How can't you believe in the Quran, while it speaks by God Himself?

[Torch light]

1- The words of the Quran speaks of God, pertains to God and it is God Himself Who speaks and gives instructions.. it is not Mohammed or anyone else who speaks in His name.
It is the direct words of God - be glorified.
A large number of the ayat of the Quran starts by the word: "Say [O Mohammed to people]"
2- There is a large number of the ayat of the Quran which tells about the remorse and sorrow of the disbeliever and idolater at the time of his death and in the Hereafter or the Afterlife.
3- Many ayat criticize the doing of Prophet Mohammed in some situations.
4- Many ayat warns Prophet Mohammed that he should not do some works or else he would be punished.
5- The name of Mohammed has not been mentioned other than 4 times only in the entire book of the Quran, and the fifth time has been the name Ahmed.
Jesus is mentioned 25 times; the word Christ 9 times in the Quran, the son of Mary: 22 times; Moses: 131 times.
6- The call of the Quran is to God alone without associate or partner besides Him.
7- The Quran confirms the Torah (included in the Old Testament) and the Gospel (included in the New Testament) and it confirms Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all other prophets.
8- It tells about the Next Life or the Hereafter.
I cannot enumerate all the excellent points of the Quran, because all of it speaks about God and about the truth.

 

[Torch light]

Similarity between Pharaoh's people towards Moses and the Children of Israel towards Mohammed:

Despite that the people of Pharaoh were certain that Moses was a prophet and a messenger of God, they denied him and opposed him.
Similarly the Children of Israel and Jews in general hate Prophet Mohammed in spite of that they know him a truthful one, and the Quran confirms the monotheism of the Torah.. and they abhor him so much with their arrogance.

This aya of the Quran 23: 47 tells about the refusal of Moses by Pharaoh's people is spite of the great miracles done by God for the behalf of Moses and in confirmation of his prophet-hood and his being sent by God Himself:
(And they said: " Shall we believe in two mortals [: Moses and Aaron] like ourselves, when even their people are our servants!?")

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/23.htm#a23_47

 

[Torch light]

The remorse of the disbeliever at his hour of death:

Quran 15: 26 which means:
(Those, who wrong themselves [by worshiping the idols and statues] – when the angels take their souls [from their bodies at the time of death] – they will [then] submit themselves [to the truth, yield h and say]: "[We think that] we did not do any evil."
[The angels will reply to them:] “Yes, indeed; [your deeds were evil, and] God is All-Knowing about all [the disbelief, association and idolatry] that you were doing [in the life of the World.]”)

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/16.htm#a16_28

 

[Serryah]

1- The words of the Quran speaks of God, pertains to God and it is God Himself Who speaks and gives instructions.. it is not Mohammed or anyone else who speaks in His name.

The words of the Bible speaks of God, pertains to God and it is God Himself Who speaks and gives instructions. It is not (whoever you want to choose) or anyone else who speaks in His name.

Sorry Torchy, but the Bible, the Torah and a whole bunch of other Holy Books/Scripts all claim the same thing. Their "God" is just as legitimate as yours.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

It is the direct words of God - be glorified.

There's no evidence that's true, so it's easy not to believe in the Quran. The Quran makes that claim about itself, but that's not evidence. Besides, it was Gabriel speaking to Mohammed, not god himself, over a period of several decades according to Islamic tradition, and it wasn't actually written down until long after Mohammed's passing, it was originally entirely oral and resided in the memories of his followers. Some Islamic traditionalists also claim the Quran is not the Quran except in the original Arabic, no translation can do it justice, and if that's the case, then god has given us the final revelation in a form inaccessible to most of the world's people. Not a good way to sell the product.

 

[French Patriot]

Does your God create all souls equal?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

 

[Torch light]

There's no evidence that's true, so it's easy not to believe in the Quran. The Quran makes that claim about itself, but that's not evidence. Besides, it was Gabriel speaking to Mohammed, not god himself, over a period of several decades according to Islamic tradition, and it wasn't actually written down until long after Mohammed's passing, it was originally entirely oral and resided in the memories of his followers. Some Islamic traditionalists also claim the Quran is not the Quran except in the original Arabic, no translation can do it justice, and if that's the case, then god has given us the final revelation in a form inaccessible to most of the world's people. Not a good way to sell the product.

You keep saying 'no evidence' in spite of the many proofs and indications.
However, I'll explain many of your objections.
The Quran is God's words: it addresses the Prophet himself in many ways with orders, instructions etc.
Gabriel was the angel who carried the words of revelation to the Prophet, as had he conveyed the revelations to many messengers and prophets before Mohammed: like Jesus, Zachariah, etc. So Gabriel was the communication between God and the prophet.
This is explained in these Quran ayat, although you may ignore them (others may read them anyhow.)
Quran 26: 192-195, which mean:
(192. And, truly, the [Quran] is a revelation from the Lord of nations and worlds.
193. The ‘Faithful or Honest Spirit' [Gabriel] came down with it,
194. Upon your heart [O Mohammed], that you may become one of those who warn.
195. In fluent Arabic language.
196. [The tales of the prophets in the Quran] are [even written] in the [heavenly] scriptures of the ancients.)

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/26.htm#a26_192

 

[Ron in Regina]

You keep saying 'no evidence' in spite of the many proofs and indications.
However, I'll explain many of your objections.
The Quran is God's words:

How do you know? Did God sign it? Swear an affidavit?

The Quran is God’s words: it addresses the Prophet himself in many ways with orders, instructions etc.
Gabriel was the angel who carried the words of revelation to the Prophet, as had he conveyed the revelations to many messengers and prophets before Mohammed: like Jesus, Zachariah, etc. So Gabriel was the communication between God and the prophet.

OK, so the Quran is Gabriel’s version of what he thinks God said then? Or Mohammed’s words of Gabriel’s words of Gods words then? Or is it Jesus &/or Zac’s words from Gab from God to Mo then? 4-5 already in the game of Gods telephone without later translations & interpretations adding onto the list then?

This is explained in these Quran ayat, although you may ignore them (others may read them anyhow.)
Quran 26: 192-195, which mean:
(192. And, truly, the [Quran] is a revelation from the Lord of nations and worlds.
193. The ‘Faithful or Honest Spirit' [Gabriel] came down with it,
194. Upon your heart [O Mohammed], that you may become one of those who warn.
195. In fluent Arabic language.
196. [The tales of the prophets in the Quran] are [even written] in the [heavenly] scriptures of the ancients.)

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/26.htm#a26_192

Chinese whispers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Players form a line or circle, and the first player comes up with a message and whispers it to the ear of the second person in the line.

The second player repeats the message to the third player, and so on. When the last player is reached, they announce the message they heard to the entire group.

The first person then compares the original message with the final version. Although the objective is to pass around the message without it becoming garbled along the way, part of the enjoyment is that, regardless, this usually ends up happening.

Errors typically accumulate in the retellings, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly from that of the first player, usually with amusing or humorous effect.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

You keep saying 'no evidence' in spite of the many proofs and indications.
However, I'll explain many of your objections.

It would be helpful if you understood what evidence is. You've explained nothing, you've simply repeated the claims the Quran contains about itself, and that's not evidence. You can't prove a book contains the truth by citing its claims that it does, that's not a valid argument. I could assemble all of my posts here into book form and add the claim that it's all true, complete, and correct, but you wouldn't believe that, and for much the same reason I don't believe you.

 

[Torch light]

The arguments of the Quran:
I said the Quran gives the arguments, so argue with the Quran, not with me. I only cite the argument of the Quran.
How is this?
When Prophet Mohammed proclaimed his message to his people, they - specially at the start - denied him, ridiculed him and opposed him.
They objected to many things, as you now object, and God - be glorified - replied to their objections by the Quran revelations or the Quran ayat.

Quran 25: 33, which means:
(And they bring you [O Mohammed] no argument g but We bring you the true [answer h as against it], and a better explanation [and exposure of the meaning.])
................................................................................................................................................................................

g With which they dispute against you so as to falsify your message and to contradict you.
h Which disproves and refutes their arguments.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/25.htm#a25_33

 

[Torch light]

Examples of the arguments of the Quran:
[Ubayy, the son of Khalaf al-Jumahi came to the Prophet – salam to him – carrying by his hand a rotten bone, and said:
“You claim that your Lord resurrect the dead, but who can bring this back as it was!?” and he smashed it with his hand!
Therefore, this aya was revealed:]

Quran 36: 77-83, which mean:
(77. Do man [: the 'associater and idolater'] not see that We created him from scanty [seminal] fluid, and that he has [now] become a manifest opponent?
78. And he tells Us an example [of the decayed bones] and forgets about his own creation [that he was created from seminal fluid]; he says: "Who can revive the bones when they are decayed!?"
79. Say [Mohammed, answering him]: "He revives them, That Who created them at the beginning [from seminal fluid]; He is All-Knowing about everything in the creation."
80. Who made for you fire out of the green tree, that you may kindle fire out of it.
81. Therefore, is not [God], Who created the heavens and the earth, All-Able to create the like of them? Yes, indeed; He is the Creator [of everything], the All-Knowing.
82. His command, when He intends [to create or destroy] anything, is to say to it “Be", and it is [as He wants.]
83. So glory be to Him Who owns all things, and to Him you [all] will be returned [after death.])

See the complete explanation of these ayat here:

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/36.htm#a36_77

 

[Torch light]

Another example of the Quran arguments answering the deniers of the Hereafter:

Quran 45: 24, which means:
(They a say: "There is nothing but our [present] Worldly life; we die and our [children] live b, and nothing but Time [factors] destroy us. c "

[So God – be glorified – said:]
Of that they have no knowledge d, they merely conjecture e.)
......................................................................................................................................................................................

a i.e. the deniers of the sending to the Next Life, and of the Judgment.
b It means: Our children will be instead of us, and there isn’t after this life any other life, such as you threaten us with, neither is there any angel to seize our spirits, as you say.
c It means: the means of death are not else than only the disease, the murder, the drowning, the burn or the ageing.
d Because they are in a material world, and they do not know anything about the ether world: the world of souls, and they do not believe in it until they go to it following their death.
e They depend on guessing, not on true facts.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/45.htm#a45_24

 

[Torch light]

Their objection: why did God not send an angel as the messenger:

Quran 17: 94-96 which mean:
(94. And what prevented people from believing when the guidance came to them [and We explained to them the ways of guidance], but only that they said: "Has God sent a mortal as [His] messenger?"
95. Say: “Had there been in the earth angels walking about in peace and comfort [in the world of matter e], We would have certainly sent down to them from heaven an angel as a Messenger.”
96. Say: "God suffices as a Witness between me and you f; [for surely] He is ever All-Aware and All-Seeing [of His servants g.]")
...........................................................................................................................................................................

e Without being hurt by the matter, and being at comfort with it, as are you yourselves at comfort.
f It means: God knows and sees that I have conveyed the message [to you] and warned [you] against the idolatry; but you were obstinate and you did not listen to my words.
g So that nothing of your affairs may be unknown by Him.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/17.htm#a17_94

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I read the Quran years ago, in English of course, and found it completely unconvincing. It's obviously highly derivative from Jewish and Christian mythology (these days we'd call it plagiarism), it's fragmented and poorly organized, very repetitive, often pretty dull, inconsistent, and frequently wrong. And you're still not getting it, it's not enough simply to repeat the Quran's claims and arguments. Those who deny the hereafter in your example above, for instance, will not be convinced by the Quran's claim that there is a hereafter they have no knowledge of, that's not an argument, it's simply an unsubstantiated contrary claim. You can argue that way forever, and it's really no better than a childish sort of "It is not," "It is so," "It is not," "It is so" exchange.

 

[Taxslave2]

The fact that not one single believer of any religion has brought their god by for coffee to prove existence of said god speaks volumes about the lack of any god.

 

[Torch light]

I read the Quran years ago, in English of course, and found it completely unconvincing. It's obviously highly derivative from Jewish and Christian mythology (these days we'd call it plagiarism), it's fragmented and poorly organized, very repetitive, often pretty dull, inconsistent, and frequently wrong.

You are wrong and completely wrong.
This indicates a rapid turning of pages of the book, not studying it carefully.

Moreover, I said before, the Quran divides into two categories: one category is the plain part: the part of the laws and statements: this is full of wisdom and guiding to a clear way and correct program.

The other part is the ambiguous part, which is also a miracle.. it is to be known later on: in this contemporary time, which includes knowledge unknown to people in the time of its revealing to Prophet Mohammed. This part consists of a considerable part of the Quran ayat, and its interpretation is an extension in time for the Quran and proving its origin from God Almighty.

As regards the translator, he translates according to his understanding of the aya, depending on the available explanatory books, while the ambiguous ayat: how will he translate them?
These ambiguous ayat which are unknown to people except in general and with guessing: so how will the translator give their meaning particularly in another language?
So this is why, some readers of the Quran translation, specially if they read it with preliminary or initial negative attitude towards the Quran.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

This indicates a rapid turning of pages of the book, not studying it carefully.

No, I read it carefully and thoroughly, same as I did Jewish and Christian scriptures, and talked about it a lot with someone else who was doing the same. It's obviously highly derivative from Jewish and Christian mythology (these days we'd call it plagiarism), it's fragmented and poorly organized, very repetitive, often pretty dull, inconsistent, and frequently wrong. We concluded that it's no more likely to be true and correct than the Jewish and Christian scriptures, i.e. mostly not.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Significantly I think, Islam is not unified. Your prophet made no provision for succession, as bad leaders often don't, and almost immediately after his death there were disputes about who was to inherit the mantle of his leadership. As a result, Islam had its first major schism, into the Sunni and Shia factions, even before it really got organized, those factions are still killing each other, and now there are many more factions, reflecting different interpretations of the Quran, different views on succession, and different forms of observance and worship. You're no more likely to be right than any of them are, and in my view, everybody is wrong, because there is no Allah so everything that follows from the belief that there is has no meaning or value. Humans made it all up.

 

[Torch light]

These days I update my translation of the Quran interpretation by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
I have before me many versions of the Quran meaning translations, but I translate the interpretation of Al-Hilly.
When I compare these translations, I see the big difference between his explanation and the other explanations.

Example:
This aya of the Quran 16: 35; it is comprised of 3 parts, so what's the relation between these 3 parts?
This is the translation by an excellent translator, who does not know the correct explanation in Arabic, so how can he translate it correctly?

Translation by Talal Itany who is very good in English in addition to being Arabian in origin and he also knows Arabic well:
(The idolaters say, “Had God willed, we would not have worshiped anything besides Him, neither us, nor our ancestors; nor would we have prohibited anything besides His prohibitions.”
Those before them did likewise.
Are the messengers responsible for anything but clear communication?)

My translation of the interpretation by Abu Abd-Allah:
(35. The associaters e say: "Had God willed, we would not have worshiped anything besides Him f, neither us nor our fathers, nor would we have considered anything forbidden without His [command. g]”
Those before them did [and said] the same. h
[So, God – be glorified – explained:]
Then is the duty of the messengers anything but the clear delivery [of their message?] i)
.......................................................................................................................................................................................................

e [i.e. those who associate others with God in the worship: like associating with God their idols, their religious leaders, their kings, the angels ..etc.]
f It means: Had God commanded us to forsake their worship, we would have forsaken it. But in fact God honored them and commanded us to worship them, and they are our intercessors before God.
g But God forbade us such things, and so we committed ourselves to such forbidding.
h Because they found their fathers working according to that program; therefore, they thought that it was God Who commanded their fathers with it, and so they adopted it and worked according to it.
For this reason, they said: (Had God willed, we would not have worshiped anything besides Him, neither us nor our fathers);
i The meaning: Our messengers told you, delivered the message and warned you; therefore, you have no excuse after all this.

Comment: if one reads the translation by the excellent translator Talal Itany, he will ask: why did God say: "the duty of the messengers is nothing other than conveying their message" ?
But when he reads the explanation of Abu Abd-Allah, he will understand the implication:
The contemporary generation follow a religious way and they think God ordered their fathers by that, while God did not in fact order that.
The past generations did and thought in the same way.
But when the messenger came and explained the correct way, there will be no excuse for the deniers and disbelievers after the explanation.

 

[Torch light]

No, I read it carefully and thoroughly, same as I did Jewish and Christian scriptures, and talked about it a lot with someone else who was doing the same. It's obviously highly derivative from Jewish and Christian mythology (these days we'd call it plagiarism), it's fragmented and poorly organized, very repetitive, often pretty dull, inconsistent, and frequently wrong. We concluded that it's no more likely to be true and correct than the Jewish and Christian scriptures, i.e. mostly not.

Of course you say you read it carefully and thoroughly, like one whom I gave the Arabic book The Universe and the Quran; he brought it back few days later.
I said: Did you read it? He said: yes. I said: What's the meaning of the swearing and oath of God in the Quran? He could not know it because he did not study it, but he said: Do you examine me?
The Oath or Swearing in the Quran

I answered before the other points like the repetition of some ayat, and its relation to the other previous heavenly books, because the speaker is the same One, and the Quran corrects the mistakes of those books, and teaches the Arabs things which they did not know about these past nations.