How about them Canucks!

[talloola]

I'm in a bit of a quandary about that particular episode, although I watched game, I couldn't say whether it was a legal hit or not, but it was a GOOD one. While you are serving a penalty for injuring a player I've always been under the impression that the "injured" player couldn't be on the ice for the duration of the penalty.!! Help me out here Talloola.

the penalty he was given was 'not' for the type of hit, it was for interference, as the puck was
not quite there, so all of this arguement about the penalty being blind sided, or whatever doesn't
really apply on the ice, it was interference, BUT when toronto decide to review the call, then they will decide if
he should be suspended for 'the type' of hit or not.

I think torres is an effective player and has played that way all year, it seems that at this time of
the year his 'brain' has sped up a little too much and he has to reign his energy in, and get back
to the type of player he was all year, a goal once in awhile, but very good energy, and makes the
opposition take notice when he is out there, (and many other teams have those players too), the
team is very deep in talent, but canucks must have a torres type of player to make the other team
honest, so they don't go running around taking out our best players, there is nice balance to teams,
and without the 'hitter' or 'energy' player, players like the twins are 'bait' out there, with no
support.

Seabrook obviously was not hit directly to the head, or he would not have bounced
up almost immediately, he was hit hard, knocked down fast, gathered his wits, and
got up, and skated away, and he also did not get knocked into the end boards head
first.

I think I just heard that torres will 'not' get any supplemental penalty, suspension etc. the hit
was done, the referee assessed his penalty.
Torres did not directly hit seabrook's head, but his shoulder went into seabrook and perhaps slid
up and glanced off his head, and believe me, toronto would have watched this hit many many times,
and made that decision, so be it.
The decisions that the league has made for the past few months have been so inconsistent that we
never know what will happen.

 

[Mowich]

If you watched the game, Torres was given a penalty very near the start of the game, for a check that hardly even connected - it was a warning to him, by the ref, to smarten up and settle down. A warning that he didn't pay any attention to.

He most certainly was given a warning by that penalty. They had a NHL referee on Sports Center during the game last night and asked him whether or not they did actually take players aside and warn them that they were being put on notice - it is done all the time, apparently - subtley but still done. Torres had to know he was 'skating on thin ice' - sorry couldn't help myself - and still he chose to do what he did.

 

[talloola]

The first penalty torres received was 'charging', because his feet left the ice as he delivered the
hit, which by the way was only a glancing hit, not a direct hit, but it was charging.

If I was vineault I would continue playing torres, and I'm sure they will have a big chit chat
about staying out of the penalty box, as it hurts the team.

Torres has hit people all year, without getting penalties, and he hits hard, he just needs to
hold up a tad now, a little too much adrenalin for the playoffs, but I find it is much easier
to reign players in than get them to play harder.

Vineault likes the physical player, and he likes torres, and he compared the hit to the one that
getzlaf put on hamhuis a while back, (no penalty), and canucks were all furious.

There was so much talk about the quiet room stuff. That decision is made by the team doctor and
the player at the time, not an automatic rule for every hit that seems to be around the head area.
For example if one of the twins got hit high and did get up and skate back to the bench and appeared
to be OK, would not want to be out of the game for 15 minutes automatically, as was with seabrook,
he is a valuable player for chicago, and doesn't want to miss playing time.

But if a player has to be helped to the bench, seems woozy, then the doctor will assess him at that
time, and make a decision.

It seems that seabrook went to the quiet room during the intermission for assessment, but only
because he definitely showed some distress after the 'second' hit.

 

[bill barilko]

God Rot some of the old cowards here what a bunch of pantywaists!Hockey is a Man's Game not a waltz in the park take up lawn bowling if hitting upsets you
Report: Raffi' Torres in clear


Despite anger from the Chicago Blackhawks, Vancouver Canucks forward Raffi Torres will not face further discipline for his hit on Brent Seabrook Sunday night, TSN is reporting.
Torres laid out Seabrook with a shoulder to the head hit midway through the second period of the Canucks' 3-2 victory that gives them a 3-0 series lead.
The NHL told TSN that the hit did not violate Rule 48 which says that the area behind the net is a "hitting area." Torres was assessed a minor interference penalty on the play. But the Blackhawks were incensed that he did not appear to make any attempt to play the puck and went right after Seabrook.
"[It was] brutal, major [penalty], absolutely," Quenneville said angrily after the 3-2 loss. "I thought it was a major [penalty] live, and seeing the replay, clearly. We're lucky [Seabrook is] a big Western Canadian kid, someone else might have been on a stretcher. We could have scored four goals off that. Is it a suspension? That's not my call, the guy hasn't been back one game off [a suspension] and he does that."
Torres had just returned from a four-game suspension for a similar hit on Edmonton's Jordan Eberle.
"His reputation as of late speaks for itself," Blackhawks captain Jonathan Toews said Sunday. "He's not trying to go in there and make a play. He's trying to hurt one of our players. To us that's pretty obvious. It is what it is. We said in the locker room there is a time for everything and we'll deal with it accordingly."

 

[talloola]

God Rot some of the old cowards here what a bunch of pantywaists!Hockey is a Man's Game not a waltz in the park take up lawn bowling if hitting upsets you
Report: Raffi' Torres in clear


2 victory that gives them a 3-0 series lead.
The NHL told TSN that the hit did not violate Rule 48 which says that the area behind the net is a "hitting area." Torres was assessed a minor interference penalty on the play. But the Blackhawks were incensed that he did not appear to make any attempt to play the puck and went right after Seabrook.
"[It was] brutal, major [penalty], absolutely," Quenneville said angrily after the 3-2 loss. "I thought it was a major [penalty] live, and seeing the replay, clearly. We're lucky [Seabrook is] a big Western Canadian kid, someone else might have been on a stretcher. We could have scored four goals off that. Is it a suspension? That's not my call, the guy hasn't been back one game off [a suspension] and he does that."
Torres had just returned from a four-game suspension for a similar hit on Edmonton's Jordan Eberle.
"His reputation as of late speaks for itself," Blackhawks captain Jonathan Toews said Sunday. "He's not trying to go in there and make a play. He's trying to hurt one of our players. To us that's pretty obvious. It is what it is. We said in the locker room there is a time for everything and we'll deal with it accordingly."

The replies from anyone on the chicago team is predictable, 'irrespective' of what kind of hit it was,
they have no interest in assessing the hit fairly, they want what they want, a five minute major penalty
so they can score goals, end of story.

Torres must not be judged wholy on his actions because he just came back from a suspension, he must
be judged on 'THE HIT' at the time, he has not spent a lot of time on suspensions, and has hit many
times throughout the year, legally, hard and clean, BUT close to the edge, that is his style, and
vineault wants him that way.

I must add, and repeat myself from way back up the thread somewhere, that, either
way, if torres is in or out, I really liked that line with hodgson in the middle
and raymond and hansen on the wings, so with the depth of the team, they can do
it either way, or, put torres on the 4th line, bring hodgson in, but who gets bumped
out off of the 4 th line, (a problem any coach would like), too many good players,
and don't know where to put them.

He will be in the next game, so lets GO CANUCKS GO.

 

[TenPenny]

God Rot some of the old cowards here what a bunch of pantywaists!Hockey is a Man's Game not a waltz in the park take up lawn bowling if hitting upsets you

That's the idea. You've got it now.

Better yet - let's do away with those pussy shin guards, helmets, etc.

Today's goalies, they're just wimps. Pads? Face masks? Where's the sport in that.

What an insult to the game of hockey these stupid modern players are, with all their protective gear, and not wanting to be injured for life, or killed. Quite honestly, knee on knee hits, slashing, and spearing should be encouraged. If you can't take the beating, go play baseball.

 

[talloola]

That's the idea. You've got it now.

Better yet - let's do away with those pussy shin guards, helmets, etc.

Today's goalies, they're just wimps. Pads? Face masks? Where's the sport in that.

What an insult to the game of hockey these stupid modern players are, with all their protective gear, and not wanting to be injured for life, or killed. Quite honestly, knee on knee hits, slashing, and spearing should be encouraged. If you can't take the beating, go play baseball.

AMAZING lol yes, hitting is a big part of the game, we do not want to get rid
of it, and yes, if one does not want to see body checking then hockey is not the
game for you, simple.

 

[Mowich]

That's the idea. You've got it now.

Better yet - let's do away with those pussy shin guards, helmets, etc.

Today's goalies, they're just wimps. Pads? Face masks? Where's the sport in that.

What an insult to the game of hockey these stupid modern players are, with all their protective gear, and not wanting to be injured for life, or killed. Quite honestly, knee on knee hits, slashing, and spearing should be encouraged. If you can't take the beating, go play baseball.

Good come back, TP. LOL!

The replies from anyone on the chicago team is predictable, 'irrespective' of what kind of hit it was,
they have no interest in assessing the hit fairly, they want what they want, a five minute major penalty
so they can score goals, end of story.

Torres must not be judged wholy on his actions because he just came back from a suspension, he must
be judged on 'THE HIT' at the time, he has not spent a lot of time on suspensions, and has hit many
times throughout the year, legally, hard and clean, BUT close to the edge, that is his style, and
vineault wants him that way.

He will be in the next game, so lets GO CANUCKS GO.

Okay, tallola, you've made a good point and I bow to your fairness. I just hope Vineault is able to impress upon him just where that 'edge' is and that he doesn't cross it.

GO, CANNUCKS, GO!

 

[talloola]

Good come back, TP. LOL!



Okay, tallola, you've made a good point and I bow to your fairness. I just hope Vineault is able to impress upon him just where that 'edge' is and that he doesn't cross it.

GO, CANNUCKS, GO!

yeah, I hope so too, because if he keeps putting the team short handed, then he will be riding the
pine, and for good reason, vineault will give him some more rope because he likes his style and
wants him to play, but he won't do it too long, the team comes first.

 

[bill barilko]

YouTube - Lawn Bowling 101

 

[TenPenny]

AMAZING lol yes, hitting is a big part of the game, we do not want to get rid
of it, and yes, if one does not want to see body checking then hockey is not the
game for you, simple.

Yes, hitting is a big part of the game. However, deliberately trying to end a player's career by hitting him in a way designed to injure and/or disable the player never has been a part of the real game, and should not be.

Hockey is about handling the puck and scoring, trying to knock the other players off the puck, not creating people who have permanent brain damage.

But I'll defer to the self-appointed 'experts' who believe otherwise. Feel free to go visit the Proberts any time.

 

[Kreskin]

There are players in the hall of fame for doing what Torres did.

 

[Mowich]

Yes, hitting is a big part of the game. However, deliberately trying to end a player's career by hitting him in a way designed to injure and/or disable the player never has been a part of the real game, and should not be.

Hockey is about handling the puck and scoring, trying to knock the other players off the puck, not creating people who have permanent brain damage.

But I'll defer to the self-appointed 'experts' who believe otherwise. Feel free to go visit the Proberts any time.

I am far from being an 'expert' on hockey, TP but I do see tallola's point and as I have said, if he straightens up and plays right then keep him on the ice - if not then 'warming the pine' is fine with me. I will say that maybe, just maybe Torres got carried away in the heat of the moment as his next hit was a 'clean' one.

I don't like violence in hockey anymore than you do - it drove me away from the game for years and only recenlty when this new crop of players who really do know how to play the game without the unnecessary bad hits was I persuaded to begin watching the game again. I still cringe when the players get into fights as it takes away from the real game, at least for me. I know, I know - fighting gets the fans into the game and is supposed to help the home team - still, there is nothing like a good clean hitting game where the superior skills of the teams come to the fore, IMMHO. :smile:

 

[Kreskin]

They sped the game up by taking away any contact away from the puck so players are colliding sooner and at higher speeds than ever before. What he did was traditionally a good clean hit, and a rare one considering in the past Torres would've been held up and slowed down on the way in.

I suppose they will just have to suspend everyone sooner or later because this stuff will continue, no matter what, under the new and improved NHL.

 

[#juan]

There has been a lot of talk on Sports Center today about Torres blindside hit and the consensus is that he should have been given a major and a suspension thus I will bow to those who know more about the game then I do. I do wonder why Seabrook wasn't immediatley taken to the locker room and checked over - it took the following hit by Torres before Seabrook finally went to the bench and then left for the dressing room. I do agree that Seabrook should have been more aware of his vulnerabiltiy but Torres didn't just hit him, he launched himself at Seabrook and targeted his head.

I think Seabrook dove on the first hit from Torres. Remember, Torres was just doing what his coach told him to do. I don't mean that AV told him to level Seabrook but Torres' roll has been to play a very physical game and that is what he did.....and what he always does. Seabrook drew the first penalty for barely being touched. Torres made up for it next time. If a player keeps his head up, he can usually
avoid hits like that. Gretsky rarely took a hit. For those who want fairness, remember the Habs player who had his head rammed into the turnbukle by Garda with no penalty.

 

[Kreskin]

According to TSN he will not be suspended because rule 48 isn't in effect behind the net.

 

[Mowich]

They sped the game up by taking away any contact away from the puck so players are colliding sooner and at higher speeds than ever before. What he did was traditionally a good clean hit, and a rare one considering in the past Torres would've been held up and slowed down on the way in.

This is one of the things that the NHL official was explaining last night during one of the intermissions. He mentioned that they have a rule that a player has to take something like three steps in order for an official to consider him as taking a lunge. As the official went on to explain, the players are so fast these days that before the officials can figure out how many 'steps' he took, the guy is gone. He also mentioned that that is one of the reasons why officials are having some difficulty with consistency in their calls.

I suppose they will just have to suspend everyone sooner or later because this stuff will continue, no matter what, under the new and improved NHL.

I really hope and actually doubt that it would come to mass suspension, Kreskin. I hope that the players via the team and/or coaches will get the message and adjust their game. Hitting is a part of the game and good hits are just that - they accomplish what they were meant too while not harming the opposing player. I doubt it will come to mass suspension because I don't think the coaches would let it come to that.

But then, that's just my humble opinion. :smile:

 

[talloola]

There are players in the hall of fame for doing what Torres did.

and also, just take a look at 'rockim sockem' for many years, full of legal hits, that are now
illegal, scott stevens was the king of open ice hits, that he would be suspended for today.

todays game is so much faster, players so much bigger, that is why the hits are bigger, in some
cases, and I see attempts to correct that problem, but it won't happen overnight.

Torres hit seabrook very hard, not a direct head shot, and not elbows flying, or arms up, but the
shoulder did rise during the hit and into his head area, but the volocity of the skating, and the
impact of the hit is immense, but apparantly there is some rule about hits behind the net that
make the decision different than in other parts of the rink, 'don't really know the details', and
when seabrook was asked today about that rule he didn't know anything about it, so they have to
find out, learn, and the NHL has to become more consistent.

There is improvement, I see it, because the majority of players are more aware of their speed when
coming in behind another player, or into the boards, but in this game, there will 'always' be injuries,
that cannot be stopped, it is tough physical game, body checking, and if anyone thinks that injuries
can be stopped, they are mistaken.

I do not want to 'ever' see hits taken out of the game, it is a big part of the game.

 

[Kreskin]

Apparently Stevens would not be suspended for most of those hits, as I heard someone point out yesterday. Most of the issue is lateral forward against forward.

Players aren't much bigger. They aren't held up anymore, that's why they can throw their weight around all over the ice.

 

[TenPenny]

in this game, there will 'always' be injuries,
that cannot be stopped, it is tough physical game, body checking, and if anyone thinks that injuries
can be stopped, they are mistaken.

I do not want to 'ever' see hits taken out of the game, it is a big part of the game.

I don't think anyone wants to see hits taken out of the game, but when you have even Don Cherry wanting the hits to the head removed, you've got to think there's a problem.

It's not hits we need taken out, it's the attempts to end a players career or life that need to be removed.