Hope in Iraq

Hank C Cheyenne

Electoral Member
Sep 17, 2005
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Calgary, Alberta.
Eight killed in U.S. offensive launched against Al-Qaida insurgents in Iraq
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at 19:32 on October 1, 2005, EST.
By MOHAMMED BARAKAT

QAIM, Iraq (AP) - About 1,000 U.S. troops, backed by attack helicopters and tanks, swept into a village near the Syrian border Saturday in a new offensive aimed at rooting out al-Qaida militants and stemming violence that has shaken Iraq ahead of a crucial vote on a new constitution.

Missiles fired by helicopters struck cars, sending plumes of smoke into the sky as the force moved into Sadah, residents said. In the evening, marines clashed in the streets with insurgents, and a Humvee was seen burning, they said.

Eight militants were killed in the day's fighting, the military said in a statement. In one clash, insurgents pulled up in vehicles, got out and opened fire on U.S. troops; the subsequent battle left four gunmen dead. The military said there were no U.S. casualties in the assault's first day.

The U.S. military said "al-Qaida in Iraq", the country's most prominent militant group behind a wave of suicide bombings, had taken control of Sadah. Foreign fighters were using it as a way station as they enter from Syria to join the insurgency, the military said.

The assault was the fourth large U.S. offensive in the border area since May. But militants who run rampant in large parts of western Iraq have proven difficult to drive out, moving back in to towns after the assaults are over and the bulk of troops withdraw.

Al-Qaida and other waged a stepped-up campaign of violence, killing at least 205 peopleSunni-led insurgents have this week in an attempt to wreck the upcoming Oct. 15 referendum on the constitution, a vital step in Iraq's political process.

Iraq's Sunni Arab minority opposes the draft charter, fearing it will split Iraq and consecrate Shiite and Kurdish domination.

Al-Qaida's group in Iraq has on April 28, suicide bombers have killed at least 1,345 people, according to an Associated Press count.declared "all-out war" on Shiites. Since a Shiite-majority government took power in Iraq
 

Hank C Cheyenne

Electoral Member
Sep 17, 2005
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.....its always good when the army pounds the militants and none of coalition troops get killed..... its still a long way to go but good news like this is refreshing.... especially with the constitutional vote comming up....

one aspect that bothers me is that the Sunni minority population seems to be trying to undermine the constitution....the Sunni population seems to want to undermine the constitution because they are a minority and will not rule under the new Iraq....... but democracy has to prevail.
..... its is also interensting that the Sunni population had teh most power when Saddam Hussein was in power........some things are hard to let go of even if for the good of the majority.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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How may women and children killed in this offensive, Hank? How many of them were shipped off to detention centres to be raped? How DU was spread around the ground? Did the US use napalm, a banned weapon, again?
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Eight killed in U.S. offensive launched against Al-Qaida insurgents in Iraq


and this gives ya "hope" ???? -Hank??? (a tad sadistic, ain't it?? and particularly in an invasion that should never have happened) Has anyone ever considered the situation in reverse??? Would amerikans fighting an invader be called "insurgents" or would they be simply defending their country??? If you can tell us just who these 'insurgents" are.......ready to listen.

what makes it all even more wicked.......is that Iraq posed NO damned danger to the US and had nothing to do with 9-11. Most of the terrorists of 9-11 were Saudis............and yet Saudi Arabia is virtually unscathed.

there is far too much that is NOT reported to gauge a proper assessment of what is REALLY going on in Iraq. and the bush regime has the media/press by the short hairs.......so it cannot report truths..
 

Ten Packs

Council Member
Nov 21, 2004
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8 militants down - and nearly one hundred innocents dead in bombings north of Baghdad.

Yeah, this is working REAL well....
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Hank C Cheyenne said:
8 militants down - and nearly one hundred innocents dead in bombings north of Baghdad.

Yeah, this is working REAL well....
well hey... who knows how many more innocent civilians would of been killed if these 8 terrorists were still alive? Now they are in hell and can't kill anyone else.


ASSUMING the ones killed were "terrorists" aren't you??? Seems they were "insurgents". How do you get "terrorists" out of that???
 

JomZ

Electoral Member
Aug 18, 2005
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Reentering the Fray at CC.net
Too add to what Rev said:

How may women and children killed in this offensive, Hank? How many of them were shipped off to detention centres to be raped?

We don't know how bad this battle was. For 1000 U.S. (Not coalition, nor Iraqi National Guard) troops, backed by helicopters and tanks entering a combat zone and killing only 8 is highly unlikely.

We also don't know:
How many insurgents (a.k.a. Militants, Terrorists, Freedom fighters, Rebels, or whatever the name of the week is) were wounded or captured?

How many civilians killed, maimed, or injured?

How many U.S. troops were wounded?

well hey... who knows how many more innocent civilians would of been killed if these 8 terrorists were still alive? Now they are in hell and can't kill anyone else.

Are they terrorists or insurgents. There is a difference:

A Terrorist is:
One who systematically uses terror especially as a means of coercion

An Insurgent is:
1 : a person who revolts against civil authority or an established government; especially : a rebel not recognized as a belligerent
2 : one who acts contrary to the policies and decisions of one's own political party

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Also how many more insurgents/rebels will be born because their town was smashed by U.S. military might. I don't know about you but if a foreign invader entered my city, and destroyed it. I'd be more sympathetic to the insurgency.

The use of military force is one that must be carefully utilized. This event maybe the catalyst for more attacks on civilians, Iraqi police, or maybe a renewal of heavy conflict with U.S. troops.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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I don't know about you but if a foreign invader entered my city, and destroyed it. I'd be more sympathetic to the insurgency.

so would I. ANd this is the very excellent point , that most warmongers refuse to acknowledge or address. In their minds , it is all about "themselves" and "their wins" etc. and whoever "they " define to be the "enemy " of the day. (whether there really is an enemy or not...or what type it might be)

The USR has blurred a terrorist attack.....with a military invasion..( they attacked us).... in order to follow up on other political agendas they had in mind. Yet these acts are totally different ...in substance, content , and definition.
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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Only a complete and utter idiot, devoid of any semblence of reason could think that the US can possibly win a war of attrition against the insurgents...what you are praising Hank, is a huge part of the problem, no where near any sort of solution...get your head out of your ass and think for a feckin' change... :?
 

Hank C Cheyenne

Electoral Member
Sep 17, 2005
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....I am praising the death of these bastards........... they are both insurgents and terrorists.

If someone invaded my country I sure as hell would not go and blow myself up and kill my own people....shit if I knew fellow countrymen who were attacking my own people I would not hesitate to put 2 bullets in their temple.

The vote on the constitution is coming up this month....... and Shiite and Kurdish hopefully will support the new constitution.....the Sunni are the minority yet believe they should control the country solely.

My question to you guys is what if the majority of Shiite and Kurdish people support the constitution but the Sunni keep slaughtering these people? will you then support staying and helping the Majority??????
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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the-brights.net
Re: RE: Hope in Iraq

Hank C Cheyenne said:
If someone invaded my country I sure as hell would not go and blow myself up and kill my own people....shit if I knew fellow countrymen who were attacking my own people I would not hesitate to put 2 bullets in their temple.

Before you say that think about it, and don't be stupid...things are never as black and white as you neocons would like them...

If your country was invaded by a superior army with high tech weaponry, what resistance would you have to offer? You could blow yourself up in the middle of a squad of soldiers and maybe take our a few of them with you, provided you didn't get shot up trying to get close enough...but in the end it would have accomplished nothing...because as I said, that the US can't win a war of attrition against the insurgency, and neither can they win a war of attrition against the US...so fighting them in the streets, while it happens from time to time, would not be the preferred method of attack...

So who do you attack? You attack police, you attack iraqi soldiers and anyone else who is seen to be aiding the occupation...

Then when they've all got their heads down, you attack civilian populations, because that is what will affect change...nothing else will...when the occupying force is seen by the population to be unable to provide security, then the populace will rise up against them...in this case, it will be to cast their vote for someone who has promised to end the occupation and send the US forces packing...

Now, I don't condone the attacking of civilians in any way, but I can see the logic in doing so...
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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....I am praising the death of these bastards........... they are both insurgents and terrorists

and just HOW do you KNOW that for a fact???? ( the neo fascist media told you??)

.......if you were attacked the way Iraq was attacked/invaded .....and for no damned good reason......you don't KNOW for a fact just how you would react.

IF the USR invaded Alberta because they decided Alberta would be a fine addition to their statehood.......(due to its wealth and natural resources ).......one has to suppose that you would be the first one waving a white flag of surrender. .......and taking that further......one would suspect that you would side with the US and kill your fellow Albertans. Again.....that is just one possible reaction....

btw: the fact that you "praise" anyone 's death........speaks volumes about your level of civility./humanity.----or lack of.. How tragic.
 

JomZ

Electoral Member
Aug 18, 2005
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Reentering the Fray at CC.net
Its all so vague, thats what a lot of us do not like about this war. It seems almost surreal that all this is happening.

What is written on that constitution that makes the Sunni's so disenfranchised? What if only 51% of the people support the constitution, that would mean that their are 49% of population who disagree, and yet it is still a majority. Thats not a good sign.

Why does the western media lump all these groups together into one major insurgency. Where they have a command structure and organizational development.

When more likely these are all just factions fighting the U.S. occupation in different ways. Some kill the Iraqi populace who back the invasion, some kidnap foreign and domestic dignitaries and hold them for ransom or execute them, some plant roadside bombs. Some are the Al-Qaida like terrorists, some maybe just don't want their lands occupied. Even Al-Qaida is considered an exagerated organization by western powers.

shit if I knew fellow countrymen who were attacking my own people I would not hesitate to put 2 bullets in their temple.

What if your fellow countrymen were helping the invasion and giving information that killed many other countrymen who formed armed resistance? What if they were profiting from this? would you hesitate then.

We have to be clear on the situation in Iraq, Its not a cut and dry, black and white, good and evil battle. The U.S. is facing a country that has factions, warlords, gangster like organizations, and now foreign guerilla fighters, wach who approach this conflict differently.
 

Hank C Cheyenne

Electoral Member
Sep 17, 2005
403
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Calgary, Alberta.
...if Alberta was dictated by Saddam Hussein I would want the US to come liberate us.

....jsut picture 5 or 10 years from now when there is a democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan & and the countries are safe and prosperous! It will happen, and that is the reason me and many people have voted for Bush. I know he pisses people off but he is there for a reason........why do you think he was reelected? God it makes me soo happy he was reelected..... for you people who put thier nose up at the US will seem like fools in time...
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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why do you think he was reelected?

because he and his goons "fixed" the elections.?......( even tho , "they" either can't or don't want to bother.....to prove it???

heck the last TWO US "elections' have been "suspect"....