You're human, that's all.>>>Dexter
There lies the problem.The "that's all" phrase excludes God.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
There lies the problem.The "that's all" phrase excludes God.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
How can we get rid of our sinfulness?
- Thread starter sanctus
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Yes, it does, quite deliberately. Give me a good reason to think god exists at all. I've found no convincing evidence in almost 40 years of looking. What I've found instead is evidence that your idea of god, and in fact every idea of god every culture has ever had, is entirely a human invention and has no reality outside the realm of ideas. In my experience, prayers are not answered, help is not given, nobody's paying attention. There's just us here; we're alone, and we better learn to deal with it, because nobody's going to save us from ourselves but us.
Prayers are assured. Have you made an appointment with your parish priest to speak to him about these things? That is my advice to you.
But in general, we all go through periods of doubt and confusion. It is normal. Try saying the Jesus prayer. Are you familiar with it? It is a favourite prayer of the Orthodox, and it is very profund, and simple. It goes "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." Insert this short prayer into your conciousness, it will help a great deal to ease the mind and focus your thoughts.
Do you say a daily rosary? If not, begin this custom. Instead of seeing doubt, see goodness inside.
You are free to PM if you wish.
There are so many Catholics that think like this, I'm afraid to admit. My own mother, though she never quite expressed it in these words, would've echoed pretty much the same idea. Centuries of teachings have been confused by many people who have come to believe in the certainty of the Church to the exclusion of all else. I'm not justifying it, only admitting it is common amongst Catholics to regard themselves as the sole channel for salvation.They arrive at such a conclusionthrough mis-interpretation of Catholic doctrine on the Church, most particularly the doctrine of "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus", which very basically is Latin for "outside the church there is no salvation." Though it has been expressed as a doctrine excluding all outside Holy Mother Church, it is more properly understood as the ideology that the Church is the fullness of salvation, and, as Vatican Two codified, there is some elements of truth in other religions which we can celebrate.
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So if you feel this way why would you bother reading and taking part in a Christian Discussion? Does it make you feel like a big man to mock the beliefs of others?
Are you suggesting that we are not permitted to have an opinion of Christian topics unless we are rabid fanatics?
Yes, it does, quite deliberately. Give me a good reason to think god exists at all. I've found no convincing evidence in almost 40 years of looking. What I've found instead is evidence that your idea of god, and in fact every idea of god every culture has ever had, is entirely a human invention and has no reality outside the realm of ideas. In my experience, prayers are not answered, help is not given, nobody's paying attention. There's just us here; we're alone, and we better learn to deal with it, because nobody's going to save us from ourselves but us.
----------------------------------Dexter Sinister---------------------------------
You sound pretty sure. You might be right.
------------At another pointer Dexter Sinister posted the below:-----------------------------
You provide a fine example of everything I find most offensive and dangerous about true believers, that conviction of absolute certainty, you're right and everybody who disagrees is condemned. They arrive at such a conclusionthrough mis-interpretation of Catholic doctrine on the Church, most particularly the doctrine of "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus", which very basically is Latin for "outside the church there is no salvation." Though it has been expressed as a doctrine excluding all outside Holy Mother Church, it is more properly understood as the ideology that the Church is the fullness of salvation, and, as Vatican Two codified, there is some elements of truth in other religions which we can celebrate.
Is there no possibility that you might be wrong?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Dexter Sinister-------------
It appears both sides of this question are equally sure.
----------------------------------Dexter Sinister---------------------------------
You sound pretty sure. You might be right.
------------At another pointer Dexter Sinister posted the below:-----------------------------
You provide a fine example of everything I find most offensive and dangerous about true believers, that conviction of absolute certainty, you're right and everybody who disagrees is condemned. They arrive at such a conclusionthrough mis-interpretation of Catholic doctrine on the Church, most particularly the doctrine of "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus", which very basically is Latin for "outside the church there is no salvation." Though it has been expressed as a doctrine excluding all outside Holy Mother Church, it is more properly understood as the ideology that the Church is the fullness of salvation, and, as Vatican Two codified, there is some elements of truth in other religions which we can celebrate.
Is there no possibility that you might be wrong?
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It appears both sides of this question are equally sure.
Actually, part of his post should have been mine. I've corrected it already
Sorry for the confusion.
I don't think he is trying to mock anybody. It's a discussion, he's sharing his views. And why not? Pretty boring discussion when everyone agrees!
Furthermore, why do you feel it is appropriate to condemn everyone outside of the Church to hell?
The only proof that God exist, is in the heart. Though it is seen all around us, yet if not felt in our hearts, then I agree with you yes, he wouldn’t exist.
As you mentioned, quote: “in fact every idea of god every culture has ever had, is entirely a human invention and has no reality outside the realm of ideas”: Only proves that there must have and does exist, something that they thought or think, was a spiritual something higher than themselves. But didn’t know who or what it was.
In my quest for truth, I’ve wondered about the American Indians, the Muslim people, the primitive African peoples and all other peoples who know not who Jesus is or what He has accomplished.
Are you God going to save them too? I asked God? Why then only me? My heart was not satisfied knowing that God could have purposed people not to know Him and then condemn them to eternal separation for no fault of their own?
The thought of that brought tears to my eyes, for I could not see a loving God destroying His own critters.
I knew there had to be an answer to it. So I set out to find it. And I did.
But I never for one moment denied the existence of God, even though I saw where it was said that He destroyed Sodom and Gomorra and what was said of Him doing.
Way before God introduced Himself to mankind by way of the Nation of Israel, people knew that there was a type of a god, but didn’t know anything about it.
If the crop harvest was good that year, they praised the god of the crops. If the crops were bad that year, they would say the god of the crops was angry at them so they has to do something to appease it, by offering up some sort of sacrifice.
I mean, that scenario has been going on since the advent of man on earth. Even to today.
People think God will get angry at them and punish them.
People punish people. We are our own worst critic, we punish ourselves.
God understands the situation He placed us in, so He is ever cognizant of our travails and suffering.
And gives us every opportunity to seek Him out and receive from Him comfort, peace and protection from ourselves.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
If it can not be the man of the heart that believes, then the man of the flesh has no hope.
Your phrase then fits to a “T”,: “You're human, that's all”, meaning, no hope.
Dexter, I appreciate you giving me this opportunity to explain the God side of the issues.
I see where there are well over 6,000 readers of this thread of which 1,800+ are participants.
Somebody somewhere are getting questions answered in their own minds, thanks to you and all who are on this stage performing.
At the end of the play, we dump our stage characters and have a group hug, knowing that our performance was well received by the audience.
Each of us a part to play: some glorious and some not so glorious, but equally important to the body.
The body: the audience.
Loveya all>>>AJ:love9::love9::love9:
but didnt god give us dominion over the earth, so it is very important to god, logically speaking, what we do with the world he gave to us. in fact, cant we sort of think that if we somehow rip it apart that is a sin too?
isnt everything an advert for our own cause or selves. even in real life we are taking only to get attention, to connect, know what i mean?
No, it does not, and that's not what I'm doing, but it's entirely predictable that you'd view it that way. Don't project your shortcomings onto me.