In the long run new technologies do bring about jobs. But new technologies require training and an adoption period, or worse … potentially re-training a workforce that was decimated from Kyoto reform.
As opposed to what? We already know about peak oil...should we wait for our economy to be decimated by that instead? We have five years before we have to start paying penalties. Most of the technologies needed to meet our current goals are already existing. A lot of them have been around for thirty years now. Many others are just common sense.
That takes care of much of the training period. I can already drive a four cylinder car. I don't know a single mechanic who can't install a four cylinder engine. I can teach you proper insulating and vapour barriering practices in a day. We already know how to plant trees for windbreaks...we pioneered it in the 1930's. We used to know the importance of streetcars. I'm only 40 and I can remember riding on buses that had rods running up to overhead wires.
. One of the arguments against Kyoto has been the short timeline to meet the targeted reductions causing too much of a shock to the countries economy.
The timeline was a lot longer, but massive opposition from the fossil fuel and auto industries delayed the implementation. Maybe they shouldn't have done that, but don't try to blame their foot-dragging and bullshit on the people who have been trying to move ahead.
The Canadian reductions would not have much of an effect in the global totals
And if we don't do it, then that guy over there will use us an an excuse to shirk his responsibility too. I thought all this Albertan conservatism was about taking responsibility, not finding excuses not to.
many countries are also making that argument and using it to justify non-adoption of the accord,
And if your friend jumped off a bridge....
What are these "many countries" anyway? The US? Piss on them. If they want to become a technological backwater as well as an international pariah, that's their problem.
It’s the fact that Kyoto compares emissions on a country by country basis in relation to population.
How else could you do it? Average height? Breast size of the national beauty pageant winner? Most arrests of the national leader? Yeah...you're going to say GNP. Piss on that. If it doesn't count for foreign aid (there's that 0.7% figure that nobody seems to bother with) then it doesn't count for this. More to the point...global warming is not determined by how rich we are, it's determined by how much greenhouse gas we spew.
So we get nailed because we emit more than we should for the amount of people we have
Poor us. We are so picked on. The rest of the world should be proud of us for being pigs and squandering our resources while destroying the environment.
Canadian reduction wont make much of an impact on a Global scale because our emissions are miniscule in comparison to other countries.
It will though because we can develop technologies that we can then sell to other countries. We can set an example of how things should be done. We can save so much money on energy that beer will be free. (maybe not that last one, but it will seem like it's free because we have so much left over from the heating budget)
If you wanted to make a difference you have to go to the heart of the problem, stand up to China as a nation, force them to stop burning coal and polluting the environment at an astronomically high rate, then and only then will you see a global impact.
So you support NDP trade initiatives then? Wanna buy a membership? :wink:
Seriously though...China has virtually no energy infrastructure. They will buy whatever we sell them as long as they can keep employing their political prisoners to make Barbie Dolls. It is up to us to sell them clean technology. We (western nations, not just Canada) are already selling them cleaner coal technology, energy efficient houses, hydro-electric knowhow, wind technology, and hydrogen technology.
The “short term” hit you talk about “could” cripple oil & gas and manufacturing in this country.
By the oil industry's own figures, implementing Kyoto will only cost them between 7 and 25 cents per barrel, depending on extraction costs. That's far from crippling, especially with $50/bbl oil.
lets support a plan that will target the major offenders in the world before we take risks with our own economy.
We are a major offender. Look at the numbers. 2% of emissions with 0.0006% of the population. That's brutal....bigger than the Brink's robbery, more than Bonnie and Clyde ever stole, far more heinous than anything the James gang ever did.
In any rate my intent of that comment was not to throw this thread into another direction, we should start a Kyoto thread for that one.
We have one...it's full of links showing that global warming is real and the naysayers are charlatans and frauds.
I really don’t know that they will to be honest but I think the liberal party (or any party that engages in this activity) and the offending individuals should start getting punished for this behavior … yes, you just heard an Albertan say they really don’t know if the conservatives will make a difference.
The Conservatives have not put forth one single suggestion on how to reduce corruption in government.
However, they are the party that is taking the most about government reform …
No, actually, the NDP are the only party talking about government reform, at least in any concrete way. Wanna buy a membership? :wink:
Seriously though...if you want to at least reduce corruption then there are two things you need to push. First thing is to get rid of donations by anybody but eligible voters...no corporations, no unions, no special interests. The other thing is PR. It is very difficult to be successfully corrupt when you are forced to work with your political foes every day.