HOW COGNITIVE HISTORY CAN CAUSE US TO MISPERCEIVE

PoisonPete2

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Apr 9, 2005
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Re: RE: HOW COGNITIVE HISTORY

Reverend Blair said:
Which is exactly why I'm going to have another beer. Then I'm going to go up on a wet ladder in the gathering darkness.

Do the ethnoanthropoligists have anything to say about wives who watch design shows, Pete? Somebody should write a paper...or maybe pass a law.

Answer - sorry if I'm driving your to drink. But the ladder thing sounds like a fine experience.

I'm sure analysis of women watching designer shows is in the works somewhere. In the end they will likely find that it is the woman who makes the man. Thus they watch T.V. for ideas on how to improve things while men watch football cos it goes well with beer and potato chips.

Just that it bothers me when people post items they don't understand as though to supports a position they haven't outlined
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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Just that it bothers me when people post items they don't understand as though to supports a position they haven't outlined

Doesn't that kind of go along with the anti-intellectual mindset that's become so popular lately though? Combine it with the DIY fad and suddenly...
Answer - sorry if I'm driving your to drink.

Don't apologise, I rather enjoy it.
 

jensonj

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Jan 29, 2005
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I think that a good example of the authors point of view could be made of and by the situation of the Falkland Islands in regards to their ownership. Argentina's Governments since 1900 have educated their people and have had the Islands indicated on all their offical maps that the Islands as part of their territory.

Argentina, which claims the islands in its constitution and briefly occupied the islands by force in 1982, agreed in 1995 to no longer seek settlement by force; UK continues to reject Argentine requests for sovereignty talks

Although first sighted by an English navigator in 1592, the first landing (English) did not occur until almost a century later in 1690, and the first settlement (French) was not established until 1764. The colony was turned over to Spain two years later and the islands have since been the subject of a territorial dispute, first between Britain and Spain, then between Britain and Argentina. The UK asserted its claim to the islands by establishing a naval garrison there in 1833. Argentina invaded the islands on 2 April 1982. The British responded with an expeditionary force that landed seven weeks later and after fierce fighting forced Argentine surrender on 14 June 1982.


http://www.raf.mod.uk/falklands/linepre1982.html
 

jimmoyer

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Apr 3, 2005
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Yep, we're back to the original idea of the article in exploring nations' mythology, despite GL Schmitt correctly debunking the examples the author used.

Whether a nation's mythology will override personal experience is still debateable.

I know a liberal is a conservative who was harrassed.
A conservative is a liberal who was mugged.

That's personal experience overriding an ideology.

What personal experience will override a particular nation's mythology? Well, I think that Falklands example shows how mythology of the nation influences the person.
 

unclepercy

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Jun 4, 2005
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Re: RE: HOW COGNITIVE HISTORY CAN CAUSE US TO MISPERCEIVE

PoisonPete2 said:
unclepercy said:
PoisonPete2 said:
Not the type of history I am thinking about. See, that's what the article was about - how beliefs and thinking processes differ according to history. I believe that personal life history is more significant than global history in determining your belief system.

If you were raped as a child, this will affect your life prognosis more than if you read in the paper that a child was raped in India.
Life history. Not propaganda.

Just a different perspective.

Uncle

Answer - you obviously did not read my post with any level of understanding, nor did you understand the original article. It is about accepting concensus over personal experience. I merely extrapolated on the view. It is about writing of the past in the zietgiest of the present. Nothing new or groundbreaking about the analysis, just in its application in the New World context.

This article, many ethnoanthropoligists, my view and the proponderance of philosophers and historiographers would take exception to your view that 'personal life history is more significant than global history in determining your belief system.' Much research and theory suggests that personal experience is most often abdicated in favour of group consensus. Check out 'false memories' research. The most powerful cult in our society to ensure this occurs are called Psychiatrists. It is the very basis of Propaganda. And Propaganda is so effective because it feeds into our bio/social makeup. To discover how 'socialized' your perception is, you would have to emmerse yourself into a distinctive other culture. And then note the difficulty in realigning to your former culture.

Don't try to snow me with big words. Proximity is the biggest factor in determining who you are and what you will become.
I can assure you that Canada had absolutely no bearing on how I turned out. I live in a different culture, and with the advent of the nuclear family - each family is an isolated group unto itself.
There was essentially no global history in my unbringing. Don't talk
to me about propaganda - this is word from the 1950's.

Now I admit that with better communication (instantaneous now)
global news would be more likely to affect group concensus. But from my personal experience, no one gives a rat's ass about what others think, except teenagers. We grew up. We live in a confident society where we agree on most of the basic ideological framework. For example, it is perfect fine to mention God, prayer, church, religion, etc. anytime.

The only slightly taboo subject in American is sex. Older people feel uncomfortable talking about it, and so they don't. That is accepted. Americans generally agree on what is normal behavior and what is not.

You did not read my post with any level of understanding. And this is what the article is saying. We are coming from different life experiences. We agree that skunks smell bad. We agree on a lot of things. But there are many things I don't know about you,
and vise versa.

THIS I KNOW - what happens to you personally is far more pertinent in your personality development than what happened to Gertrude in Germany. Proximity determines who your friends will be, who you will marry, what language you will speak, what you eat....Nature determines what you look like, if you are a night person, if you are allergic to milk, etc.

But also important is what your parents (or caregivers) gave to you during your childhood. Where they there when you needed them?
This is the central question that all adults talk about when they look back on their childhoods.

Proximity, genetics, and upbringing. That's what is important in personality development. You are hung up on background music.

Uncle
 

zenfisher

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Sep 12, 2004
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What you are saying was true twenty years ago Percival....but things have changed. Proximity is no longer a determining factor in how people relate to one another.
If what you are saying was true...there is no way I would ever have met my wife. If you willing to move...jobs are out there for you. The world has changed. People are far more mobile than they have ever been.

As for events that happen to you ...of course that is going to shape parts of your personality. That is part of growing.
 

unclepercy

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Jun 4, 2005
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Re: RE: HOW COGNITIVE HISTORY CAN CAUSE US TO MISPERCEIVE

zenfisher said:
What you are saying was true twenty years ago Percival....but things have changed. Proximity is no longer a determining factor in how people relate to one another.
If what you are saying was true...there is no way I would ever have met my wife. If you willing to move...jobs are out there for you. The world has changed. People are far more mobile than they have ever been.

As for events that happen to you ...of course that is going to shape parts of your personality. That is part of growing.

I agree that things have changed. However, proximity is still the most important factor in human relations. How can you and I have lunch tomorrow if you live so far away? It's just not practical. We will never meet.

Come on - proximity is everything - the most important dynamic in human development. A mother holds her infant closely. A man and a women touch lips. A sick person is in a hospital NEAR medical personnel, not put out in a boat in the middle of a lake.

Well, enough. I can't make any progress with Poison because we are talking two different schools of psychology - and that's OK.
But we're never going to agree, so I'll just drop it.

Uncle
 

zenfisher

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So we live miles apart...yet we are communicating. Yet proximity does not play into this discussion. As far as meeting people I have talked with on line...I have met some. I may not be able to go for lunch with them everyday, but there is still a familiarity that comes with discussing things in forums, chatrooms,et al. Friendships develop. As I mentioned I met my wife over the net. If proximity was a factor I never would have met her. Its a long drive between Winnipeg and Seattle.
 

PoisonPete2

Electoral Member
Apr 9, 2005
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when world events are filtered through the media based on political interest it is propaganda. If you doubt the existence of propaganda, then you are most likely a victim of it. History creates myth and national identity. In america the Fronteersman (capable, independent, and morally upright) is how people would see themselves. But they are actually heavily manipulated by fearmongering, patriotic fervour and greed.
 

unclepercy

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Jun 4, 2005
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Re: RE: HOW COGNITIVE HISTORY CAN CAUSE US TO MISPERCEIVE

PoisonPete2 said:
when world events are filtered through the media based on political interest it is propaganda. If you doubt the existence of propaganda, then you are most likely a victim of it. History creates myth and national identity. In america the Fronteersman (capable, independent, and morally upright) is how people would see themselves. But they are actually heavily manipulated by fearmongering, patriotic fervour and greed.

I resent that. You declare who I am without knowing me. I knew I would pin you to the mat. 10! You're out.

Fronteersman? Yeah, your advanced degree is 3rd grade.

Uncle
 

PoisonPete2

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Apr 9, 2005
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Re: RE: HOW COGNITIVE HISTORY CAN CAUSE US TO MISPERCEIVE

unclepercy said:
PoisonPete2 said:
I resent that. You declare who I am without knowing me. I knew I would pin you to the mat. 10! You're out.

Fronteersman? Yeah, your advanced degree is 3rd grade.

Uncle

Answer - I know your history well. At least a lot better then you know wrestling (the count is 3 - so you're out first)