I would hope if a draft was imposed that all of age would be expected to serve. Gender is now irrelevant and all parts of proposed fighting units should be integrated. The time when women were given a pass is over. (Not a hint of a pun intended!) I should hope too if national emergency dictates conscription that only well documented medical problems be allowed to excuse participation. If it's a draft it should be democratic and education too should not play a role. No rich families getting a by because junior just signed up for college.
How would you deal with a draft?
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
I chose no.8, but would love to be armed and dangerous & kill lots of whoever our government says to 
Colphy and Mogz
I support the Draft, as I said even more then either of you two seem to. However in the case of a aggressive war like Vietnam, the Korean police action (1950-1953) and the Gulf war (2), I do not think the draft is right, for the direct threat to your nation isn't there, there is no national crisis.
For instance if lets say Denmark went to war with Canada. Currently our military might be able to hold them back. But really Canada which is the second largest nation in the world has a lot of border to cover and if we couldn't get enough people to join the military, I do believe a draft could be called for. Any time your nation is directly threatend, some people who are willing but have too many commitments to join the military may need an extra push.
The motivation for them to fight is for there homeland, their families back home, self preservation and the sooner you win, the sooner you come home.
Yeah this might be one of my more conservative views, but I think it's one of the main area's of any democratic nation social contract.
If you wish to see the real effect of the draft and how it worked for a really long time, look at the start of the French republic (before Napoleon). When France chose to become a Republic, every nation around it including the British wanted to smash France in an aggressive war against France. France was the first modern nation to use conscription the right way and it kept the Republic alive for decades. The Republic was only brought down in the end by internal problems (IE:Napoleon). France during the opening years of the French Revolution also made short work of non-consciption armies as they were too small to be effective, and proved that a conscription army if trined right could be effective against a professional volunteer.
I support the Draft, as I said even more then either of you two seem to. However in the case of a aggressive war like Vietnam, the Korean police action (1950-1953) and the Gulf war (2), I do not think the draft is right, for the direct threat to your nation isn't there, there is no national crisis.
For instance if lets say Denmark went to war with Canada. Currently our military might be able to hold them back. But really Canada which is the second largest nation in the world has a lot of border to cover and if we couldn't get enough people to join the military, I do believe a draft could be called for. Any time your nation is directly threatend, some people who are willing but have too many commitments to join the military may need an extra push.
The motivation for them to fight is for there homeland, their families back home, self preservation and the sooner you win, the sooner you come home.
Yeah this might be one of my more conservative views, but I think it's one of the main area's of any democratic nation social contract.
If you wish to see the real effect of the draft and how it worked for a really long time, look at the start of the French republic (before Napoleon). When France chose to become a Republic, every nation around it including the British wanted to smash France in an aggressive war against France. France was the first modern nation to use conscription the right way and it kept the Republic alive for decades. The Republic was only brought down in the end by internal problems (IE:Napoleon). France during the opening years of the French Revolution also made short work of non-consciption armies as they were too small to be effective, and proved that a conscription army if trined right could be effective against a professional volunteer.
I can't see Canada instituting a draft unless the country is obviously imperiled. Will it be? Count on it. As the century progresses and energy and land develop an exorbitant premium we'll be a natural target. People may tut-tut the Americans but it is the US that has made our existence possible and if it ever - for whatever reason- begins to withdraw from the world we will find out quickly how precarious our little life has been.
Re: RE: How would you deal with a draft?
Well as our current energy resource leave I do believe we will find others. Even if we become one of the few nations with enough oil to export, even if invaded, even that oil can't last forever. Oil no matter what is a short term solution to any of our problems.
I hope Canada is never in enough perile to be forced to use the draft, but you never know what the future may actually hold. Also a direct threat may be the intentions of another nation, for instance if you get another Nazi Germany like super power in the world, then it would be a direct threat to us in the future.
tamarin said:
Well as our current energy resource leave I do believe we will find others. Even if we become one of the few nations with enough oil to export, even if invaded, even that oil can't last forever. Oil no matter what is a short term solution to any of our problems.
I hope Canada is never in enough perile to be forced to use the draft, but you never know what the future may actually hold. Also a direct threat may be the intentions of another nation, for instance if you get another Nazi Germany like super power in the world, then it would be a direct threat to us in the future.
The Atomic Age has allowed us a wonderful respite from the worries and the depredations that have dogged human existence since the first rock was hurled. Mankind has always known war. As China continues to grow in strength and as the US wearies from the burdens it's accepted or initiated there will come a time when obvious and dangerous new polarities develop. I don't think anyone thinks Canada today is inviolable. Look at a map of the 22nd century. Are we still there?
Finder said:
I think we're on the same page with regard to a draft Finder. While I don't think a draft would be useful offensively, a defense draft would probably work out well enough to avert the crisis at hand. I.e. the invasion of Canada.
As for France, yes their conscription armies were large, very, and well trained. However I would like to point out that at Talavera Spain, in July of 1809 (The Peninsula War) a small volunteer British Army of less than 20,000 men led by The Duke of Wellington utterly thrashed Marshal Victor's 56,000 man French Army. Superior training and motivation led to the British victory. Something the eventually led to Napoleons military defeat.
Mogz said:
Not to sound snotty and a hardcore republican fan boy here. But the armies of the Republic, fought there their nation, there representation in a republic, liberty and the democracy (even during the terror, this was the general belief of the average person, perhaps not of the political elite).
This army fought generally alone against all the big powers and even though at times it was disorginized, defeated or kept most of there foes plus loyalists from crushing the republic. The Consciption army of the French Republic was a complete success and one which changed the world. Of course the the republican army did not win all it's battles, as no army does, and they actually did have many ill planned attacks which lead to defeats. However the success of the Republic during these times to stay alive is the victory.
Napoleon however is different, what did they fight for. The republic at best was a facade during his early rule as a consuler, and once he became emporer the republic was no more, just as Augestus ended the Roman Republic, so did Napoleon with the French Republic.
This said The Army under Napoleons empire still had many success against much larger foes, but was not successful because of being too aggressive in other nations (Russia, Prussia, and in the late republic Eygpt)
Also, if I may butt in, you are speaking of the Duke of Wellington. His career as a tactician and leader outshines that of Napolean, and Napolean was supposedly a military genius.
I don't believe (but I will stand to be corrected) that Wellington EVER lost a battle.
I don't believe (but I will stand to be corrected) that Wellington EVER lost a battle.
Re: RE: How would you deal with a draft?
I'm well into my 50s and was rejected by the draft in the early 1970s due to health issues. So it would take a miracle for me to get drafted.
But you raise an interesting point that others have avoided --- why is there no real talk of drafting females? Israel does so and there has never been any proof that this constitutes an unreasonable burden to them or to society. Quite the contrary, there are no gender based discriminatory deferments and the system is working.
Why do you suppose that others avoid this issue?
tamarin said:
I'm well into my 50s and was rejected by the draft in the early 1970s due to health issues. So it would take a miracle for me to get drafted.
But you raise an interesting point that others have avoided --- why is there no real talk of drafting females? Israel does so and there has never been any proof that this constitutes an unreasonable burden to them or to society. Quite the contrary, there are no gender based discriminatory deferments and the system is working.
Why do you suppose that others avoid this issue?
Re: RE: How would you deal with a draft?
Napoleon was great, but he had off days. He also wasn't really French, so you can like him and still not like the French. lol.
However, when it comes to the history of conscription and the draft, the study on the effect of how to defends one nation and liberty would be the study of the French Republic before Napoleon was consuler and then Emporer. You would have to study the time during the Jacobins, The Asseblies and the directory and perhaps the early (very early) consulships, when the Republic was alive and the common belief of the average person was to defeand it.
A lot of people wanted to defend it but had trappings at home. By introducing the Conscrition of every able body male of certain ages and not already employeed in an indestry who needs him into the war indestry, this helped the fledgling republic stay together when it looked like it would be overran by the world.
Even during Napoleons time you could argue that perhaps the French army didn't win every battle but they fought hard and well.
Colpy said:
Napoleon was great, but he had off days. He also wasn't really French, so you can like him and still not like the French. lol.
However, when it comes to the history of conscription and the draft, the study on the effect of how to defends one nation and liberty would be the study of the French Republic before Napoleon was consuler and then Emporer. You would have to study the time during the Jacobins, The Asseblies and the directory and perhaps the early (very early) consulships, when the Republic was alive and the common belief of the average person was to defeand it.
A lot of people wanted to defend it but had trappings at home. By introducing the Conscrition of every able body male of certain ages and not already employeed in an indestry who needs him into the war indestry, this helped the fledgling republic stay together when it looked like it would be overran by the world.
Even during Napoleons time you could argue that perhaps the French army didn't win every battle but they fought hard and well.
Re: RE: How would you deal with a draft?
Napoleon was great, but he had off days. He also wasn't really French, so you can like him and still not like the French. lol.
However, when it comes to the history of conscription and the draft, the study on the effect of how to defends one nation and liberty would be the study of the French Republic before Napoleon was consuler and then Emporer. You would have to study the time during the Jacobins, The Asseblies and the directory and perhaps the early (very early) consulships, when the Republic was alive and the common belief of the average person was to defeand it.
A lot of people wanted to defend it but had trappings at home. By introducing the Conscrition of every able body male of certain ages and not already employeed in an indestry who needs him into the war indestry, this helped the fledgling republic stay together when it looked like it would be overran by the world.
Even during Napoleons time you could argue that perhaps the French army didn't win every battle but they fought hard and well.
Colpy said:
Napoleon was great, but he had off days. He also wasn't really French, so you can like him and still not like the French. lol.
However, when it comes to the history of conscription and the draft, the study on the effect of how to defends one nation and liberty would be the study of the French Republic before Napoleon was consuler and then Emporer. You would have to study the time during the Jacobins, The Asseblies and the directory and perhaps the early (very early) consulships, when the Republic was alive and the common belief of the average person was to defeand it.
A lot of people wanted to defend it but had trappings at home. By introducing the Conscrition of every able body male of certain ages and not already employeed in an indestry who needs him into the war indestry, this helped the fledgling republic stay together when it looked like it would be overran by the world.
Even during Napoleons time you could argue that perhaps the French army didn't win every battle but they fought hard and well.