Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary

[the caracal kid]

There are translation errors, but that aside there is another issue that played a part in the "virgin mary", and that was the amalamation of older beliefs into the new religion. Christianity is a blending of many beleifs to make it appealing to as many people as possible.

As for change: I just have to point out the realities.

 

[sanctus]

Dear Sanctus - thank you for answering my earlier remarks
It is my opinion to perpetuate these original stories of sin - and immaculata - all having to do with sex - and the need for the servants within the church to remain celibate - has intituted a never-ending problem for the church itself - that the act of procreation - of our survival - has become sinful in the eyes of the church - a church which demands its servants be free of this sin - makes me wonder why it is so tied up to the act of creation - which of necessity we humans must perform to continue our species.
In sum - the Roman Church is far too concerned with matters of sex rather than one's soul.

Devil's advocate, and perhaps something to think about, is the Church involved too much in this area because the society it exists in is as well? In other words, the Church is perhaps compelled to involved itself in this area because it is a constant, steady force in our society,now more so than ever!

 

[sanctus]

There are translation errors, but that aside there is another issue that played a part in the "virgin mary", and that was the amalamation of older beliefs into the new religion. Christianity is a blending of many beleifs to make it appealing to as many people as possible.

As for change: I just have to point out the realities.

You are wrong, and I will not argue about it. The Scriptures have not been mis-translated, despite what some pop televison program you watched or revisionist text you may have read stated.

 

[the caracal kid]

christians misintranslated the early texts.

tough luck, but thats the reality of it. Of course, your seminary didn't teach this, but there is a bigger reality.

 

[sanctus]

The missions and all the wonderful charities churches around the world do cannot be demeaned and I will not go there - I truly appreciate the work the church does, however I want to add again another opinion of mine - which is mine alone and I don't expect you to agree with it - but the teachings of the church continue to keep people in submission for the work of these missions to be carried out - I do not see within the church hierarchy any missions uplifing mankind (and womankind) to self-actualization and the reality they can be independent and seek improvement for themselves, on their own, without the need for church interference at all....and can still be good parishioners, acceptable members of the parish.

The church in the majority seeks to keep people in need - primarily by its demands of large families and again its unrealistic lessons taught to couples about child-bearing - not advising them to stay within certain parameters where all needs can be met properly, but coaching them to have large numbers of children. It is a mixed message and often I wonder what the church actually wants of its people and its servants within. I conclude - "the impossible".

.

You certainly make some interesting points. I would counter that the Church in and of itself cannot do anything to keep people in need, but instead replies to the needs of the people it seeks to serve.

You are a bit out of date, if you'll allow me to say so, on church teachings on having lots of children. Though certainly I admit the Church has not changed its stance on birth control and/or abortion, it does try as best it can to meet the modern challenges it finds the people in. Does it succeed? Not always.

There will be those things that are wrong, and others that are right. I firmly believe in all my heart that the good outweighs the bad. I see the church responding in so many ways to those who would otherwise be ignored by the more affluent amongst us.

I worked for a few years in a mission in the Philippines with some very determined nuns from the SSMI order(Sister Servants of Mary Immaculate) Those ladies were, in honesty, demons when it came to their compassion and unfailing devotion to the street children they continually brought into the mission. I would say "But Sr, we don't have room for one more". And this one nun, I'll never forget that old bird(Now passed away) Sr. Mary Joseph, would look me in the eye with that "face" abd say inthe coldest voice you can imagine "Father, would Jesus complain about the lack of room". Used to floor me all the time.Like many of us newer priests, we were, I admit now, a bit afraid of this formidable woman.

My point is, I know for a fact that in so many ways the Church is doing what it can to help those in need. It will fail, but it is the fact that is is trying that recommends it, in my eyes.

 

[sanctus]

christians misintranslated the early texts.

tough luck, but thats the reality of it. Of course, your seminary didn't teach this, but there is a bigger reality.

Well, as I said, you would certainly know more than all he Popes, the early fathers of the Church, the Bishops from the first and second centuries and the biblical historians.

 

[the caracal kid]

you are a snarky one, arn't you sanc?

I get my info FROM sources such as biblical historians (unbiased ones that is - the biased ones are just for entertainment).

 

[Curiosity]

Dear Sanctus

I feel badly about my previous posts - thinking as if you are a fragile person in your devotion to your calling - but I realize you would have to be extremely strong to remain steadfast in your belief and your commitment to it.

I thank you for having conversation with me - I in now way mean to diminish your belief but in fact am envious you can have such a simple yet complicated knowledge of your faith and your understanding of how things are as they are.

Rather than feel "I know better", I assure you I do not, and compare myself to one who has not yet learned how to canoe with one oar properly and am merely circling the pond - where you are on a steadfast route towards a goal.

Serenity and peace must be a wonderful thing to have - those things have evaded me all my life. Curio

 

[sanctus]

Dear Sanctus

I feel badly about my previous posts - thinking as if you are a fragile person in your devotion to your calling - but I realize you would have to be extremely strong to remain steadfast in your belief and your commitment to it.

I thank you for having conversation with me - I in now way mean to diminish your belief but in fact am envious you can have such a simple yet complicated knowledge of your faith and your understanding of how things are as they are.

Rather than feel "I know better", I assure you I do not, and compare myself to one who has not yet learned how to canoe with one oar properly and am merely circling the pond - where you are on a steadfast route towards a goal.

Serenity and peace must be a wonderful thing to have - those things have evaded me all my life. Curio

Don't apologise!!! I enjoyed your comments a great deal. Am I strong, oh if only that were true-those "dark nights of the soul" have plagued me at times just like anyone else. I have held doubts, and fears just like everybody does. I do feel peace, though, in my faith, which sometimes is all that sustains me. I am also somewhat of a problem at times for my superiors because I am a bit of rebel in their eyes The "hippie all you need is love" mentality that is so naive but so pure in my eyes. Am I cranky at times, oh yes...and I go through such great pangs of guilt over it! You know, I try like we all do, and I fail so much sometimes it wounds me deeply.

Before I came home tonight I was at hospital with a dying man and I was somewhat curt with his wife, which now I am feeling very guilty about. She was a bit of a pain, but to be fair I neglected to consider her pain in dealing with a husband that will probably be dead by morning.In other words, I think I put my own comfort ahead of her needs because I was tired and wanted to go home.

My point is, we all truly are human, those in and those out of the Church.

If there is anything I can help you with, despite our distance, do not hesitate to let me know here or in Private messages. I promise i won't try and evangelize you or send the Jehovah's Witness to your door!!

 

[sanctus]

If there is anything I can help you with, despite our distance, do not hesitate to let me know here or in Private messages. I promise i won't try and evangelize you or send the Jehovah's Witness to your door!!

P.S. though I might be tempted to send some cranky old nun to get you---hah hah hah I'd like to see you take on one of those women!!!

 

[Curiosity]

LOL Sanctus

Punishment by Nun !!!

Hahaha. I have no idea who would come out on that one - but I would wear the good woman down with my questions.

Thank you for your offer of soul sustenance too. It is also good to hear you have a rebellious nature about some things - shows independence of thought which to me is paramount in getting all we can from our lives.

 

[sanctus]

LOL Sanctus

Punishment by Nun !!!

Hahaha. I have no idea who would come out on that one - but I would wear the good woman down with my questions.

Thank you for your offer of soul sustenance too. It is also good to hear you have a rebellious nature about some things - shows independence of thought which to me is paramount in getting all we can from our lives.

That is why I am so at peace with my faith walk, to be honest with you. I did not come willingly into the fold I was raised in a pretty straight forward-go to Mass every Sunday, not eat meat on fridays type of home etc.,etc.In our house, we did not have a choice! Church was not an option open to us. In fact, when my brother and I were old enough my mother signed us up as altar boys. We were very involved in the Church at the parish level. In fact, to be honest, it was as a boy I felt the tug to the priesthood. I rejected it all as a teen, drugs and the 70's were much more attractive to me. I fancied myself an atheist for many years, up to and including my first year of University. My first published book(yes I am a much published poet and am somewhat respected in the poetry world) contained scathing attacks on the faith and God. But gradually, God won in the soul tug of war. I wish I could write that I had a St. Paul "on the road to Damascus" sort of conversion, but that would be a lie. It was gradual, and eventual. So in short, I have been to the other side, so to speak. That is why I know the world of doubts and fears about this topic. And since re-emerging into my faith, I have only found evidence to strengthen it, rather than diminish it.

At heart, I still hold to that "why" mentality. In other words, don't just tell me, show me. And God has, in a million different ways demonstrated to me the answers.

Funny, just yesterday I was on the phone with my bishop who was "bitching" that I was wearing secular clothing too much....so you see they are not done with me yet!

 

[sanctus]

Hahaha. I have no idea who would come out on that one - but I would wear the good woman down with my questions.
ves.

Hmmm, I'd put my money on the nun..some of those women are formidable, just ruthless in their faith!! (ouch)hah hah hah hah..like most women, they have little tolerance for the silliness of we men

 

[Curiosity]

Sanctus

I believe I have tangled with a nun much like the one you speak of - she is the principal of a Catholic School in my city and every year she hits me up for the Sports Day fund raiser and I continue to lose...even as she gets older. The first time she asked me to pay her for the number of completed runs on their track I insisted she wear her "uniform" hahaha... even so, it cost me fifty bucks. It was the competition for her rather than the money - to see if she can best herself in spite of age progression..lol... She is soon to retire to a convent in Northern California - if she ever "retires" at all.

Many of her visits to our home involved the "prime picking week" of either our winter fruits or our summer fruits.... and she always left with bags filled with tree ripened products from our yard....but her visits were worth it...the cheer and energy she spread was as good as a long vacation.

You are fortunate in that your church was a familiar choice - even after rebellion and trying out your wings in defiance (I always think one who comes back after these excursions of independence returns stronger than before)....you did come back and the church must seem like a large family in which you
can be yourself ... to be an individual while choosing to remain a part of a larger group...even being comfortable with your bishop who probably feels it is part of his "duty" to remark on your choice of clothing, when in secret he admires your feistiness. You will always have a family of belonging. That is a secure place in which to experience life.

I believe the revolution of the young in the 60s and 70s was refreshing in so many ways for our world as it has delivered some unique people and I am only sorry so many had to experience devastation because of the drug culture - never pulling back out of it. You survived, and you probaby tasted the apple and still made your decision. At least you know what the other side was like so you are better for it in your work with people.

Do your superiors still refer to your published work or have they let you get off easily on that period of your pre-priesthood? I often wonder if the religious community ever want to just break out for a few days and be free from responsibilities - but I suppose if they did, they would feel very lonely and disconnected from their zone...

You are a fortunate man finding your way and being able to live on that path... some people never do.

 

[sanctus]

Sanctus

I believe I have tangled with a nun much like the one you speak of - she is the principal of a Catholic School in my city and every year she hits me up for the Sports Day fund raiser and I continue to lose...even as she gets older. The first time she asked me to pay her for the number of completed runs on their track I insisted she wear her "uniform" hahaha... even so, it cost me fifty bucks. It was the competition for her rather than the money - to see if she can best herself in spite of age progression..lol... She is soon to retire to a convent in Northern California - if she ever "retires" at all.

Many of her visits to our home involved the "prime picking week" of either our winter fruits or our summer fruits.... and she always left with bags filled with tree ripened products from our yard....but her visits were worth it...the cheer and energy she spread was as good as a long vacation..

See what I mean! Those ladies of faith are not to be messed with. So, I take it you have some sort of a farm?

 

[sanctus]

Do your superiors still refer to your published work or have they let you get off easily on that period of your pre-priesthood? I often wonder if the religious community ever want to just break out for a few days and be free from responsibilities - but I suppose if they did, they would feel very lonely and disconnected from their zone...

You are a fortunate man finding your way and being able to live on that path... some people never do.

Very true. I always feel a sense of belonging in the Church, even though I sometimes run afoul of the authorities

Thos earlier pieces of mine are never mentioned, though I have a small following of sorts for recent published works. I still am avid in my pursuit of my artistic side as a poet.

 

[Curiosity]

Sanctus

Is your published book still available at bookstores? It's ok if you choose not to respond to this one.

We had a large orchard with twelve different trees - in a regular neighborhood of single family houses, but had a rather large lot at the top of a culdesac....pie shaped - so we had plenty of room and many fruit trees which didn't take up much room if they were kept trim...

I'll never forget my husband coming into the house and saying to me: "Is that a real nun in our tree???"
He never knew what to expect when he arrived home. Not waiting for my reply, he went outside to give her a hand in picking her treasures.

 

[sanctus]

Sanctus

Is your published book still available at bookstores? It's ok if you choose not to respond to this one.

es.

Not the earlier ones, but I still have work published in magazines and emags.

Here is a link to my my most recent book:http://www.publishamerica.com/shopping/shopdisplayproducts.asp?catalogid=8538

 

[sanctus]

Sanctus

We had a large orchard with twelve different trees - in a regular neighborhood of single family houses, but had a rather large lot at the top of a culdesac....pie shaped - so we had plenty of room and many fruit trees which didn't take up much room if they were kept trim...

I'll never forget my husband coming into the house and saying to me: "Is that a real nun in our tree???"
He never knew what to expect when he arrived home. Not waiting for my reply, he went outside to give her a hand in picking her treasures.

Most have been funny...I am jealous! I am a fanatic for fruit and veggies!

 

[Curiosity]

Sanctus

We have bountiful crops here in all seasons - things I had never seen "growing" until I moved south....
Avocados and Figs were the first.... and nuts.... almonds, grapes galore..... and I wonder how many people have seen a newly picked Cauliflower with its leaf cover still intact - it is about two feet tall...before the leaves are cut back and the flower of vegetable exposed....

If people don't want to have their own little growing places in their yards the local farms sell produce at their driveway - some all week long - all year long depending on the crops - and it is wonderful being able to taste home grown things not picked too soon for shipping.

There are five different "regions" within California - so farther to the south or north or west there are different crops within a day's drive - which makes a nice outing if one doesn't mind the awful traffic...
not my idea of a relaxing time. Of course there are wine/cheese tasting rooms everywhere...which seems kinda of weird when people are driving.... nobody asked me tho.

My favorite is harvesting nuts.... they have tree shakers .... I thought we were having an earthquake once driving by an almond orchard.... they were shaking the nuts loose for picking off the ground....
All the trees were rockin and rollin....

Gonna look at your link now....