I would rather live my life as if there is a God

[the caracal kid]

the quest for order, the reduction of stressors by "higher powers", ect.

The power/control/paranoia structure of western religions is entertaining, but nothing more than just a control structure.

What is most interesting in all the mythologies is what they have in common (beyond the borrowing from each other)

as i already said, anything that expects you to accept it on faith alone should be avoided at all costs. It is nothing more that a tool created to control the masses.

I have felt that humanity in its quest for these artificial orders to pacify his fears got it backwards. If there is anything we should be respectful of (and note i say respectful, not fearful or worshipping) are the primary forces of the universe that are the foundation of our universe. Respect life (all forms, from a systems persoective, not just organic), respect yourself and your part within various systems.

 

[iamcanadian]

Evil is what religions serves to define to allow people to comprehend it.

Good and Bad are not hard to deal with conceptually, since it is rational cause and effect type experience. But Evil is very hard for people to understand who are not themselves Evil.

Not everyone experiences Evil in their lives often enough or to a a serious degree, but when one does, religion can serve to manage it.

People that have become evil do not act in ways that can be rationally dealt with by their victims without using some form of religion to avoid the victims becoming Evil in response.

 

[bhoour]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

Evil is what religions serves to define to allow people to comprehend it.

So people need religion to tell them what is evil/bad, in order for you understand it ?


I don't get it....

 

[missile]

Our Laws serve the same purpose in defining good and evil,so why the need for any religion?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I'd rather live my life as if there is no god, take personal responsibility for what I do, and hope to leave the world a better place than I found it. Then if there is no god, I've lost nothing and will be fondly remembered by those I leave behind. If there's a benevolent god, I can hope he'll judge me on my merits and not simply on whether or not I believed in him. I expect to have a pretty good case and I'll argue it forcefully, starting with Bertrand Russell's opening argument: "You didn't give us enough evidence to justify belief."

And if god's not benevolent, it doesn't much matter, we're all screwed anyway.

 

[Jay]

"You didn't give us enough evidence to justify belief."


Hmmm, interesting. I don't believe there is any real empirical evidence to support the "God" theory. I don't think there was supposed to ever be any, other than creation, all you see, hear and taste.

In these days, I think there is a different way of proving God's existence, and that is through a personal relationship, not an equation. Just my two cents.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

I don't believe there is any real empirical evidence to support the "God" theory.

You're right, there isn't anything that can stand routine skeptical scrutiny. Hence my atheism.

I think there is a different way of proving God's existence, and that is through a personal relationship

That's one of the things that doesn't survive routine skeptical scrutiny, for me. Bluntly, there's no way of discerning whether the feelings you attribute to such a personal relationship are due to something external or come entirely from inside your own head. There's nothing you can point to that anyone else can see, and knowing how lamentably easy it is to convince yourself of things you want to be true leaves me deeply suspicious of such feelings.

 

[Jay]

I understand. I don't talk too much about "religion" around here, so that's just my two cents for you. You know Dex, I'm worried about your soul!

 

[Summer]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

Evil is what religions serves to define to allow people to comprehend it.

Good and Bad are not hard to deal with conceptually, since it is rational cause and effect type experience. But Evil is very hard for people to understand who are not themselves Evil.

Not everyone experiences Evil in their lives often enough or to a a serious degree, but when one does, religion can serve to manage it.

People that have become evil do not act in ways that can be rationally dealt with by their victims without using some form of religion to avoid the victims becoming Evil in response.

Hardly. One does not need a religion in order to avoid "becoming evil", no matter what one has been exposed to. All that is necessary is for the person so exposed to recognize the direction in which s/he does not wish to go, the one in which s/he DOES wish to go, and do so from a rational standpoint. Religion can be a tool in this for some, but the same thing can be accomplished without it.

For that matter, how are you even defining "evil" as different from the merely "bad"?

 

[bhoour]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

"You didn't give us enough evidence to justify belief."


Hmmm, interesting. I don't believe there is any real empirical evidence to support the "God" theory. I don't think there was supposed to ever be any, other than creation, all you see, hear and taste.

Why the bible, and structured religion, churche(s), and its a leaders, who spread the "word", and the wars fought over who's "god " is right ...? Shouldn't the fact that we are be enough? Why does it have to be justified?

 

[bhoour]

I'd rather live my life as if there is no god, take personal responsibility for what I do, and hope to leave the world a better place than I found it. Then if there is no god, I've lost nothing and will be fondly remembered by those I leave behind. If there's a benevolent god, I can hope he'll judge me on my merits and not simply on whether or not I believed in him. I expect to have a pretty good case and I'll argue it forcefully, starting with Bertrand Russell's opening argument: "You didn't give us enough evidence to justify belief."

And if god's not benevolent, it doesn't much matter, we're all screwed anyway.

D-I-T-T-O-O -O-O:!:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

You know Dex, I'm worried about your soul!

I'm not. If I thought I had one, I might be... :wink: But I don't. At least, not in the conventional sense of some part of the personality that survives the death of the body.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

Shouldn't the fact that we are be enough? Why does it have to be justified?

I don't see that the incontrovertible fact that we are has anything to do with whether or not anything else is, and in particular it says nothing about the existence or otherwise of any god or gods. That's why, to my way of thinking, a claim about god's existence has to be justified. By the people making the claim.

Or have I misunderstood you? Your dittoing my comment suggests to me that maybe I have.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

You know Dex, I'm worried about your soul!

I'm not. If I thought I had one, I might be... :wink: But I don't. At least, not in the conventional sense of some part of the personality that survives the death of the body.

Well I don't see you around here too much these days, so allow me to wish you a happy holiday season.....maybe Santa will bring you a new telescope or something cool like that.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Thanks for your good wishes Jay, and the same to you, Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, or whatever's appropriate in the context of your life. :wink: I haven't been around much for a few months because my real life's been frantically busy. A new telescope doesn't seem very likely, though it certainly would be cool. Mrs. Sinister and I have decided to buy ourselves a real espresso maker as our major gift to each other, and they cost about the same as a nice telescope.

 

[anood]

Re: RE: I would rather live m

The first post is nothing more than a restatement of Pascal's Wager.

yes :!:

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I've posted this before, but it seems about time people read it again...couldn't do any harm anyway...

 

[pastafarian]

All that is necessary is for the person so exposed to recognize the direction in which s/he does not wish to go, the one in which s/he DOES wish to go, and do so from a rational standpoint.

...kind of like how the Bush administration did in Iraq?

 

[pastafarian]

OK, so I tried to read Jim Walker's "The Problem with Beliefs". I'll slog at it a few more times, but what a pretentious, sophomoric load of drivel.

I'll admit that his "belief" that belief and knowledge are different classes of mental entity does add a sort of unintentional irony to the whole thing, but the irony thing gets old after the twentieth unsupported "belief" that his beliefs are thoughts and other peoples' thoughts are relegated to the inferior status of "beliefs" if he doesn't agree with them.

I tend to ignore that sort of childish rhetorical trick, but the strength of his whole thesis rests on it.

God, to refute this thing line by line would take forever (I remember trying to do the same thing with C.S. Lewis' equally tendentious Mere Christianity and ended up with two sentences of objections to every one of Lewis' unsupported assertions. Anyway, I'll try to control my gag reflex and slog my way to the end of it before I say anything more.

 

[bhoour]

Re: RE: I would rather live my life as if there is a God

Shouldn't the fact that we are be enough? Why does it have to be justified?

I don't see that the incontrovertible fact that we are has anything to do with whether or not anything else is, and in particular it says nothing about the existence or otherwise of any god or gods. That's why, to my way of thinking, a claim about god's existence has to be justified. By the people making the claim.

Or have I misunderstood you? Your dittoing my comment suggests to me that maybe I have.

:error:
I'm on your side..........the non-believers.
Well........I believe in myself.

If you read my posts since the beginning of this thread you see.......where I stand.
:hippy2: