How will a Conservative government be better?

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whicker

Electoral Member
Feb 20, 2005
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MMMike and Rev
I am thanking you for your patience but, just for an illustration on how much patience might be required.
I believe it was Mike that used the letters mlas and I thought that he was referring to multiple listings ads/agents :oops: Why I have not any idea :oops: :oops: I have been doing some searching on the govt site and what do you know, it stands for members of legislative assembly :eek:ccasion5:
Thought this would either give you a laugh or head you both for the hills :lol:
 

OakServe

Nominee Member
Apr 22, 2005
77
1
8
Vancouver B.C., Canada
RE: How will a Conservati

ugh... both liberals and conservatives make me tired. i will vote NDP as usual,, although i dont know why i bother voting at all seeing as the west coast has little effect on federal elections
 

Chake99

Nominee Member
Mar 26, 2005
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MMMike said:
And social is more efficient than private, a social service has only to balance its expenses with income while a private agency must turn a huge profit too.

So with social services on average people end up paying less

:laughing3: That's a good one. That must be why it cost the taxpayer $2 billion dollars to create a list of gun owners. A LIST! I guess since government is more efficient than private enterprise, we should get into the auto making business and put GM out of business. Or lets start in IT - look out big blue! It must be more efficient then, if the government took control of all business in the entire country. Oh wait, that's been tried before.

Give your head a shake! :scratch:
The gun registry was an embarrassment to the country, but I doubt Healthcare for example is run anywhere close to as inneficiently.

Companies have to pull something like a %10 profit. Private hospitals would be more efficient but not 10% more. But non-for profit ones may work the best and combine the goos things from each...

In Ontario the conservatives privatized power, the price didn't go down, it went up and the Conservative had to freeze the price before it went out of control. If private was that much more efficient hydro (why we call power hydro is beyond me, well actually it isn't but I still think its weird) would have gone down.
 

Chake99

Nominee Member
Mar 26, 2005
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smitty295 said:
a conservitive governemtn will be much better because honesty if we have paul martins corrupt librals winning office again this coutries going literally to hell because prostitution will be legalised, gay marige is legalised, pot is legalised as well as puligomy and god knows what else,
I won't deny that the liberals are corrupt, but they still aren't as bad as the conservatives, and what do you care if gay marriage is legalized? And pot only is about as bad as smoking yet many people end up getting criminal records for possessing it. As for polygamy and prostitution, I must ask you what planet you are on.
than theres the blocs who all they want is to make quebec its own county plain and simple,
or maybe they want to blackmail Ottawa for money...
than finnaly NDP who all jack layton is, is an environment sucker
Stephen Harper would be the environment sucker. Jack Layton would be the environmental sucker.
who wants to waste millions of dollars on kyoto and mnay other environmentaly freindly stuff.
spend would be the apt word, and I don't think I would mind it to much if he could do it while maintaining a balanced budget
I think Steven Harpers the best choice because he will strenghthen are military which should be a priority considering are military right now!
The Liberals said they would strengthen it in numbers by the same amount as the conservatives, but would manage a balanced budget besides. The cons would improve numbers and buy outdated tanks
He also promoses missile deffense which I beleive is a good think to do i dont care what people say.
what a beautiful place the world would be if everyon went on preaching what they thought everyone else should do in their own pig-headed way without bothering to listen to each other
well thats my oppinion. :!:
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
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Toronto
The gun registry was an embarrassment to the country, but I doubt Healthcare for example is run anywhere close to as inneficiently.

Healthcare, like any government run program, is a bloated, inefficient behemoth that is going to bankrupt this country.

Companies have to pull something like a %10 profit. Private hospitals would be more efficient but not 10% more. But non-for profit ones may work the best and combine the goos things from each...

The theory is the same, if it is healthcare or car manufacturing or anything else. In the private sector there is an everpresent, overwhelming drive for efficiency. In the public sector, there is no drive at all, no reason to work hard, no reason to do things better. Bloated bureaucracies, overpaid, inflexible union workers, it goes on and on. If government can really do anything more efficiently than the private sector, tell me why communism failed?

In Ontario the conservatives privatized power, the price didn't go down, it went up and the Conservative had to freeze the price before it went out of control. If private was that much more efficient hydro (why we call power hydro is beyond me, well actually it isn't but I still think its weird) would have gone down.

The price had to go up - it was always massively subsidized by the taxpayer. Look at the debt left by Ontario Hydro - it numbers in the billions.
 
Everyone points to Mulroney and says corruption. But didn't he sue for libel, and win, over those allegations?

Every Liberal mp I've ever met has either been a fruitcake or a jack ass, every Conservative has been polite, reasonable, and all around come across as nice people.

It's pretty much impossible for the liberals to campaign on them being innocent and not corrupt, but they have successfully convinced the public that the Conservatives are equally opportunist and corrupt.

But how can anyone buy it? I mean the Liberals have PROVEN that they have no interest in serving anyone other than themselves and their friends, whereas the Conservatives may or may not be. I mean at least we have a chance with the Conservatives.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: How will a Conservati

Mulroney lost an average of one cabinet minister a year to scandal when he was PM, peppy. He also had some MPs who were doing weekends in jail. His government is still the most corrupt we've seen.

I have yet to meet a Conservative politician that came across and polite and reasonable. I had one here the election before last that was so rude and confrontational that I had to threaten to sick the dogs on before he'd get off my damned step.
 

SirKevin

Electoral Member
Feb 8, 2005
105
0
16
Toronto
smitty295 said:
a conservitive governemtn will be much better because honesty if we have paul martins corrupt librals winning office again this coutries going literally to hell because prostitution will be legalised, gay marige is legalised, pot is legalised as well as puligomy and god knows what else, than theres the blocs who all they want is to make quebec its own county plain and simple, than finnaly NDP who all jack layton is, is an environment sucker who wants to waste millions of dollars on kyoto and mnay other environmentaly freindly stuff. I think Steven Harpers the best choice because he will strenghthen are military which should be a priority considering are military right now! He also promoses missile deffense which I beleive is a good think to do i dont care what people say. well thats my oppinion. :!:

What in the name of Jesus are you talking about?
 

SirKevin

Electoral Member
Feb 8, 2005
105
0
16
Toronto
Re: RE: How will a Conservative government be better?

p106_peppy said:
Every Liberal mp I've ever met has either been a fruitcake or a jack ass, every Conservative has been polite, reasonable, and all around come across as nice people.

Heh...does Cheryl Gallant come to mind? How about Mr. Harper himself?

I could care less as to whether or not an MP is "nice"; I'll take a jackass with good policy orientation over a "polite" social/fiscal conservative any day.

p106_peppy said:
It's pretty much impossible for the liberals to campaign on them being innocent and not corrupt, but they have successfully convinced the public that the Conservatives are equally opportunist and corrupt.

But how can anyone buy it? I mean the Liberals have PROVEN that they have no interest in serving anyone other than themselves and their friends, whereas the Conservatives may or may not be. I mean at least we have a chance with the Conservatives.

It doesn't really matter if the Conservatives are sincere in wanting to serve the public; their platform proposes the wrong way of doing it. Sincerity doesn't equal good policy.

I'm not at all endorsing the Liberals, FYI. We have the current government in a position where we can squeeze good policy out of them, why aren't we?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
SirKevin said:
smitty295 said:
a conservitive governemtn will be much better because honesty if we have paul martins corrupt librals winning office again this coutries going literally to hell because prostitution will be legalised, gay marige is legalised, pot is legalised as well as puligomy and god knows what else, than theres the blocs who all they want is to make quebec its own county plain and simple, than finnaly NDP who all jack layton is, is an environment sucker who wants to waste millions of dollars on kyoto and mnay other environmentaly freindly stuff. I think Steven Harpers the best choice because he will strenghthen are military which should be a priority considering are military right now! He also promoses missile deffense which I beleive is a good think to do i dont care what people say. well thats my oppinion. :!:

What in the name of Jesus are you talking about?

I think Jesus is exactly what she's talking about :p
 

SirKevin

Electoral Member
Feb 8, 2005
105
0
16
Toronto
I think not said:
SirKevin said:
smitty295 said:
a conservitive governemtn will be much better because honesty if we have paul martins corrupt librals winning office again this coutries going literally to hell because prostitution will be legalised, gay marige is legalised, pot is legalised as well as puligomy and god knows what else, than theres the blocs who all they want is to make quebec its own county plain and simple, than finnaly NDP who all jack layton is, is an environment sucker who wants to waste millions of dollars on kyoto and mnay other environmentaly freindly stuff. I think Steven Harpers the best choice because he will strenghthen are military which should be a priority considering are military right now! He also promoses missile deffense which I beleive is a good think to do i dont care what people say. well thats my oppinion. :!:

What in the name of Jesus are you talking about?

I think Jesus is exactly what she's talking about :p

LOL.

Leviticus enters the federal political arena 8)

But wait...I'd think Jesus showed slightly more compassion towards protsitutes, homosexuals and drug addicts than this character seems to want to convey.
 

Chake99

Nominee Member
Mar 26, 2005
94
0
6
Re: RE: How will a Conservative government be better?

p106_peppy said:
Everyone points to Mulroney and says corruption. But didn't he sue for libel, and win, over those allegations?

Every Liberal mp I've ever met has either been a fruitcake or a jack ass, every Conservative has been polite, reasonable, and all around come across as nice people.

It's pretty much impossible for the liberals to campaign on them being innocent and not corrupt, but they have successfully convinced the public that the Conservatives are equally opportunist and corrupt.

But how can anyone buy it? I mean the Liberals have PROVEN that they have no interest in serving anyone other than themselves and their friends, whereas the Conservatives may or may no t be. I mean at least we have a chance with the Conservatives.
the liberals maybe corrupt but they are more honest than the conservatives. When a scandal comes around they don't cover their ass, and when there is a deficit they don't hide it and blame it on the next administration, they higher taxes, which regardless of whether it is the right thing to do, is one of the responsible things to do.

If the liberals had proven that this is how there policy is why would they order a public inquiry?

The conservatives had scandals, but they did not try to expose it as much as the liberals had. Why would the liberals bother to expose themselves if they weren't trying to purge themselves.

The thing is the liberals are so on the spot now that I highly doubt any of them will do anything even remotely corrupt, as that would probably doom them.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
2,004
0
36
Proud to be in Alberta
Hi again, been gone for the weekend, but have read some interesteing posts. There are a few about healthcare. Recently, there was an article in Readers Digest about waiting times vis-a-vis Canada and the United States. The short version is that the US has much shorter waiting lists. However, to be fair, I thought that only by comparing the costs and income tax rates could a fair comparison be done. Getting tax rates for 2004 from the IRS website, in addtion to health care premiums, coverage, and information on other tax matters like mortgage interest deductions, the following was discovered:

The vast majority of health care costs in the US are emplyee/employer sharing. The total premium is just under $10k, so for the sake of argument, say $10k. Comparing a $50k wage earner in Canada (about $10k above the average) with a $40K earner in the US (with exchange, about the same) it was determined that the basic income tax, excluding state, sales, etc. taxes is about $4K less in the US than in Canada.

With family health care premiums under a shared cost of approx. $10k, the employer contribution is $2,661 (exactly). In Alberta, family health care premiums total very close to $1k, so in effect, there is a $1.6k difference between Alberta premium cost and US employer contribution costs.

As the income tax difference is approximately $4k, the net difference to the US employee results in a net savings of $2,400 ($4000 tax savings less $1600 health care premium difference). his does not take into consideration the mortgage interest rate deduction available.

According to the Readers Digest, which I don't think can be accused of being either right or left wing, 1/3 of Canadian health care administrators said that patients wating for elective surgery either "often" or "very often" had to wait six months or more. Of 205 US Administators asked the same question, none of the m said a wait happened
very ofgten" , and onley 1% said in happend often. Fully 93% said it happend rarely or never. In addidtion, 3% of Canadian hospitals claimed hip replacement was done in less then three weeks, but 86% of US hospitals surveyed did it within three weeks. There are more stats in the April, 2005 edition of the Readers Digests which are available.

Further research into the US style of health care also revealed that Mecicare and Medicaid were provided at less cost than Canadian Health Care costs.

In other words, in the US, the tax rates are much less which gives the individual the opportunity to pay for his health care costs himself, and although these costs may be higher, there is less money taken from the average worker in taxes which leaves the worker more disposable income to take care of him or herself and his or her family. I also checked with relatives I have in the US, and they confirmed that their health care, while appearing on the surface to be expensive, is not as bad as appears when everything is taken into consideration. Some of these relatives have moved from Canada to the US, and freely tell me that they have as good or better health care in the US than they have in Canada, with more disposable income.

However, to make it clear, I do not support, and never will support, a fully private health care system, but would certainly support at least looking into a further mix of private and public health care delivery. After all, when people have to wait up to six months for a knee replacement in Canada, how can this be described as a great system?

Sorry for the length, but I wanted to make sure I had the right info for the Rev and his other cronies. And by the way, Rev, nothing you can say "would make me cry". (See April 22 post) Being a conservative all my life, I have heard all the lies and innuendos that go along with this. You are a baby when it comes to this stuff. My mother also got a great kick out of being told that I would be whoring her out, she wondered if there was a market for a 68 year old divorced mother of five. I said I would ask the Rev if he was interested? Sticks and stones, Rev, sticks and stones.
 

Chake99

Nominee Member
Mar 26, 2005
94
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6
RE: How will a Conservati

So I guess we should go for non-for-profit companies paid for through taxes if what you are saying is conclusive, which I don't believe it is.

If the reader digest published such a study btw it would HAVE to be right-wing biased :)
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
2,004
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36
Proud to be in Alberta
Chake: No, you missed my point. I think that a mix of public and private health care is the answer to the marjority of our problems and concerns about Canadian Health Care. A lot of our health care system now is a mix, so what is wrong with at least exploring this a little further. What frustrates me and a lot of others is that we as Canadians point to our health care system as the be all of being a Canadian, but then turn around and says that Health Care is our biggest priority and it has to be fixed. If it is so good, why do we continually have to be told it has to be fixed? Simply putting more money into the system will not work. The last time the nurses in Alta went on strike, they supposedly wanted more beds. Once the strike was over, all the increases went to wages, not to actual hospitals. We simply must look at other options if we are to get value for the money we pay into this system. Again I ask, if the system is so great, why are people waiting so long for hip replacement surgery in this country? I work with a gentleman who is on this list, and is a local Union Rep, which pretty much means he is not right wing. Even he is starting to question this, and this questioning by someone of his political leaning is very telling. Do you think we get value for our money now?
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
2,004
0
36
Proud to be in Alberta
Re: RE: How will a Conservati

Chake99 said:
So I guess we should go for non-for-profit companies paid for through taxes if what you are saying is conclusive, which I don't believe it is.

If the reader digest published such a study btw it would HAVE to be right-wing biased :)

Why?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
Re: RE: How will a Conservati

Chake99 said:
So I guess we should go for non-for-profit companies paid for through taxes if what you are saying is conclusive, which I don't believe it is.

If the reader digest published such a study btw it would HAVE to be right-wing biased :)

Non-for-profits are paid for through taxes? :?
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
2,004
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36
Proud to be in Alberta
Chake: Sorry. sometimes my computer skills are less than what I think they should be. What I was questioning was why you think the RD is a right wing publication? AFter way too many years of reading this, I did not give it any kind of bias at all, so am wondering on what basis you make this statement.

Regarding Corps, I have no problems with profits. What I would like to see is private clinics or hospitals funded by the public system at the same rate as public hospitals. There is only one way to reduce waiting lists and times and that is to get more people doing more surgeries. If a private corp can put together a business plan to allow that corp to open a private clinic or hospital and with the surgeries being funded by the public system, then this will put more doctors in the system, which naturally leads to reduced waiting times.
 
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