How will a Conservative government be better?

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Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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In the long run new technologies do bring about jobs. But new technologies require training and an adoption period, or worse … potentially re-training a workforce that was decimated from Kyoto reform.

As opposed to what? We already know about peak oil...should we wait for our economy to be decimated by that instead? We have five years before we have to start paying penalties. Most of the technologies needed to meet our current goals are already existing. A lot of them have been around for thirty years now. Many others are just common sense.

That takes care of much of the training period. I can already drive a four cylinder car. I don't know a single mechanic who can't install a four cylinder engine. I can teach you proper insulating and vapour barriering practices in a day. We already know how to plant trees for windbreaks...we pioneered it in the 1930's. We used to know the importance of streetcars. I'm only 40 and I can remember riding on buses that had rods running up to overhead wires.

. One of the arguments against Kyoto has been the short timeline to meet the targeted reductions causing too much of a shock to the countries economy.

The timeline was a lot longer, but massive opposition from the fossil fuel and auto industries delayed the implementation. Maybe they shouldn't have done that, but don't try to blame their foot-dragging and bullshit on the people who have been trying to move ahead.

The Canadian reductions would not have much of an effect in the global totals

And if we don't do it, then that guy over there will use us an an excuse to shirk his responsibility too. I thought all this Albertan conservatism was about taking responsibility, not finding excuses not to.

many countries are also making that argument and using it to justify non-adoption of the accord,

And if your friend jumped off a bridge....

What are these "many countries" anyway? The US? Piss on them. If they want to become a technological backwater as well as an international pariah, that's their problem.

It’s the fact that Kyoto compares emissions on a country by country basis in relation to population.

How else could you do it? Average height? Breast size of the national beauty pageant winner? Most arrests of the national leader? Yeah...you're going to say GNP. Piss on that. If it doesn't count for foreign aid (there's that 0.7% figure that nobody seems to bother with) then it doesn't count for this. More to the point...global warming is not determined by how rich we are, it's determined by how much greenhouse gas we spew.

So we get nailed because we emit more than we should for the amount of people we have

Poor us. We are so picked on. The rest of the world should be proud of us for being pigs and squandering our resources while destroying the environment.

Canadian reduction wont make much of an impact on a Global scale because our emissions are miniscule in comparison to other countries.

It will though because we can develop technologies that we can then sell to other countries. We can set an example of how things should be done. We can save so much money on energy that beer will be free. (maybe not that last one, but it will seem like it's free because we have so much left over from the heating budget)

If you wanted to make a difference you have to go to the heart of the problem, stand up to China as a nation, force them to stop burning coal and polluting the environment at an astronomically high rate, then and only then will you see a global impact.

So you support NDP trade initiatives then? Wanna buy a membership? :wink:

Seriously though...China has virtually no energy infrastructure. They will buy whatever we sell them as long as they can keep employing their political prisoners to make Barbie Dolls. It is up to us to sell them clean technology. We (western nations, not just Canada) are already selling them cleaner coal technology, energy efficient houses, hydro-electric knowhow, wind technology, and hydrogen technology.

The “short term” hit you talk about “could” cripple oil & gas and manufacturing in this country.

By the oil industry's own figures, implementing Kyoto will only cost them between 7 and 25 cents per barrel, depending on extraction costs. That's far from crippling, especially with $50/bbl oil.

lets support a plan that will target the major offenders in the world before we take risks with our own economy.

We are a major offender. Look at the numbers. 2% of emissions with 0.0006% of the population. That's brutal....bigger than the Brink's robbery, more than Bonnie and Clyde ever stole, far more heinous than anything the James gang ever did.



In any rate my intent of that comment was not to throw this thread into another direction, we should start a Kyoto thread for that one.

We have one...it's full of links showing that global warming is real and the naysayers are charlatans and frauds.


I really don’t know that they will to be honest but I think the liberal party (or any party that engages in this activity) and the offending individuals should start getting punished for this behavior … yes, you just heard an Albertan say they really don’t know if the conservatives will make a difference.

The Conservatives have not put forth one single suggestion on how to reduce corruption in government.

However, they are the party that is taking the most about government reform …

No, actually, the NDP are the only party talking about government reform, at least in any concrete way. Wanna buy a membership? :wink:

Seriously though...if you want to at least reduce corruption then there are two things you need to push. First thing is to get rid of donations by anybody but eligible voters...no corporations, no unions, no special interests. The other thing is PR. It is very difficult to be successfully corrupt when you are forced to work with your political foes every day.
 

WarHawk

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May 9, 2005
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RE: How will a Conservati

Better get used to the idea of having a conservative government in power, because it's going to happen.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: How will a Conservati

Not according to the polls. Even if you managed a minority though, you'd quickly find that you had even less power than you did in opposition.
 

Scape

Electoral Member
Nov 12, 2004
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What pisses me off is the fact that no matter what happens if the election is held in 2005 or 2006 we will have a castrated minority government with little power to govern. Clearly no party will be given a mandate to rule with authority and a majority government seems a distant memory at this point while the cause of separation from Canada east or west is gaining momentum that just can not be countered. The longer this impasse plays out the less likely Canada will survive at all.
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
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I agree with you Scape this looks like a good recipe for breaking up Canada :x and I think theres more behind it than just are politicians :? There's other outside forces at work here 8O
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: How will a Conservati

The thing is that a minority government, if these fools would smarten up and do their jobs, could be very beneficial for national unity. With each of the opposition parties having a voice, compromises could be reached and people in Quebec and Alberta would see that progress was being made.

The current divisions, based on nothing more than partisan politics, are doing just the opposite. Government is stalled and anybody who pays attention to politics in this country is about ready to start strangling our leaders.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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The Rev wrote:

"And if we don't do it, then that guy over there will use us an an excuse to shirk his responsibility too. I thought all this Albertan conservatism was about taking responsibility, not finding excuses not to. "

Actually, Alberta is way ahead of everyone else in the country simply because of our industry in gas an oil. Alberta is taking the intitiative to produce emission reducing technology. Alberta has had windmill farms for a number of years now, and the numbers keep increasing. So, Rev, we are upholding our conservatism by taking responsibility, and taking the initiative to be proactive already. We just don't need a treaty to tell us how to do it, that's all.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Re: RE: How will a Conservati

Reverend Blair said:
The thing is that a minority government, if these fools would smarten up and do their jobs, could be very beneficial for national unity. With each of the opposition parties having a voice, compromises could be reached and people in Quebec and Alberta would see that progress was being made.

The current divisions, based on nothing more than partisan politics, are doing just the opposite. Government is stalled and anybody who pays attention to politics in this country is about ready to start strangling our leaders.

If the next election produces a minority government, it is highly likely that they will govern for at least two years. Whichever leader loses will be turfed by the party, with the resulting leadership convention, probably next spring, if there is an election in June this year. As a result, there would probably not be an election due to a confidence vote until the next years budget, at which time the ruling party may engineer it's own demise.

Actually, I am kind of hoping the Liberals win, then Quebec can pursue it's separation dream, and western separtism will get louder and louder, and the Liberanos will be known forever as the party in power when the breakup of Bananada occured. :wink:
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
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Great then the next thing you know will be annexed by the US and we can all live happily ever after in the police state :roll:
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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mrmom2 said:
Great then the next thing you know will be annexed by the US and we can all live happily ever after in the police state :roll:

I think if you read my past posts, my support would be in favor of a separate region, not part of the US. Having said that, our trade routes in Western Canada, including BC, are certainly more attuned with north/south now than east/west, so having a good relationship with the US would be to this new regions benefit. Join the US? I think not at this point in time. Establish a separate economic region? Worth exploring, as many people are now starting to do.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Alberta is taking the intitiative to produce emission reducing technology.

Like burning relatively clean natural gas to produce dirty oil? That's about as irresponsible as you can get.

Alberta has had windmill farms for a number of years now, and the numbers keep increasing.

Most of your electricity is still produced by burning coal.

We just don't need a treaty to tell us how to do it, that's all.

You don't seem capable of understanding that treaties are about more than just you. You have also increased the amount of greenhouse gas that you produce since Kyoto was originally signed, so saying that you don't need something to get you to comply is disingenuous.

If the next election produces a minority government, it is highly likely that they will govern for at least two years.

Not if it's a Conservative government and they try to push their agenda past the other parties.

Whichever leader loses will be turfed by the party, with the resulting leadership convention, probably next spring, if there is an election in June this year.

If Harper doesn't get at least a large minority, he will be gone. He's had several chances and has failed to make substantial gains.

Martin is going to step down anyway. He's pushing 70 and it's beginning to show. Just watch...it will be amicable and he will be replaced with somebody from the centre-left of the Liberals who can build bridges between the warring factions.

Actually, I am kind of hoping the Liberals win, then Quebec can pursue it's separation dream, and western separtism will get louder and louder, and the Liberanos will be known forever as the party in power when the breakup of Bananada occured.

Oh yeah, more anti-Canadian gibberish from the Alberta separtists.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
Re: RE: How will a Conservati

WarHawk said:
Can BC come too?

Yes Warhawk thats just a dandy idea :roll: , we so much hate having to fly to Alaska or be detained at your border. And I think Peapod will have a heart attack and you dont want to do that to her do you? Plus you'll get stuck drinking Budweiser :p
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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the-brights.net
Re: RE: How will a Conservati

bluealberta said:
Actually, I am kind of hoping the Liberals win, then Quebec can pursue it's separation dream, and western separtism will get louder and louder, and the Liberanos will be known forever as the party in power when the breakup of Bananada occured. :wink:

Yeah, written like a true and staunch supporter of Canadian sovereignty...

To bad treason was not considered a capital crime...
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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So forgive me here for sounding ignorant, but theoretically speaking, any province can leave Canada if they agreed? Or is this too far fetched even to consider it practical?
 

WarHawk

New Member
May 9, 2005
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Re: RE: How will a Conservati

I think not said:
WarHawk said:
Can BC come too?

Yes Warhawk thats just a dandy idea :roll: , we so much hate having to fly to Alaska or be detained at your border.
I don't get it. The border would still be there. Who flys to Alaska of all places anyway?
and I think Peapod will have a heart attack and you dont want to do that to her do you?
boo hoo!
Plus you'll get stuck drinking Budweiser :p
Are you suggesting that we would join the USA? While yes that could be a possibility, but as far as i'm concerned the USA is better than Ottawa.
 
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