How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

[sanctus]

There is just something that is so annoying about fundamentalists, especially when they're rapping on your door in tag-teams of two. Does no good telling them you already go to Church either, because they second they hear you're Catholic they start their "wh+re of Babylon-pope is the anti-christ" rhetoric.

Why they even bother knocking on Catholic doors is a mystery to me. You'd think the "Mary in the bathtub" in the front garden would be a clue that you're probably NOT going to win the people inside the house over to your sect.

Although I obviously have issues with the theology of such groups, I must confess I respect the courage it must take, the strength of conviction if you will, to actually march up to a strangers' door to evangelize. I'm not certain you would find people willing to do such a thing in the mainline denominations.

 

[hermanntrude]

I know of a Jehovah's witness family, one of the children, when very young, was known to say such things as "knock knock, jesus, bible, jehovah"

 

[look3467]

Nope, I'd probably laugh. Then I'd tell him he looked pretty good for a 2000 year old. Then I'd explain that I was kidding and tell him that in all likelihood no such critter ever existed. Then I'd probably offer to buy him a beer and explore the whole issue>>>Gilbert

Guess what? You just gave yourself a 50-50 chance of knowing Him. Yes, I’d say He’d take you up on the beer. I know I would.

But of course, you already know me, and what I think, so probably, you’d pass on me.

Did they? Any real evidence of this? Or is it just more sayso?>>>Gilbert

Evidence: Take a trip to Jerusalem. The fact that the Jews rejected Jesus too, is the cause for all the excitement there. (History)

A contradiction? In the holEy bible? You're kidding of course, ar bith?>>>Gilbert

I’ll address this later on another thread.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[L Gilbert]

Perhaps not, but in truth, faith, God, or any of these matters is not necessarily something that can be put on a table and examined. I wish that it could, but obviously it cannot. It is down to the phrase you dislike, either you believe or you don't. If you believe, obviously proof is all around you, but not proof that can be scientifically examined. Bottom line really is, if the person is stable, and their faith in God manifests good behaviour and moral choices, there is little harm in Christian faith.

I'll go along with that.

When faith manifests itself into self-righteousness and arrogance, great harm can be caused, especially to others.

For better or worse, one of the elements to fundamentalists of any stripe that I find disquieting is people presuming to judge based on what they THINK God is telling them, as if He whispers only in their ears. The stories I could share about the damage these types of faith systems cause the individual are many.

Yeah. I've seen evidence of that, fersher.

 

[L Gilbert]

There is just something that is so annoying about fundamentalists, especially when they're rapping on your door in tag-teams of two. Does no good telling them you already go to Church either, because they second they hear you're Catholic they start their "wh+re of Babylon-pope is the anti-christ" rhetoric.

Why they even bother knocking on Catholic doors is a mystery to me. You'd think the "Mary in the bathtub" in the front garden would be a clue that you're probably NOT going to win the people inside the house over to your sect.

Do you folks have a sign out front saying, "this house is Catholic" or "this house is Lutheran" or whatever?

 

[talloola]

Perhaps not, but in truth, faith, God, or any of these matters is not necessarily something that can be put on a table and examined. I wish that it could, but obviously it cannot. It is down to the phrase you dislike, either you believe or you don't. If you believe, obviously proof is all around you, but not proof that can be scientifically examined. Bottom line really is, if the person is stable, and their faith in God manifests good behaviour and moral choices, there is little harm in Christian faith. When faith manifests itself into self-righteousness and arrogance, great harm can be caused, especially to others.

For better or worse, one of the elements to fundamentalists of any stripe that I find disquieting is people presuming to judge based on what they THINK God is telling them, as if He whispers only in their ears. The stories I could share about the damage these types of faith systems cause the individual are many.

The harm that has been done to others by the people who,(according to them), are given instructions to do harm to others by god, is very scary.
And, yes, I suppose this is a "mental" disorder, but why is it always god who "talks" to them.

 

[look3467]

Although I obviously have issues with the theology of such groups, I must confess I respect the courage it must take, the strength of conviction if you will, to actually march up to a strangers' door to evangelize. I'm not certain you would find people willing to do such a thing in the mainline denominations.

I used to have issues with the Jehovah's Witnesses, and Morman's. But I don't anymore.
Matter of Fact, I love them.
You see, Jesus said, to His diciples concerning some who were not of the group which followed Jesus, that what they were doing was not against God, but for God.
Reference: Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

All who desire to share their beliefs are not against God. The method employed, however, is where the problem lies.
But, then again, opposition creates experience, and experience teaches us things that we don't want to face, sometimes.

Next time someone comes to your door, respect their efforts, for that's all they know to do.

Until they seek out more than what they know, will they come to a point where I am.

I was there, done that.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[look3467]

The harm that has been done to others by the people who,(according to them), are given instructions to do harm to others by god, is very scary.
And, yes, I suppose this is a "mental" disorder, but why is it always god who "talks" to them.

Any organization starting up does not reach maturity from the start. There are always obstacles that have to be overcome in it's growth to a full blown organization.

Christianity started out with the Apostles as like a new born babe. Then members began to be added to them. But because it was a controversial new belief, persecution was it's driving force.

Many gave up their lives for that belief.

The early Church meaning the body of people, then led to a body of leaders who then instituted a church building in which to worship in.

Mainly, the Catholic Church. I believe Catholic means universal, Sanctus?

But then there came a time where even those who opposed the Catholic Church were persecuted as well.

My point is this: that the body of Christianity grows from generation to generation, each time improving from it's previous stance, or maturity a little more.

To what it is today. A variety of beliefs in which tolerance for each other has grown more towards acceptance rather than rejection.

There are still radicals in all varieties which use their position, their religion for selfish reasons.

The Catholic Church for example cannot be blamed for the bad behavior of a few, but does need,it to make necessary adjustments because of it.

Likewise all the rest of the varieties, they also need to make adjustments to their methods and ways, so as to arrive at unity of brotherhood.

When all the varieties are able to accept unbelievers as unbelievers and each others with their beliefs, love them just the same, then will we learn war no more.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

 

[talloola]

Any organization starting up does not reach maturity from the start. There are always obstacles that have to be overcome in it's growth to a full blown organization.

Christianity started out with the Apostles as like a new born babe. Then members began to be added to them. But because it was a controversial new belief, persecution was it's driving force.

Many gave up their lives for that belief.

The early Church meaning the body of people, then led to a body of leaders who then instituted a church building in which to worship in.

Mainly, the Catholic Church. I believe Catholic means universal, Sanctus?

But then there came a time where even those who opposed the Catholic Church were persecuted as well.

My point is this: that the body of Christianity grows from generation to generation, each time improving from it's previous stance, or maturity a little more.

To what it is today. A variety of beliefs in which tolerance for each other has grown more towards acceptance rather than rejection.

There are still radicals in all varieties which use their position, their religion for selfish reasons.

The Catholic Church for example cannot be blamed for the bad behavior of a few, but does need,it to make necessary adjustments because of it.

Likewise all the rest of the varieties, they also need to make adjustments to their methods and ways, so as to arrive at unity of brotherhood.

When all the varieties are able to accept unbelievers as unbelievers and each others with their beliefs, love them just the same, then will we learn war no more.

The people I was mentioning are a threat to others lives, and there have been many murders
as a result of so-called messages sent from god into people's brains, very sad.

 

[darleneonfire]

[
The people I was mentioning are a threat to others lives, and there have been many murders
as a result of so-called messages sent from god into people's brains, very sad.

I know exactly what you mean. So many of those "sign over everything to the leader for God" type cults around the place. Jehovah's Witnesses are not better, brainwashed little drones spouting off their patterned speeches at the doors of unsuspecting people.

 

[L Gilbert]

Guess what? You just gave yourself a 50-50 chance of knowing Him. Yes, I’d say He’d take you up on the beer. I know I would.

Still don't get it. He doesn't exist. My world is Yeshua free. It is Yahweh free. No spooks either, whether they be Casper the friendly one or the shrieking one at St. Katherine's Nunnery in Limerick.

But of course, you already know me, and what I think, so probably, you’d pass on me.

Would I?

Evidence: Take a trip to Jerusalem. The fact that the Jews rejected Jesus too, is the cause for all the excitement there. (History)

Lots of people reject Yeshua. Big deal. Last I heard anyway was that the fooferaw with the Hizbollah was what everyone was excited about. Besides, just because a lot of people get excited about something doesn't mean it's real. Lots of people got excited over a couple new Star Wars movies. Is that crap real?

 

[L Gilbert]

Next time someone comes to your door, respect their efforts, for that's all they know to do.

Until they seek out more than what they know, will they come to a point where I am.

I was there, done that.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

Funny. Everytime I thought I'd reached a pinnacle of understanding, I found there were more pinnacles and at higher levels. Kinda poked a hole in my balloon of arrogance. Now I just do my best to keep going, leave off the arrogance, and see if I can help someone else get to their own pinnacle.

 

[L Gilbert]

When all the varieties are able to accept unbelievers as unbelievers and each others with their beliefs, love them just the same, then will we learn war no more.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

It's more that when everyone learns to mind their own business then serious conflict will cease. IE, Live and let live.

 

[L Gilbert]

I know exactly what you mean. So many of those "sign over everything to the leader for God" type cults around the place. Jehovah's Witnesses are not better, brainwashed little drones spouting off their patterned speeches at the doors of unsuspecting people.

I don't mind JWs. Sometimes have pretty good debates with them. One has to teach them that mealtimes are not good times for proselytising and "witnessing", though.

 

[sanctus]

The harm that has been done to others by the people who,(according to them), are given instructions to do harm to others by god, is very scary.
And, yes, I suppose this is a "mental" disorder, but why is it always god who "talks" to them.

Good question! But even in the fundamentalist cults, without doing harm to others, there is harm done to the membership. I am deeply suspicious of sects that require their memebership to sign over their homes, and paycheques to support the "work of God". I also consider television evangelists suspicious. Though there are some reputable and decent ones amongst the lot, the bulk of them are such shysters it amazes me that people flock to their ministries.

 

[sanctus]

The early Church meaning the body of people, then led to a body of leaders who then instituted a church building in which to worship in.

Mainly, the Catholic Church. I believe Catholic means universal, Sanctus?

Actually yes. The Church is not the body of the people though, necessarily. The church is that established by God, and part of its function is to minister and dispense the Sacraments to its people. I must caution you that this is the biggest stumbling block between any real unity with protestant cults that have left the Church, namely that these denominations have rejected what we believe is established by God. Christ did not establish the "churches", but the "Church".

Likewise all the rest of the varieties, they also need to make adjustments to their methods and ways, so as to arrive at unity of brotherhood.

When all the varieties are able to accept unbelievers as unbelievers and each others with their beliefs, love them just the same, then will we learn war no more.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

That goes beyond religious differences, I think. When we learn to accept people, period, and focus on positives rather then negatives, perhaps we shall have a closer walk with peace.

 

[sanctus]

I used to have issues with the Jehovah's Witnesses, and Morman's. But I don't anymore.
Matter of Fact, I love them.
You see, Jesus said, to His diciples concerning some who were not of the group which followed Jesus, that what they were doing was not against God, but for God.
Reference: Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

You are confusing the love we are to feel for everyone with acceptance of heresy and blasphemy. Fact is, neither the Mormons or the JW's are Christian by any definition of the word, for both have rejected the salvation of Christ. Both teach that he is not the Saviour nor that he is the Messiah. I have great trouble with that theology. Because we are in Christ AJ, does not mean we must be wishy-washy and accept everything that contradicts our Lord's express teachings. In fact, even when loving them, we must reject what they believe in our hearts.We must not forget our witness is to be Christ, not variations on the theme.

 

[darleneonfire]

Any organization starting up does not reach maturity from the start. There are always obstacles that have to be overcome in it's growth to a full blown organization.

Christianity started out with the Apostles as like a new born babe. Then members began to be added to them. But because it was a controversial new belief, persecution was it's driving force.

Many gave up their lives for that belief.

The early Church meaning the body of people, then led to a body of leaders who then instituted a church building in which to worship in..

You're not very well versed in church history, are you? The early church leaders were the apostles, and worship was done in the homes. Read church history. Also, to be fair to the catholics, the worship of the apostles was always what we now call a mass. And yes, the early church was persecuted, in that you are correct. We can go all around the bend here on this, but historically what we now call the Roman Catholic Church began at Pentecost. Mind you, I'm not catholic or overly religious, but history is history.Even I remember being taught this not only in sunday school but in world religions. Make no doubt about it, the catholic Church has been around since day one.

 

[m_levesque]

I know exactly what you mean. So many of those "sign over everything to the leader for God" type cults around the place. Jehovah's Witnesses are not better, brainwashed little drones spouting off their patterned speeches at the doors of unsuspecting people.

I strongly recommend Answering Jehovah's Witnesses by Jason Evert (of Catholic Answers), available in the "shop" section of Catholic.com

Here's a link to a related website:
http://www.catholicxjw.com/

 

[mapleleafgirl]

I used to have issues with the Jehovah's Witnesses, and Morman's. But I don't anymore.
Matter of Fact, I love them.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

i think theyre wackd. theyre like robots or something, probably brainwashed. mormons believe that they are equal to god. i did a paper about them in world religions class once.plus, they think when they die theyll like get their own planets to be god over.