How will a Conservative government be better?

[Chake99]

Blue alberta, any service could be seen as a never-ending hole (social or otherwise). What we should be trying to do is getting that hole to spit more out for what we put in.

We should try to get the best system that does that with equality, regardless of what mix it is of private and public.

 

[bluealberta]

Blue alberta, any service could be seen as a never-ending hole (social or otherwise). What we should be trying to do is getting that hole to spit more out for what we put in.

We should try to get the best system that does that with equality, regardless of what mix it is of private and public.

Agree totally. What is really frustrating, though, is that for some of us, it seems that a lot of people think that simply pouring more money isto the system will fix it, which in my opinion, has proven to be incorrect. I reiterate that we need more access, and if that means exploring all options in a meaningful way, then let's do it, but without the whining and crying that private health care will destroy our health care system. It is not a great system anway, and while I am not one, some folks suggest that destroying it and starting over would be the best thing. There is something I think the more vocal defenders of the health care system have to realize. When this system was put into place back in the 60's, the lifestyles, technology and services were so different. To paraphrase, Our Health Care ainb't your Daddy's Health Care. I think that what passed for basic health care in the 60's is totally different than now, and what passes for relatively normal surgeries (joint replacements, for one) were not even considered at that time. As a result, perhaps it is safe to say that the original vision of Tommy Douglas never considered (and how could he) what the health system would evolve into. Just a thought.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: How will a Conservative government be better?

France, which is considered to have the best health care system in the world, is two tier.

And as it is, although we don’t officially have private health care, our close proximity to the United States makes it impossible for the government of Canada to keep a true monopoly.

The best and the brightest of our doctors and nurses are already heading south. And rich Canadian citizens go to mayo clinics in the states. Allowing private health care in Canada would just mean keeping workers and money within our own economy.

Cuba has the best health care system in the world, mon ami.

According to WHO, France ranked first and Cuba ranked 39th.

 

[Scape]

What we have to realize is that our health care system back in 1995 was funded 50-50 between the provinces and the federal government. Twice (both times with PAUL MARTIN AS THE FINANCE MINISTER) the feds clawed back their commitment. Now we have 80% of the burden of our heath care system being paid by the provinces and a paltry 20% by the federal government. Where is the standardization of our medical system? There is none. What is covered under one province is considered elective in another creating a system where not only are we competing with the Americans for skilled labour but with each other as well. Instead of 1 consistent and efficiently run system we now have 13 underfunded, over stretched and dangerous unprepared for the demographic boom on the system that will inevitably hit it as the baby boomer generation hits retirement age. The increased demand on the medical system will be just at a time when the only provinces that will have a system will be the have provinces who can foot the bill.

So to recap, the demand will be growing exponentially as our population ages and the funding has been dropping from the Federal coffers. They system does work but like a car that hasn't had its oil changed in years the system degraded and now we are expecting the system to do twice the work. Privatization is not addressing the real reasons why we are in this situation to begin with nor do I think is it even a solution to pursue in the 1st place as it will be put in direct competition with the very system it is supposed to supplement.

 

[I think not]

I found this article since this discussion drifted into health care. It's pretty lengthy, but interesting.

Brian Lee Crowley is the President of the Atlantic Institute of Market Studies located in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada:

The Top Ten Things People Believe About Canadian Health Care, But Shouldn't

 

[bluealberta]

So to recap, the demand will be growing exponentially as our population ages and the funding has been dropping from the Federal coffers. They system does work but like a car that hasn't had its oil changed in years the system degraded and now we are expecting the system to do twice the work. Privatization is not addressing the real reasons why we are in this situation to begin with nor do I think is it even a solution to pursue in the 1st place as it will be put in direct competition with the very system it is supposed to supplement.

So, if we seem to agree there is a problem and the problem will probably get worse in the future, but some of you think that having a public/private mix is not the answer, then what is? At least those of us supporting the mix have new ideas. Do we also have to reevaluate what our basic services are supposed to be that are covered by health care? Should we have user fees? Some sort of deductible like other insurance coverage? I'm just throwing ideas out, but I really like some sort of public/private mix that allows more patients to be put through the system faster. However, the other part of this approach has got to be to put more money back into our pockets to be able to pay for more of our health care with our own dollars. That is essential, I think, for any type of improvement in the system. Just as a further note, does anyone else find it frustrating to know that under our system, a clinic like the Mayo Clinic would not be allowed to operate in Canada. Somehow, this kind of sums up why our system is broken. The only thing now is to wonder if it can be fixed, or is it beyond repair.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Romanow Report on The Future of Healthcare in Canada

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

Re: RE: How will a Conservative government be better?

France, which is considered to have the best health care system in the world, is two tier.

And as it is, although we don’t officially have private health care, our close proximity to the United States makes it impossible for the government of Canada to keep a true monopoly.

The best and the brightest of our doctors and nurses are already heading south. And rich Canadian citizens go to mayo clinics in the states. Allowing private health care in Canada would just mean keeping workers and money within our own economy.

Cuba has the best health care system in the world, mon ami.

According to WHO, France ranked first and Cuba ranked 39th.

Right, but the reason the French have the best healthcare is not that because they have a two-tier system, as was implied earlier; it's largely because they spend over 10 per cent of GDP on that system. People have to pay a proportion of the costs themselves, usually via insurance, but the gov't still pay 70 per cent of the costs, on average. Also, the private and public hospitals in France have very similar standards, and waiting lists there is no queue-jumping for those who go private. Most also cost about the same to use (they have a tariff system of charges, which 97% of French hospitals, public or private, work within) so to call it two-tier is somewhat misleading.

 

[bluealberta]

Romanow Report on The Future of Healthcare in Canada

You are kidding, I hope? That was nothing more than "let's put more money into it, and it will get better". Even the Liberals and NDP won't talk about this.

 

[I think not]

Romanow Report on The Future of Healthcare in Canada

The hell Vanni , thats just under 400 pages. But I shall make an effort.

 

[MMMike]

Private industry does not ensure the safety of vehicles or buildings, government does...

Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards -- A function of Transport Canada

National Building Code of Canada -- A function of The National Research Council of Canada

Vanni, professional architects and engineers design buildings, contractors build them. Building permit review does not extend far beyond checking for the appropriate design professionals' stamp. To say that the government ensures public safety is ridiculous. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Scape]

Romanow Report on The Future of Healthcare in Canada

You are kidding, I hope? That was nothing more than "let's put more money into it, and it will get better". Even the Liberals and NDP won't talk about this.

What we are putting into health care now is not what it was originally designed for and it can only go on like that for so long before a serious crisis erupts. Add to that the demand has been steadily rising it would be irresponsible NOT to put more money into it now to save they system from a collapse. The health care system is far from the write off stage and that is the point of privatization. No political party will have the Romanow report on their platform because currently no platform will be able to support it politically, especially in a minority government that could collapse at any time. That does not mean that the report is completely off base. The fact that no mainstream party will adopt it has actually given it objective legitimacy as there is no party currently that will not put politics before the people.

 

[I think not]

Can anyone tell me if the link I put up a few posts back is true or not? Or is someone just trying to get attention? Thanks.

 

[Chake99]

Scape you mean there is no part that will pit the well-being of the people ahead of their opinion.

And for good reason to, if they did half the country would be yelling tyranny...

which actually would be a great form of government if there was complete assurance thet tyrant would always put the people ahead of his own interests and be totally incorruptible..

which of course is impossible.

 

[Reverend Blair]

You are kidding, I hope? That was nothing more than "let's put more money into it, and it will get better". Even the Liberals and NDP won't talk about this.

If you read the report you will find that there are several recommendations in there on how to actually save money, MMMikey. Some of them do require some initial capital, but they save in the long term.

BTW, you'll find that the NDP plan constantly refers back to the Romanow Report...

•We’ll implement Roy Romanow’s recommendation of
fair, predictable federal funding for public health care by
ensuring the federal contribution for health care hits
25%, up from the current 16%.

Linky

 

[Scape]

I stand corrected. Even the Romanow report only asks for 25% that is still half of what was funded. No wonder there are wait lines.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: How will a Conservati

There are many other measures in there though, Scape. The funding issue is also one that rolls out over the long term. It's a very workable plan, which is why the Matinites and the Harperites are so afraid of it.

 

[Scape]

The Harper Plan

The Conservative Party of Canada believes all Canadians should have reasonable access to quality health care regardless of their ability to pay.


The Conservative Party of Canada believes spending decisions and setting priorities within the health care funding envelope should be left with the provinces.

A Conservative government will provide a stable level of federal funding for health care and will work with the provinces in a co-operative and constructive manner.

Health Care Innovation— A Conservative government will support health care research and development of new health care technologies.

A Conservative government will be open to innovations which would reduce waiting lists, improve the quality of care, and ensure better coordination and information sharing in the delivery of health.

A Conservative government will not be afraid to implement new advances so that all Canadians can benefit from a modern effective health system tailored to meet their needs.

The Conservative government promises to restore the 50/50 shared costs between the provinces and the federal government.

Comment?

 

[Said1]

I think Paul Martin is desperate and looking to buy time. However living in Ontario I am not a fan of Stephen Harper. This guy does not have what it takes to be PM. First of all he would be George Bush's puppet. I believe that both these guys are too far right and are too dangerous for us traditional conservatives. I believe that we should wait to see what the inquiry says and go to the polls then. If people have do not have faith in the system then why bother having courts? When it is all said and done, I think Martin will destroy himself. Until then our country has to move forward on other more important issues. Talking about the scandal in caucus every day is a waste of time!

I agree with you on Harper, although I think he's more fake than dangerous, regardless, I don't think has what it takes to be PM either. I feel Martin on the other hand was doomed from the very beginning. His 15 minutes are over; the wonded puppy look is getting old, time to find a warm spot and retreat.

 

[bluealberta]

The conservative platform is what many of us have been saying for years, get the funding levels back, and give the provinces back a lot of the responsibilities guaranteed in the constitution. Over the years, mostly liberal govts have taken away this and other responsibilities from the provinces in the belief that a strong central government is essential to this country. It is my understanding that a central government is to give us good fiscal governance (failure there), a method of defence (oops, another failure), and a good immigration policy (remember Romanian strippers? 0 fir 3) Health and education are the responsibility of the provinces, according to the constitution. I am also not naive enough to think that all the fine words in the platform mean anything unless someone has the stones to actually try and implement them, and not pay attention to the whining and complaining of the self interest groups. I really like the platform, and I guess this means that the Liberals cannot lie and say that the Conservative health care program is a "hidden agenda". I really hope the Liberals (hard not to type Lieberals) stay away from that crap if we have an election soon.