you make it a requirement that these immigrants stay in the small towns and provinces until the are citizens then inevitably in the long run many will choose to stay there.

 

[FiveParadox]

Immigration Suggestions

While I would assert that immigrants should have the rights and freedoms of mobility between cities and the provinces, and we should not arrange priorities based on where a pending immigrant would prefer to stay, I would suggest that we should provide some sort of incentive for those who would be in favour of taking up residence in a non-mainstream immigration city.

It would be more appropriate, in my opinion, to perhaps compensate those who would take up residence in non-mainstream immigration cities (which are, I would assert, less attractive to new Canadians) with some sort of immigration credit. For example, the fee for immigrants to come to Canada could be set at a high base value (by way of example only, let's say $4 000 CAD), and such an immigrant could be credited a certain amount that would be deducted from the fee (or refunded, if the deduction was greater than the base fee).

For example, the mainstream immigration cities (Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and Montréal, in particular) could offer no deduction for new immigrants, whereas moving to Prince George could offer a deduction of $2 000 CAD, and moving to Iqaluit could offer a deduction of $4 500 CAD (meaning that the new immigrant would essentially be given compensation for moving to that city). Now, obviously, they would need to keep residence in that city for a particular amount of time in order to seek to be compensated with any such credit.

Just a random idea; obviously, the numbers might not work, and therefore are entirely off of the top of my head at the moment. Would anybody else consider such a suggestion workable, in terms of immigration to Canada?

 

[Hank C]

Re: Immigration Suggestions

While I would assert that immigrants should have the rights and freedoms of mobility between cities and the provinces, and we should not arrange priorities based on where a pending immigrant would prefer to stay, I would suggest that we should provide some sort of incentive for those who would be in favour of taking up residence in a non-mainstream immigration city.

It would be more appropriate, in my opinion, to perhaps compensate those who would take up residence in non-mainstream immigration cities (which are, I would assert, less attractive to new Canadians) with some sort of immigration credit. For example, the fee for immigrants to come to Canada could be set at a high base value (by way of example only, let's say $4 000 CAD), and such an immigrant could be credited a certain amount that would be deducted from the fee (or refunded, if the deduction was greater than the base fee).

For example, the mainstream immigration cities (Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and Montréal, in particular) could offer no deduction for new immigrants, whereas moving to Prince George could offer a deduction of $2 000 CAD, and moving to Iqaluit could offer a deduction of $4 500 CAD (meaning that the new immigrant would essentially be given compensation for moving to that city). Now, obviously, they would need to keep residence in that city for a particular amount of time in order to seek to be compensated with any such credit.

Just a random idea; obviously, the numbers might not work, and therefore are entirely off of the top of my head at the moment. Would anybody else consider such a suggestion workable, in terms of immigration to Canada?

Well it is an idea. I would prefer that a certain amount of immigrants be given priority if they are willing to move to small towns or other areas where their skills or labor are needed. They should be required to work there until they are Canadian citizens. This would lead to immigrants "growing fond" of these parts, and inevitably many of them would stay. I think this may work better than simply an incentive, and I like the idea of a guest worker program to fill our labor shortages.

 

[FiveParadox]

Immigrants in "Prison"

I am just reluctant to introduce a system of immigration where people would be forced to stay places where they would be unhappy or in hardship, in order to gain their citizenship; I would not feel right if our new immigrants felt as though they were in a prison of sorts in order to be accepted into society.