How will a Conservative government be better?
- Thread starter DasFX
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Most Canadians support the gun registry, Blue.
Most Canadians support those programs too.
Tar Sands, Crow Rate, pipelines. Those were all considered a waste of money by many in eastern Canada.
Re: RE: How will a Conservative government be better?
Agreed. If each province is supposed to be an equal partner in this country, each province should have the same number of senators. Ontario and Quebec already have an advantage due to population so this method would level the playing field a bit.
The Gunslinger said:
Agreed. If each province is supposed to be an equal partner in this country, each province should have the same number of senators. Ontario and Quebec already have an advantage due to population so this method would level the playing field a bit.
Reverend Blair said:
As usual, Rev, you miss the main point. Even if people support the gun registry, the fact that the cost went from $2milion to $2billion cannot be explained in any logical way.
My point about the day care and kyoto was that if this starts in the billions, what will it end up being, again, using past programs as examples.
Tar Sands cost was offset by the NEP. The Crow Rate was in place because the West paid for freight on raw products sent east for manufacturing, and paid for the freight on the raw products sent back West. The Pipelines got the less than world price of gas and oil to the East. Seems like two of the things you mentioned had a direct benefit for the east, and the crow rate only offset another benefit for the east. So this "waste" actually was a benefit to the east. I think it is safe to say the Gun Registry, Kyoto, and day care are not benefits to the West. What about the other things I mentioned, like HRDC, EI, and the current waste and corruption?
Reverend Blair said:
I support controlling guns, I support preserving the environment, I support daycare, but I don't want to spend billions of dollars on them, especially when the initial cost was projected to be far less.
I don't know if the following analogy is correct, but here it goes.
Suppose a charity calls you, the Cancer society and they ask for your support to find a cure. You agree cause you want to get rid of cancer. Well say they say that to find the cure, you need to pledge 100$. You agree. You give them your credit card number and so on. Well the statement comes next month and you see that they charged you 1000$. You call to inquire and find out that they charged more cause they miscalculated and in order to find a cure they needed more money so they took more.
Is this acceptable? You probably still support the quest to find a cure, but you only agreed to give 100$ and now they have taken 10 times more. This is the difference I feel. You can support something, but that doesn't mean you are giving whomever a "carte blanche" to do whatever it takes.
To add insult to injury, much of the extra money is mismanaged.
DasFX said:
Das:
I also support gun controls, we had them prior to this registry. Handgun registry has been in effect since the mid 30's. I support the environment and other social issues as well. However, I advocate responsible support of these issues, not the present system where money is simply thrown at something with no accountability. The proposed daycare program is not something I can support, however. Having been involved directly in this for the last 18 years, I have learned that there are numerous subsidies already in effect, which, in my mind, makes the new program unnecessary. If a particular province wants to expand their daycare program, go for it, but I don't think we have to have what would amount to the cradle part of the cradle to grave government mentality increased. For those who truly need daycare subsidies, they are already in effect, with the most needy paying little or nothing now. As income levels go up, the level of subisdy goes down, until it reaches a certain income level, when subsidies cease.
In my opinion, the conservatives offer the best opportunity to get fiscally responsible social programs. The Liberanos have certainly proven they cannot be fiscally responsible, and the NDP would be worse, in my opinion.
And your analogy was bang on. Excellent example.
Firstly you guys are ignoring all of the programs that were successful and run properly. There have been quite a few over the last twelve years. You seem capable of only recalling a few. Your assertion that any program the Liberals put in will be mismanaged is ludicrous.
Your attempts to paint them as poor financial managers are hilarious. I've got a lot of problems with the way Liberals do things but, given 8 balanced budgets and the fact that the debt has gone down by a huge amount , it is apparent that you are afraid to look at the overall facts.
Blue, you asked for three programs that the east thought were wasteful while Alberta was getting more funds from Ottawa than you were paying in. I named three. You gave reasons why those programs were beneficial to the east. So now Alberta is just like them. Thanks for proving my point.
Further...don't say "the west" doesn't support these programs. Manitoba and Saskatchewan are both very happy with their recently signed child care agreements. There is support for the gun registry in all the cities of Manitoba, BC and Saskatchewan.
Blue...I'm also incredibly tired of the the way you cannot call a political party by its proper name. You are being as childish as Stephen Harper.
Your attempts to paint them as poor financial managers are hilarious. I've got a lot of problems with the way Liberals do things but, given 8 balanced budgets and the fact that the debt has gone down by a huge amount , it is apparent that you are afraid to look at the overall facts.
Blue, you asked for three programs that the east thought were wasteful while Alberta was getting more funds from Ottawa than you were paying in. I named three. You gave reasons why those programs were beneficial to the east. So now Alberta is just like them. Thanks for proving my point.
Further...don't say "the west" doesn't support these programs. Manitoba and Saskatchewan are both very happy with their recently signed child care agreements. There is support for the gun registry in all the cities of Manitoba, BC and Saskatchewan.
Blue...I'm also incredibly tired of the the way you cannot call a political party by its proper name. You are being as childish as Stephen Harper.
Reverend Blair said:
Okay, I'll make you a deal. You quit referring to Harper and the conservatives as bigots, childish, mean spirited, cons, etc. and I won't call the NDP New Dumbocrats and the Liberals Libranos (although that is a great poster in Western Standard). Your choice, I guess.
We haven't. If anything we've been more outspoken for longer than the Conservatives. We would use the money to restore the system torepresent all Canadians.
What tax increases? The Liberals, whether you like it or not, have provided the biggest tax cut in Canadians history. $100 billion. They have also brought CPP back from the brink of bankruptcy to the point where people who pay into will be able to collect a pension from it.
How is the east complaining about those programs, which they didn't like and felt were a waste of money, substantially different than your complaints today? They aren't. The only thing different is your perception.
I was talking to a couple today, actually. They love the child-care program. It will allow them to save money when they are working off of the farm to earn a living due to predatory US trade and subsidy practices. I was talking to some people in Saskatoon and Regina too. They don't care about the gun registry at all.
You get your party to quit acting like childish, mean-spirited bigots, and I'll quit referring to them as that. The point is that I'm using real words to describe a very real opinion, shared by many, of the Conservative Party. That is based on their actions and their policies.
You, on the other hand, have shown a very real ignorance of policy and a definite lack of understanding (or outright denial) of actions and simply make up names that you read in some neo-con extremist rag.
This is one amazing thread you folks have going here.
If one stands back and looks hard at the real issues being discussed. What are they?
National support programs and the cost.
The division and handing out of incoming tax dollars back out to the provinces for their own programs, disaster relief and transfer payments to name a few.
But most obviously is the fact that the provinces are required to beg Ottawa for basically their own money back to support the provincial populations. The current federal government has no populaton to support in actual fact. Our age old government system simply has it set up that way. The federal government is supposed to be there to deal with foriegn affairs, immigration, the military, a national police force possibly. mabey a few other issues but everything else they control are internal issues. There is part of the problem.
The other part of the problem is that the provinces have an elected government in place already that is ruled by any given political party. Why exactly do we go to the trouble of electing yet another partisan based government on top of the provinces that can only be a compromise at best to what the wishes are provincialy.
A conservitive goverment may be wonderful for Alberta, the Bloc may be wonderful for Quebec, the NDP may be great for Saskatchewan, the council style governments say in Nunavut are just fine for that area. WHY? do we need to compromise on what has proven to be an ineffectual government at the federal level?
So when someone asks which one of the parties would you vote for in the next federal election? I have to ask, WHY do I need to? I did that already here.......
If one stands back and looks hard at the real issues being discussed. What are they?
National support programs and the cost.
The division and handing out of incoming tax dollars back out to the provinces for their own programs, disaster relief and transfer payments to name a few.
But most obviously is the fact that the provinces are required to beg Ottawa for basically their own money back to support the provincial populations. The current federal government has no populaton to support in actual fact. Our age old government system simply has it set up that way. The federal government is supposed to be there to deal with foriegn affairs, immigration, the military, a national police force possibly. mabey a few other issues but everything else they control are internal issues. There is part of the problem.
The other part of the problem is that the provinces have an elected government in place already that is ruled by any given political party. Why exactly do we go to the trouble of electing yet another partisan based government on top of the provinces that can only be a compromise at best to what the wishes are provincialy.
A conservitive goverment may be wonderful for Alberta, the Bloc may be wonderful for Quebec, the NDP may be great for Saskatchewan, the council style governments say in Nunavut are just fine for that area. WHY? do we need to compromise on what has proven to be an ineffectual government at the federal level?
So when someone asks which one of the parties would you vote for in the next federal election? I have to ask, WHY do I need to? I did that already here.......
Sure, that's all well and good for those of us who have the good fortune to have NDP governments, but what about those poor, oppressed bastards to your west, Knight?
Maybe we should just elect the NDP federally and make the entire country a better place.
Re: RE: How will a Conservative government be better?
You are absolutely right, sir Knight. We are basically being bought off and bribed with our own money, and Martin is certainly doing that the last three weeks. All of a sudden things that were promissed 12 years ago are high priorities. Why? Because there is a real possibility that the Liberals (hi, rev) won't get elected again.
I like your idea that provinces have already voted for a local government, per se, and that a federal government should maybe be made up of equal representatives from each province. Did I get the basic idea of what you were talking about?
Anyway, the thread was about how will a conservative government be better, and way back when, I posted a bunch of things I thought would be better, but the basic premise comes down to a Conservative government was fiscally responsible social programs with money going to those most in need. The Conservatives believe in less government, not more. A conservative government believes that the individual knows better how to spend their money, and where, than does a federal government. That is what I believe a conservative government will do. Basically, more conservatives, less government. More liberals, more government. I prefer less government and more personal choice, myself.
Knightman said:
You are absolutely right, sir Knight. We are basically being bought off and bribed with our own money, and Martin is certainly doing that the last three weeks. All of a sudden things that were promissed 12 years ago are high priorities. Why? Because there is a real possibility that the Liberals (hi, rev) won't get elected again.
I like your idea that provinces have already voted for a local government, per se, and that a federal government should maybe be made up of equal representatives from each province. Did I get the basic idea of what you were talking about?
Anyway, the thread was about how will a conservative government be better, and way back when, I posted a bunch of things I thought would be better, but the basic premise comes down to a Conservative government was fiscally responsible social programs with money going to those most in need. The Conservatives believe in less government, not more. A conservative government believes that the individual knows better how to spend their money, and where, than does a federal government. That is what I believe a conservative government will do. Basically, more conservatives, less government. More liberals, more government. I prefer less government and more personal choice, myself.
Re: RE: How will a Conservative government be better?
...and you know this how, exactly?
bluealberta said:
...and you know this how, exactly?
RE: How will a Conservati
We've consistently seen Conservative and neo-conservative governments be fiscally irresponsible though Blue, especially as their policies relate to those in our society who need it most.
Why should anybody support Harper? The policies he's pushing have been failing all over the planet for a quarter of a century.
We've consistently seen Conservative and neo-conservative governments be fiscally irresponsible though Blue, especially as their policies relate to those in our society who need it most.
Why should anybody support Harper? The policies he's pushing have been failing all over the planet for a quarter of a century.
RE: How will a Conservati
Gays,natives, muslims, Africans...The CPC hates pretty much everybody except for white Christians. Now some boob will pop up and point to how diverse their caucus is. The thing is that the minorities in their caucus are there because they hate somebody else.
What I can't figure out is where they find time for so much hatred. Most of us are way to busy for that.
Gays,natives, muslims, Africans...The CPC hates pretty much everybody except for white Christians. Now some boob will pop up and point to how diverse their caucus is. The thing is that the minorities in their caucus are there because they hate somebody else.
What I can't figure out is where they find time for so much hatred. Most of us are way to busy for that.
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