I wasn't aware that this was a fund drive. I pay taxes and I make contributions to several charities that I've been giving to for years. I won't be contributing anything but my sympathy in addition to what I'm currently giving.
Homelessness 'chronic' in Canada: study
- Thread starter CBC News
- Start date
I wasn't aware that this was a fund drive. I pay taxes and I make contributions to several charities that I've been giving to for years. I won't be contributing anything but my sympathy in addition to what I'm currently giving.
Juan, then you are doing more than most. Besides, it was not you the post was direct to.
Pangloss
Pangloss
Those are services which I pay taxes for. The government delivers these services in exchange for my generous contribution to their revenues through my [over]taxation. If you are expecting me to help someone who does not want to be helped by contributing more, no thank you. But like I said, if you feel more needs to be done please use your own discression and put your money where your mouth is. Its very easy to sputter the platitudes and get all worked up over something when the money you are demanding being spent is not your own.
Yes, we do let the mentally ill try to live their lives, and yes, it does have bad outcomes sometimes. I, frankly, wouldn't want to see it any other way, since the old systems of institutionalizing anyone who wasn't right in the head lead to massive abuses and problems. I'd rather let them have the chance, let them risk the learning curve of living outside the institution walls, and deal with trying to help them on the streets (which, BTW, doesn't cost as many tax dollars as insitutionalizing them permanently does). Also, mentally ill people who are a danger to themselves or others, can be involuntarily committed. I have a friend who will spend the rest of his life in an institution, much against his will. It happens.
As for the sexually abused kids... there's really not much you can do to prevent molestation. All you can do is deal with the aftermath as best you can. Youth emergency shelters, social services... programs to help rescue these kids off the streets, give them a better life, try to make sure they don't repeat the cycle... that sort of thing.
Look i know it can appear that homeless people are just people who don't want to help themselves....i'm sure there are numbers to prove this aspect of the reality.
but ...there are a huge number of people who due to some factor cannpt help them selves, Doug.
Some just are being crushed from child abuse, others mental conditions, some so down on their luck it pushed them over the edge.
The ole saying walk a mile in their shoes does apply here.
out of site out of mind like it is becomeing for some cities is the worst.
Banning homelessness has got to be the worst of the worst of our society
A thought occurred to me.
I wonder, if one was to compare and contrast the cost of the programs which reach out to the homeless, versus the cost of simply leaving them to their own devices, which would come out as the smarter use of the taxpayer's dollars.
homeless outreach would include things such as shelters, soup kitchens, social services, and employment programs (feel free to add to the list).
simply leaving them increases the need for police patrols and intervention, increases healthcare costs due to malnutrition and exposure, causes increased need for public sanitation work, and negatively impacts business and realestate where the homeless choose to gather.
No matter how you slice it, it ends up costing us. I wonder which costs more, and which is money better spent?
I wonder, if one was to compare and contrast the cost of the programs which reach out to the homeless, versus the cost of simply leaving them to their own devices, which would come out as the smarter use of the taxpayer's dollars.
homeless outreach would include things such as shelters, soup kitchens, social services, and employment programs (feel free to add to the list).
simply leaving them increases the need for police patrols and intervention, increases healthcare costs due to malnutrition and exposure, causes increased need for public sanitation work, and negatively impacts business and realestate where the homeless choose to gather.
No matter how you slice it, it ends up costing us. I wonder which costs more, and which is money better spent?
some friggin people treat their goldfish better than fellow human beings.
Canada could well afford to help and train and medicate if necessary the vast majority of homeless.
Considering what we are spending in foriegn countries cost should not be a factor to aid fellow canadians. Hell some of these people have veterans for parents and grand parents...Think about that for a sec how they would view letting their offspring wallow in the streets due to arcane laws and calous political agendas......
The cost of ignorance is monumental. It is only ignorance that keeps these people out in the cold slowly getting unhealthier. And the ignorance i speak of is on the backs of our society which is made up of all of us.
Maybe before we go too much farther spending more tax dollars on these people, we should find out who is capable of working for a living and who is not. I would much rather see these people given a job even if it was a make work job to earn their living rather than another handout. Sure, we can make a place for them to live and pay them money so they can buy groceries but that does nothing to change the root problem. These people should be working at something that brings in some revenue so it all isn't on the backs of the taxpayer. We already medicate them when needed. Somebody suggested there were over 200,000 homeless out there. How much do you think it will cost to house and feed them?
It's amazing isn't it? It's so nice here that people don't even need a house to live in. Live off the garbage, come and go as you like, enjoy the freebies that come down the pike now and again. And when you get a little peckish round 12 noon, there is always the free lunch. You know, if you fancy the grape, you will find that every day there are passers by, sweet enough of disposition to give you enough change to go grab a bottle of something just to make the day interesting.
Damn this is some kinda country!
Damn this is some kinda country!
The opening post said between 200,000 and 300,000 people in Canada were homeless. Let's call it 250,000/ How much does it cost to house and feed 250,000 people? Say a $150 per month to feed one person and at least that much to house that person. That makes about $75 million. That is a lot to ask of the taxpayers. The opening post also said that there were another million or so who were almost homeless. How long would they stay almost after the first 250,000 got a free ride? This is not the way to go.
Well....you gotta be pretty naive not to spot some rummy look for his next can of lysol.
I don't think it's about free rides, and handouts to rummys, and all the other exuses that keep one cozy from the sheer pain of it all.
It's digusting that in this modern land of infinite wealth we got abused kids falling into worse situations.
I'm no expert but someone has to have some right idea on how to fix this.
what i am about to say is not a gripe.
We give a refuge family about 2200 a month with subsidies.
When they do get settled into a working situation, which contrary to poular belief they will be paying 52% of it back into taxes. New revenue for govt. then their kids will do same and theirs as well.....Paid back...
What about all the money the govt. gives them....lets see.
In ontario 15% goes direct to tax coffers, cause they is gonna spend that dough. Who ever they buy their food off, gonna pay taxes on the profit.The money he saves from that recipient if spent is taxed as well.
So everything down the line is taxed to hell and sort of eventually gets back into govt. coffers.....
It's a huge profit all round.
Ok that kid left to the street what is they gonna really contribute . nothing, maybe keep the cops and courts in a job, the health care system as well......
It all boils down to education, and investing in the future.
I don't think it's about free rides, and handouts to rummys, and all the other exuses that keep one cozy from the sheer pain of it all.
It's digusting that in this modern land of infinite wealth we got abused kids falling into worse situations.
I'm no expert but someone has to have some right idea on how to fix this.
what i am about to say is not a gripe.
We give a refuge family about 2200 a month with subsidies.
When they do get settled into a working situation, which contrary to poular belief they will be paying 52% of it back into taxes. New revenue for govt. then their kids will do same and theirs as well.....Paid back...
What about all the money the govt. gives them....lets see.
In ontario 15% goes direct to tax coffers, cause they is gonna spend that dough. Who ever they buy their food off, gonna pay taxes on the profit.The money he saves from that recipient if spent is taxed as well.
So everything down the line is taxed to hell and sort of eventually gets back into govt. coffers.....
It's a huge profit all round.
Ok that kid left to the street what is they gonna really contribute . nothing, maybe keep the cops and courts in a job, the health care system as well......
It all boils down to education, and investing in the future.
I'm not complaining about the money that is spent from our taxes. I personally just don't want to spend more unless it is something that will get results. I would like to know what percentage of the homeless are abused children. I can't believe they are a large percentage. I know for a fact that a lot of parents don't know where their kids are....kids that are runaways for reasons other than abuse....didn't like school, etc.....kids who wouldn't be homeless if they just went home.
I'm glad you cleared that up Jaun,about complaining. I did sort of get that feeling from you slightly...so thats cool.
And I agree spending money uselessly makes the whole thing worse.
But lets face it, when do govts get it right in the first place....
I don't know the percetage of homeless children , who are from abused backgrounds.
The whole issue of child abuse is growing. i don't know if it has always been this way and amount , maybe today more of it is just being spoke about. More people coming forward with their story. I think in the past, adults got away with more.
There is this sub culture of kid runnaways that bond together and squat and stuff like i said earlier, different backgrounds and different reasons I'm sure.
Now, how many homeless adults were homeless children?
It's really hard for decent people to understand indecent parents, or having a decent parent and one not.
Boy aren't you a cornucopia of assumptions!
No, I don't want us to pay more - but I sure would like us to redirect our spending in better places.
Pangloss
BTW everyone - it isn't "those people" - it's us. Just like the people with cancer or a broken leg are us, or the accused in the witness stand - that's us. Or the schizophrenic eating garbage - that's us.
Quit being so freaking arrogant that you think nothing bad could never happen to you or those you love.
Pangloss
Quit being so freaking arrogant that you think nothing bad could never happen to you or those you love.
Pangloss
Doesn't that come from property taxes anyway? Those who rent don't pay property taxes but a fixed amount attached to regulated year increases applied for by the landlord.
So what services would you redirect from? Perhaps a tuition for grade school? Fees for seeing the doctor? A few more potholes? What services would you cut to avoid increasing tax and finding more money assuming that money will solve this problem?
IRBS:
Grade school tactic: name bread-and-butter public services as if one had to choose between infrastructure and any program you don't like.
The CHMC guaranteeing mortgages for co-ops was not a huge program, but was deeply unpopular with commercial developers, the ones who are now making a bundle from the fact that single family detached homes in Calgary now sell for an average of a half a million dollars.
Co-ops brought a steady supply of housing onto the market and kept prices down.
So, not so much a taxation issue as a serving a powerful political lobby issue.
Anyway, these are technicalities, and they are boring.
If you want the homeless to freeze in the dark, that's your choice. I personally find it much easier to sleep at night knowing that I have done something, and continue to do something to promote social justice - two words I'll bet you never say at the dinner table.
Pangloss
Grade school tactic: name bread-and-butter public services as if one had to choose between infrastructure and any program you don't like.
The CHMC guaranteeing mortgages for co-ops was not a huge program, but was deeply unpopular with commercial developers, the ones who are now making a bundle from the fact that single family detached homes in Calgary now sell for an average of a half a million dollars.
Co-ops brought a steady supply of housing onto the market and kept prices down.
So, not so much a taxation issue as a serving a powerful political lobby issue.
Anyway, these are technicalities, and they are boring.
If you want the homeless to freeze in the dark, that's your choice. I personally find it much easier to sleep at night knowing that I have done something, and continue to do something to promote social justice - two words I'll bet you never say at the dinner table.
Pangloss
The homeless problem goes back a generation and the things we failed to prevent. There is no lack of jobs in Canada but there is less skilled people to do the jobs we need done.
The education system failed to ignite the interest of a younger generation, the big corporations moved the industrial jobs to foreign markets for cheap labour and we failed at job training in a sound economic way.
Many people on the fringe of society gave up about ten years ago and ended up on the streets, and sadly there are thousands only two or three pay cheques away from being homeless themselves.
What Canada needs is a fundamental rethinking of how our society should function and if we do not do something soon, the problem will get much worse.
The education system failed to ignite the interest of a younger generation, the big corporations moved the industrial jobs to foreign markets for cheap labour and we failed at job training in a sound economic way.
Many people on the fringe of society gave up about ten years ago and ended up on the streets, and sadly there are thousands only two or three pay cheques away from being homeless themselves.
What Canada needs is a fundamental rethinking of how our society should function and if we do not do something soon, the problem will get much worse.