Hopelessly Enslaved by Democracy

[I think not]

Re: RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

I think I already said Marxism is political and Socialism is economical.

Then you went back and tried to compare capitalism to Marxism anyway.

I asked if capitalism has been applied to its strict definition, is that comparing?

Where has capitalism been tried? The US?

The US, yes...but also in many smaller countries where the US, IMF, and World Bank forced open capitalism onto them. Those are places like Argentina. It's happened in Africa and South America and people have died from it. We've seen where those policies lead.

Haven't people died under other systems as well?

My Derry, you're beginning to sound more and more like Rev as your posts increase coincidence? :roll:

 

[I think not]

Yes you have already mentioned the 30 or 31 canadian soldiers that went to Iraq. But you still fail to address what walrus said. It appears walrus was one of those soldiers. I am going to re-post his post here, and I would like it if you would address what he has written. I think its important that we understand. So after reading it, I would appreciate your comments.

Walrus posted this:
As one of the people who is complicit in the allegations made in the article about Canada's attack on iraq, I feel compelled to respond.

The article is full of deliberate distortions made in order to amplify Canada's participation and deceive the public.

I'll deal with the allegations that directly involve me.

First, Canadian ships that were in the Gulf were there as participants in the Maritime Interdiction Force, enforcing the UN sanctions against Iraq (which were still in force) and interdicting the possible movement of Al-Qaeda and Taliban fugitives from Pakistan to Oman (under another UN resolution) - not escorting American forces in their attack on Iraq. At least one Canadian vessel has been part of this force since 1990.

The Canadian personnel manning the AWACS were monitoring air traffic over the Gulf in support of the MIF as part of the UN resolutions against Iraq - again we have been participating since 1990.

Canadian officers in Doha were there in support of the MIF not the American invasion and had no direct contact with the invasion forces.

American planes overflying Canada have been doing so since the Second World War and continue to do so as part of our NATO obligations.

Canadian troops going to Afghanistan did so as part of our commitment to the UN - long before the Americans decided to invade Iraq - what the Americans decide to do with their troops that leave there is their concern, not ours.

The Canadian troops who were serving on exchange programs were doing so as part of an ongoing program and is our only direct involvement in the attack.
-----

Canada's most questionable involvement relates to the capture of Al-Qaeda and Taliban operatives by JTF2 in Afghanistan and the seizure of suspected Taliban or Al-Qaeda operatives by HMCS Algonquin: All of these people were turned over to American authorities and there is no record that I know of of their fates.
----

As far as the rest of the article goes, after reading the distortions with regard to the events I have personal contact in I have no doubt that the author is using the same techniques to distort the other allegations that he makes - all in order to promote his anti-war message.

As I said before peapod, he may have been with those soldiers as part of operation Apollo and not those in Iraq. Follow link:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2003/03/27/cdnsoldiers030327.html

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

I went to school with him...we used to smoke dope before English class. Maybe it's that Saskatchewan accent. He's in a land where the internet is all dial-up this weekend though.

I asked if capitalism has been applied to its strict definition, is that comparing?

I asked if capitalism has been applied to its strict definition, is that comparing?

Haven't people died under other systems as well?

Yup. That's how you can tell a system isn't working.

 

[Said1]

As I said before peapod, he may have been with those soldiers as part of operation Apollo and not those in Iraq. Follow link:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2003/03/27/cdnsoldiers030327.html

Can't you find an updated link detailing their activities? Do you want me to find one for you? I will, it would be no trouble at all?

 

[I think not]

As I said before peapod, he may have been with those soldiers as part of operation Apollo and not those in Iraq. Follow link:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2003/03/27/cdnsoldiers030327.html

Can't you find an updated link detailing their activities? Do you want me to find one for you? I will, it would be no trouble at all?

Sure, be my guest. You think it will make any difference?

 

[Said1]

As I said before peapod, he may have been with those soldiers as part of operation Apollo and not those in Iraq. Follow link:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2003/03/27/cdnsoldiers030327.html

Can't you find an updated link detailing their activities? Do you want me to find one for you? I will, it would be no trouble at all?

Sure, be my guest. You think it will make any difference?

The article is a little vauge when it comes to details, I thought you were intersted in what they were doing. The simple fact that they were there means nothing, what they were doing while the bombs dropped on Baghdad is another story, wouldn't you say?

 

[I think not]

Yes I would say, however an excerpt from the article:

Prime Minister Chrétien says Canada isn't at war with Iraq. But he conceded that some Canadian soldiers could be with U.S. and British troops inside the country. "It's possible," he said, "but they are not in combat roles."

But Lieut.-Col. Ronnie McCourt told CBC News, in an interview at command headquarters in Doha, Qatar, that some Canadians are on the front lines.

"They are in combat," he said, "and there's always a risk there."

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

I went to school with him...we used to smoke dope before English class. Maybe it's that Saskatchewan accent. He's in a land where the internet is all dial-up this weekend though.

I asked if capitalism has been applied to its strict definition, is that comparing?

I asked if capitalism has been applied to its strict definition, is that comparing?

Haven't people died under other systems as well?

Yup. That's how you can tell a system isn't working.

Well then I suppose no system is viable

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

At its extreme, no system is viable.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

At its extreme, no system is viable.

Well dam something we agree on.

 

[Said1]

Yes I would say, however an excerpt from the article:

Prime Minister Chrétien says Canada isn't at war with Iraq. But he conceded that some Canadian soldiers could be with U.S. and British troops inside the country. "It's possible," he said, "but they are not in combat roles."

But Lieut.-Col. Ronnie McCourt told CBC News, in an interview at command headquarters in Doha, Qatar, that some Canadians are on the front lines.

"They are in combat," he said, "and there's always a risk there."

That still doesn't really prove anything, only that they were close to the front lines, and at risk. It doesn't mean they were armed, observers have tended not to be in the past.

 

[I think not]

Said1, it does say "They are in combat" doesn't it? How else would you interpret it?

 

[Said1]

Try these links, you might find something interesting there, or at the website index. The following are just snips from both documents.

http://www.vcds.forces.gc.ca/dgsp/pubs/rep-pub/ddm/rpp/rpp05-06/sec5a_e.asp#6



United Nations Assistance Mission in Iraq (UNAMI): Operation IOLAUS

UNAMI was established in August 2004 to assist the Iraqi Government in the formation of institutions for representative government. Following a request from the UN, the Government of Canada has agreed to provide an assistant military advisor for the UNSRSG for one year. The present CF contribution is expected to remain stable with one Lieutenant-Colonel who will advise the SRSG on all military matters affecting the UN, including security sector reform, the disarmament and reintegration process and elections. He will also act as a liaison between the UN, coalition forces and the Government of Iraq and its armed forces.



http://www.cds.forces.gc.ca/pubs/anrpt2004/part2-international_e.asp

The Campaign Against Terrorism
In southwest Asia, forces assigned to Operation APOLLO (our contribution to the international campaign against terrorism from October 2001 to October 2003) were repatriated as we made the transition to Operation ATHENA in Afghanistan. Canada continues to deploy forces in support of the US-led campaign against terrorism, having had warships in the region almost continuously since October 2001. Under Operation ALTAIR, one Canadian warship is committed periodically to the US-led coalition fleet in the Persian Gulf (Operation ENDURING FREEDOM). Similarly, air operations continue apace in this theatre of operations. The maritime patrol detachment was repatriated when its operations were completed in June 2003, but the tactical airlift detachment supporting Operation APOLLO was transferred to Operation ATHENA, and remains in the Gulf region to support Task Force Kabul in Afghanistan.

[/url]

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: Hopelessly Enslaved b

Whether they are armed or not though, the fact is that they are not under the command of the Canadian government. They are there on an exchange program.

I think that program should have been ended no matter what kind of threats the US was making, but the position they are in is a lot different than Canadian troops being sent en masse by the Canadian government.

 

[Said1]

Said1, it does say "They are in combat" doesn't it? How else would you interpret it?

They are in the middle of combat yes, but so are the civilians.

 

[I think not]

I don't get you two really, the CBC allegedly uncovered the story and you're making excuses. This isn't a post or link that I created. What exactly is the dispute here? If you don't wish to believe it, then its your choice.

 

[Said1]

I don't get you two really, the CBC allegedly uncovered the story and you're making excuses. This isn't a post or link that I created. What exactly is the dispute here? If you don't wish to believe it, then its your choice.

You are the one who can not produce anything outlining exactly what they were doing there other than the fact that they were there. YOU insist they were fighting, we say they were there, but part of other programs and not armed and fighting. No one is denying they were there. What's so hard to get?

 

[I think not]

I said they participated, this is how the conversation began. If you don't want to accept it, good on you. It doesn't surprise me honestly at all.

 

[Said1]

I said they participated, this is how the conversation began. If you don't want to accept it, good on you. It doesn't surprise me honestly at all.

How am I not accepting it? I've never denied they wern't there. Your stupidity is beginning not to surpise me at all, honestly.

 

[I think not]

I said they participated, this is how the conversation began. If you don't want to accept it, good on you. It doesn't surprise me honestly at all.

How am I not accepting it? I've never denied they wern't there. Your stupidity is beginning not to surpise me at all, honestly.

You have any arguments to make said1 other than personal attacks?