I am amazed by the left on this board.

[Dexter Sinister]

I think you're just trolling, but...

Maybe the left remembers the last conservative administration we had under Mulroney. Cosying up to the U.S., Canadian sovereignty for sale, ballooning deficits, one or two cabinet ministers a year resigning in shame and scandal, patronage up the yingyang, and ultimately the destruction of the Progressive Conservative Party as a legitimate political force in the land...

 

[jimmoyer]

And so not achieving the common good begets us
something other than the mundane and non-exceptional ?

LOL !!!

 

[the caracal kid]

desiring only the common good leaves us with very little,
for there is little in the diversity of the people that is common!

only the very mundane can exist as the common good.
it is in vision and leadership the people can be brought to something greater than the common good.
when this new level is achieved, and stabilized, it too slowly becomes considered a part of the common good.
then again, vision and leadership must come forth to bring the people forward.
the exceptional is in the visionaries that can generate the momentum within society for society itself to strive to be more than it is, to surpass the status quo.

 

[jimmoyer]

In all fairness, Caracal Kid, I do see your distinctions.

But I firmly stand by my original remarks this way:

Often it is the Common Good that does lead us
to surpas the status quo, and often does lead us
to a greater society.

I guess it's semantics now, because I define
the Greater Common Good differently than you.

I also feel the middle ground is a much more organic
and stable way to meet such a goal as the greater good
for a greater number of people.

 

[Alberta'sfinest]

RE: I am amazed by the le

The common good would be too allow all beliefs and lifestyles, and have no bias towards the majority's belief. This is called equality, and it's fundamental to democracy, since everyone gets an equal say, they should get equal treatment by the courts as well. Social programs are easy to decide on too. Keep the ones that reduce the cost of living over private alternatives, and drop the inefficient and inneffective programs. We also need to introduce a more effective program for retraining, education, and job creation, so that we can get the poor making more money and increase their quality of living. Their is a real lack of resources right now to get people working.

 

[the caracal kid]

agreed jim.

alberta's,
i agree with you that we need to respect and promote equality of all. (hence my stance on deities and monarchies)

you raise an interesting point though: "job creation". one of the paradoxes we face so long as we hold to our current economic models is that the unemployment rate is a factor of inflation and thus the government acts to maintain a certian level of unemployment (available workers pool for entrprise to draw from). Strangely enough, we see far too much negativity towards the unemployed. So much for "equality". We already knew that true equality was never really present within the populace, but that only in the governments and the "elite" are the peons all equal units of labour (meat robots for the machinery).

 

[Cosmo]

With ya on that one, Dexter

Triple_R ... you may have bitten off a big mouthful with that first post. This board generally leans left. All opinions are welcome and debate is good for us all ... but I hope your skin is thick. Some of us have very valid reasons for detesting the right wing politics. If yer a minority, I'll eat ma shorts!

I do understand hanging out at board with different political leanings. I am a member of a right leaning board and thoroughly enjoy the exchanges. I think they are usually wrong, but being more interested in people than in politics, I find discovering why people think like they do an endlessly fascinating pastime. At the same time, Triple_R, I don't go there and disrespect them. This is my "home" on the net ... I always feel like a bit of a guest in their house and behave appropriately. *hint hint*

If ya get a little sand in your eyes over that post, you'll not find much sympathy, I fear.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

I was the only true lefty on this board, and now I am back!

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: I am amazed by the left on this board.

Am I the only person who doesn't see how Alberta's economy can be replicated in the rest of the country? Alberta has lots and lots of oil and that industry is the force behind their economy. Without that, their economy wouldn't be anything special and they would certainly have a provincial sales tax.

And no offense meant, but I really wouldn't want the rest of Canada to be just like Alberta. Money-wise it would be nice, but socially speaking I think Alberta is a little too regressive for me.

Everyone knows it could be... But a lot of us don't want to be like Alberta! ALSO if the REST of CANANDA had oil under it, we could be just like ALBERTA too a lot more easyly. Of course as soon as the oil runs out maybe then the people of Alberta will wonder why they didn't profit from the oil money... Then they will see the big rich mega corperations leaving with there money sacks from the oil , laughing all the way home, while Alberta becomes a have not province again... Then again it's your oil, if you want to spend it on tax cuts to the wealthy and not on a good health care system while you have it... it's your own loss. *shrugs*

It's actually not my oil. I don't live in Alberta.

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: I am amazed by the left on this board.

Common good does NOT MEAN "people must give up
their beliefs to achieve a neutral status."

We're about to enter the spinning top of semantics
here.

Often the middle ground achieves the greatest common
good.

Well as a fellow person who thinks ideologs such as Rousseau and Marx were wrong when developing thier arguments and they removed the immportance of the individual from the common good. You must understand that for them as in all people who extreme that the magority for the common good believed in one thing and would force there beliefs on the minority... Democracy yes, in mob rule for sure.

Us moderates would like to think there's enough common ground for all of us to work together and find solutions for as many people as possible. I think by working together and agreeing that there is no "true right answer" to the worlds problems we can forget about what old Marx, Rousseau, Hobes, Stalin and Hitler wrote.

I really do think Harper has reliezed this lession and he has moved a little more to the left to be seen as a Canadian leader.

 

[nomore]

There are a lot of interesting posts in this thread.

I think what it seems to come to in this country, is that a lot of where people place their votes has to do with more emotional issues rather than logical ones. I firmly believe this ultimately leads to social problems, and financial ones.

Now before everyone jumps down my throat...I will be the first to admit, I have somewhat left leaning ideals (not as left as some of you), so you could say I am a social liberal, however, I also consider myself a strict fiscal conservative.

One of my firm beliefs in life, and in politics, is that people deserve their freedom, their rights, and their safety. On the same token, I believe people deserve the money they earn. I don't believe people should be dictated to by Government, and shouldn't be told when and where they should spend their money.

I think the left leaning ideals that I have, have been lost in the emotional outcry by the far-left. They in essence have people who work hard and have a "good" life punished for this, because they somehow feel it isn't deserved, however they will also say that the less fortunate people in this country deserve the rewards from the wealthy, rather than putting possible blame on these people for possibly making bad decisions in their own lives. Essentially putting the burden of people's bad decisions on the ones who made the right ones. Not to say there isn't a minority that needs, or really has had unfortunate circumstances. Just that the ones who take advantage have ruined it for the rest.

Now back to my original point. People need to start to take responsibility for their own actions, and stop feeling they are owed something by society. I think the true vision to making a prosperous country is not to continue to give more and more, because this breeds the "society owes it to me" mentality. We need to go back before we can go forward. Give people reasons to contribute to society, rather than giving things to people who don't contribute.

I think what it comes down to, is that the large portion of the left (not all) needs a better vision of how to achieve their goals. Since most of what I see, is they want it all right now. Low taxes, social programs for all, and a one minded society. Where as I firmly believe we need to make significant sacrifices first, before we can make any progress on the social front. Lay the framework for a better country, and a better society. It may hurt for a few years, or even decades, but the means justify the end.

That's a lot of rambling, hopefully some of it made sense.

 

[I think not]

Left/Right, Tomato, Tomatoe. As long as people keep an open mind, see how fast left and right becomes blurred.

Centrists of the world, unite!

 

[Jay]

I'm not convinced of this yet, ITN. I think the left is OK with the right so long as the right keeps an open wallet.

 

[KanBob]

Re: RE: I am amazed by the left on this board.

Am I the only person who doesn't see how Alberta's economy can be replicated in the rest of the country? Alberta has lots and lots of oil and that industry is the force behind their economy. Without that, their economy wouldn't be anything special and they would certainly have a provincial sales tax.

And no offense meant, but I really wouldn't want the rest of Canada to be just like Alberta. Money-wise it would be nice, but socially speaking I think Alberta is a little too regressive for me.

Everyone knows it could be... But a lot of us don't want to be like Alberta! ALSO if the REST of CANANDA had oil under it, we could be just like ALBERTA too a lot more easyly. Of course as soon as the oil runs out maybe then the people of Alberta will wonder why they didn't profit from the oil money... Then they will see the big rich mega corperations leaving with there money sacks from the oil , laughing all the way home, while Alberta becomes a have not province again... Then again it's your oil, if you want to spend it on tax cuts to the wealthy and not on a good health care system while you have it... it's your own loss. *shrugs*

It's actually not my oil. I don't live in Alberta.

Let's see, regressive Alberta (this from someone born and bred in Ontario).

Fact #1 about ALberta. Lottery revenues exceed oil revenues for the provincial government. And lottery revenues are probably similar her for the population as in any province.

Fact #2 about Alberta. Province spends more per capita on social services than any other province. We look after our own.

Fact #3 about Alberta. Province also spends slightly more per capita on public health care than any other province.

True this all does sound pretty regressive.

One thing I have found in Alberta more than any other province I've lived in or visited is this: freedom.

What you call regressive I think most Albertans would just call freedom.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: I am amazed by the left on this board.

What you call regressive I think most Albertans would just call freedom.

Here, here!!

 

[I think not]

Someone has to explain to me how being regressive as opposed to progressive isn't a matter of opinion.

 

[Calberty]

Re: RE: I am amazed by the left on this board.

What you call regressive I think most Albertans would just call freedom.

Here, here!!

True. What always amuses me is how the NDP dippers despise the values of the very people they once claimed to represent: farmers and workers.

Svend Robinson, a yuppy thief who steals valuable jewellry, is 'progressive? A farmer who sweats and ekes out a living through hard work is 'regressive?'

The NDP dippers are doomed to irrelevency until they embrace the values of the farmer and not a spoiled yuppy like Svend the Thief.

 

[Toro]

RE: I am amazed by the le

In regards to the very first post of this thread...

No kidding!

Its hilarious.

 

[Canucklehead]

Re: RE: I am amazed by the left on this board.

What you call regressive I think most Albertans would just call freedom.

Here, here!!

True. What always amuses me is how the NDP dippers despise the values of the very people they once claimed to represent: farmers and workers.

Svend Robinson, a yuppy thief who steals valuable jewellry, is 'progressive? A farmer who sweats and ekes out a living through hard work is 'regressive?'

The NDP dippers are doomed to irrelevency until they embrace the values of the farmer and not a spoiled yuppy like Svend the Thief.

That's a disgusting little simplification, don't you think?

IMO, the only way the NDP could be doomed to irrelevancy would be if one the other typical-two parties get off the butts, tell their corporate sponsers to shut up and get about bringing in respectable and sustainable social services and protecting our environment and natural resources (primary NDP planks). I mean, we had many programs cut in the 90's to save our economy but since the surpluses started rolling in, how much of that was returned to the social services which were cut? (if even only a portion). I would rather see unemployment, medical and small business services (for example)given back some of the money raped from them in the 90's instead of getting a $400/yr tax cut.

Oh, and for the record, I consider myself a Rightwing NDP'er / Leftwing Liberal. (aka averaged out... a centrist)

 

[Calberty]

Re: RE: I am amazed by the left on this board.

What you call regressive I think most Albertans would just call freedom.

Here, here!!

True. What always amuses me is how the NDP dippers despise the values of the very people they once claimed to represent: farmers and workers.

Svend Robinson, a yuppy thief who steals valuable jewellry, is 'progressive? A farmer who sweats and ekes out a living through hard work is 'regressive?'

The NDP dippers are doomed to irrelevency until they embrace the values of the farmer and not a spoiled yuppy like Svend the Thief.

That's a disgusting little simplification, don't you think?

. (aka averaged out... a centrist)

No. the NDP dipper Svend the Thief stole a $50,000 ring. worth more than what many hard working 'honest' workers and farmers earn in a year. Then Svend the Thief went 'Boo hoo'.

So what does Jack Layton do? He praises Svend the Thief and is thrilled that he is representing the NDP Party. Layton smiles with glee as he signs Svend the NDP Thief's nomination papers.

It's all VERY TRUE. It would appear a simplification to you because no 'honest' farmer or worker could fathom that it could be true that a 'progressive' party would have Svend the NDP Thief enthusiastically endorsed by the leader.